Go Back  PPRuNe Forums > Aircrew Forums > Military Aviation
Reload this Page >

Leavey under fire - AGAIN!!

Military Aviation A forum for the professionals who fly military hardware. Also for the backroom boys and girls who support the flying and maintain the equipment, and without whom nothing would ever leave the ground. All armies, navies and air forces of the world equally welcome here.

Leavey under fire - AGAIN!!

Old 3rd Mar 2007, 18:26
  #1 (permalink)  
Thread Starter
 
Join Date: Feb 2007
Location: Somewhere up north
Age: 41
Posts: 7
Leavey under fire - AGAIN!!

Has anyone seen today's Telegraph?
A certain female Herc pilot and comments about her Times article.
A number of named officers speaking out against the article.
Oh dear.................
SeeArSee is offline  
Old 3rd Mar 2007, 19:01
  #2 (permalink)  
I don't own this space under my name. I should have leased it while I still could
 
Join Date: Dec 2002
Location: Lincolnshire
Age: 77
Posts: 16,680
Having met the journalist responsible for that hatchet job I suspect he is trying to commit professional suicide as far as being a defence correspondent is concerned.

He bitched about being kept waiting in the Brize car park and thought he was sufficiently trustworthy not to need an escort.

I wouldn't trust him with the time of the day.

Caz was stitched up so I don't know why he wants to jump on the band waggon.
Pontius Navigator is offline  
Old 3rd Mar 2007, 19:29
  #3 (permalink)  
 
Join Date: Aug 2000
Location: Deciding whether I am retired or unemployed
Posts: 131
Under fire - AGAIN!!

Have I read the same article as you SAS? From the 'Have your say' replies on the electronic version it looks like the majority are in support of the girl.

The journalist did what journalists do, no surprise there. More worrying are the less than circumspect comments of her fellow officers on the hard copy Telegraph; shouldn't they now be looking at their own conduct?

Or are you fishing and have I just taken the bait?
It's Not Working is offline  
Old 3rd Mar 2007, 19:47
  #4 (permalink)  
 
Join Date: Jul 2005
Location: UK
Posts: 10
http://www.telegraph.co.uk/news/main...3.xml#comments


Seems these readers see the article for what it is.

Lets move on....

Do you think we should get rid of QFE???
humour is offline  
Old 3rd Mar 2007, 19:48
  #5 (permalink)  
I don't own this space under my name. I should have leased it while I still could
 
Join Date: Dec 2002
Location: Lincolnshire
Age: 77
Posts: 16,680
INW, certainly there was bait there but I think the fish was the journo that floated the story. It is quite at odds with what he said only 3 days ago. Essentially if you trust us and treat us as professional and human we will . . .

Well IMNSHO he has put military-journo relations back decades.
Pontius Navigator is offline  
Old 3rd Mar 2007, 19:51
  #6 (permalink)  
 
Join Date: Oct 2000
Location: Hook, Hants
Age: 64
Posts: 286
Maybe I'm being exceptionally naive? but there was a time when it was very rare that one was expected to speak to the press and certainly specific details and pictures weren't included. Now I appreciate there's no red threat left and it doesn't really matter if your bio & pic ends up on the wall in No 1 Dherzinsky Sq (pardon the spelling) but, despite the spate of bruising encounters with various journos, our masters seem hell-bent on shoving us in front of a camera at every available opportunity. Maybe this latest episode will convince someone that not all publicity is good publicity? I do find that talking continuously in acronyms usually puts pay to any 'piece to camera' - or just going flying when you're suppposed to be performing! I also find it disturbing when participation becomes mandatory rather than optional - not part of the job spec that I can recall. It doesn't help that the ladies appear to be taking a lot of the recent flak (can't bomb accurately etc etc) - although I suppose equal treatment, irrespective of gender, is the PC norm - and after all, the only aim is to sell papers isn't it?
Mmmmnice is offline  
Old 3rd Mar 2007, 19:54
  #7 (permalink)  
I don't own this space under my name. I should have leased it while I still could
 
Join Date: Dec 2002
Location: Lincolnshire
Age: 77
Posts: 16,680
Mmmmmnice,

You are quite right, things have changed. CAS's priority is now for everyone to be an ambassadore for the Royal Air Force and it is alright to give authorised interviews to the press.
Pontius Navigator is offline  
Old 3rd Mar 2007, 20:05
  #8 (permalink)  
 
Join Date: Jan 2001
Location: Planet Earth
Posts: 103
So does that mean that the "training" received by personnel at the end of the A-Cse is going to change?
gashman is offline  
Old 3rd Mar 2007, 20:24
  #9 (permalink)  
 
Join Date: Aug 2006
Location: England
Posts: 11
More worrying are the less than circumspect comments of her fellow officers on the hard copy Telegraph; shouldn't they now be looking at their own conduct?
The comments attached are lifted from an email that has been doing the rounds on the mil net, amongst all 3 services, since the original article was published (the one I saw even had a one-star comment in it). Clearly somebody has leaked it to a journo for a bit more crab-bashing - glad I deleted it! Guessing there's going to be one or two who will be wishing this was a much longer weekend!!
Barely Restrained is offline  
Old 3rd Mar 2007, 20:43
  #10 (permalink)  
I don't own this space under my name. I should have leased it while I still could
 
Join Date: Dec 2002
Location: Lincolnshire
Age: 77
Posts: 16,680
Gashman, see PM please.
Pontius Navigator is offline  
Old 3rd Mar 2007, 22:12
  #11 (permalink)  
 
Join Date: Apr 2005
Location: an invisible moon
Posts: 59
Just saw the picture in the article. Nice helmet. But the big question is -

Would you?

Controversial Tim is offline  
Old 3rd Mar 2007, 23:07
  #12 (permalink)  
 
Join Date: Feb 2006
Location: East Anglia
Posts: 1,875
CT, stop being a k^*b.

I guess this one will soon disappear as soon as the next minister gets caught with his/her trousers down, its certainly been done to death here and I thought it had faded away.
Kitbag is offline  
Old 4th Mar 2007, 00:14
  #13 (permalink)  
 
Join Date: Jul 2002
Location: States sometimes
Posts: 96
CT,

.......................no brainer!!

GM
Good Mickey is offline  
Old 4th Mar 2007, 10:45
  #14 (permalink)  
 
Join Date: Feb 2001
Location: Under the clouds now
Age: 82
Posts: 2,150
CT, stop being a k^*b.

I guess this one will soon disappear as soon as the next minister gets caught with his/her trousers down, its certainly been done to death here and I thought it had faded away.




How about? "Margaret Beckett forced to give up caravanning for security reasons!"

Last edited by brakedwell; 4th Mar 2007 at 14:09.
brakedwell is online now  
Old 4th Mar 2007, 14:47
  #15 (permalink)  
 
Join Date: Mar 2007
Location: London
Age: 50
Posts: 29
Circumspection please

I don't know Caz Leavey but I have heard that she is a professional C130 pilot.

The words expressed may not be hers, in which case she has the right to demand a retraction from the Sunday Times given the damage they have done to her professional reputation. She could consider a complaint to the Press Complaints Commission.

If the words are hers, she should have used different ones. There is nothing wrong with pointing out that pilots need to have uninterrupted sleep even more than some of the rest of us but she could have said the same thing without belittling the contribution of others in her team.

It's never a good idea to circulate rumours on the work e-mail. The staff officers who did so should have thought twice.

A tour at PJHQ brings you into very close contact with the other two Services and provides realisation of how certain RAF practices are perceived by our sister Services. It does not surprise me that the original e-mail originated from PJHQ, but it should not have been sent and it certainly should not have been forwarded.

The RAF of the future is going to have to be deployed to less secure places than we have been used to in the past and we are all going to have to get more robust at operating in an insecure environment where the Army will not always be around to defend us. We need to understand that we are a team not a collection of individuals and reserve our harsh banter for the bar rather than expose it to the Public.
general all rounder is offline  
Old 4th Mar 2007, 14:57
  #16 (permalink)  
 
Join Date: Mar 2006
Location: wilts
Posts: 1,667
What the hell has it got to do with Sqn Ldr Joanne Campbell the planning officer from PJHQ? And why was she emailing it to other women? Leavey is an officer and a pilot and she should take this on the chin and learn from it. This woman's reputation has been dragged throught the mud, she must feel great about her own side knifing her in the back. Anyone have any s**t on Joanne Campbell?
nigegilb is offline  
Old 4th Mar 2007, 15:07
  #17 (permalink)  
 
Join Date: Aug 1998
Location: England
Posts: 1,871
Actually I think it has a lot to do with all women in the Armed Forces. If Flt Lt Leavey said these things, then I suspect that there will be a lot of people gunning for her, both male and female. Her comments if actually made are at best poor banter and at worst naive. Ms Leavey has done nothing for women in the military and in the RAF in particular.
Roland Pulfrew is offline  
Old 4th Mar 2007, 15:12
  #18 (permalink)  
 
Join Date: Jan 2007
Location: Down South
Posts: 13
Crabs geting it wrong.

Whilst I have some sympathy for those who fall foul of the press, isn't the simple answer not to talk to the ps in the first place. I seem to remember there was an Army pilot who was similarly (although not to the same extent) lambasted for her journalistic efforts about 18 months ago. She was banging on about dodging RPG and SAM to get a Lynx to an SF CTP at BAS PAL.

More TLAS
Chimp Boy is offline  
Old 4th Mar 2007, 15:30
  #19 (permalink)  
 
Join Date: Mar 2004
Location: Turks and Cacos
Posts: 311
It's nice to see that over 90% of the comments on the Telegraph page are positive and the article is taken in the way it was meant.

The moaners on here really are so up themselves it's funny.

PC gone mad!

Full marks to Flt Cas Creasey, She'll do wonders for RAF recruitment.
Posted by Ron Murray on March 4, 2007 1:38 PM
Report this comment
she should keep a diary and write a book it wd be a best seller. (from p.griffiths ex-wren fleet air arm)
Posted by pip griffiths on March 4, 2007 1:36 PM
Report this comment
Full marks to Flt Lt Cas Leavey. She is a credit to the RAF. The publicity will no doubt do wonders for the recruitment figures.
Posted by Ron Murray on March 4, 2007 1:02 PM
Report this comment
I take my hat of to her,she has said nothing detrimenental against the military and only aired her views.
As said in other comments,the high brass should get off thier backsides and experience the conditions that serving personnel live under in Iraq.
All the best to you Fl.Lt.Leavey and I hope that all this blows over and doesn't affect any chances of further promotion. Ex R.A.F.of 25 years service.
Posted by Raymond G.Knight on March 4, 2007 10:26 AM
Report this comment
Sir,
Sorry but we need people with the spirit, humour and courage of Flt Lt Leavey.
The reaction of the “desk flyers” and clerks was so similar to the old “Brylcream Boys” taunts issues by similar small minded and frankly jealous so called colleagues of yester years.
As an old flyer, Flt Lt Leavey, I am very proud of you – the sharp end is always difficult for others to comprehend.

Posted by Gordon Barry on March 4, 2007 10:18 AM
Report this comment
My sergeant always told us that "any bloody fool can be uncomfortable" ... it's a long-standing tradition in expeditionary forces to make yourself as comfortable as possible. A tradition that goes back a few centuries. Helloooo!

Posted by Chris on March 3, 2007 9:51 PM
Report this comment
The lady has something which unfortunately is in short supply today, a sense of humour ! I remember when I was in the "mob", my fellow airmen had a sense of humour which is lacking everywhere today. The British used to be known for their gallows sense of humour, the Australians are right, the Poms now are just a bunch of whingers.
Posted by Phil on March 3, 2007 9:23 PM
Report this comment
Good on Ya Caz. Why shouldn't you tell it how it is? A fresh and relaxed ditty on the realities of life Out of Area. Why are people so uptight about these things - the public have brains and are compassionate. Hierarchy however . . .
Posted by LB on March 3, 2007 9:07 PM
Report this comment
Have the MOD got nothing better to do than critisise a young pilot on active service. May I suggest that they concentrate on providing our service personnel with the best equipment to do the job. And then SUPPORT THEM.
Posted by jeannette Pavey on March 3, 2007 8:06 PM
Report this comment
My daughter is half way through her RAF Officer Training. It is just the sort of thing she would write too - amusing, light hearted and a touch of girlie take on a pretty nasty situation. Well done Flt Lt Leavey, I much enjoyed your article.
Posted by Dru Nicholson on March 3, 2007 5:32 PM
Report this comment
We all try to make ourselves comfortable when on operations and I don't believe any of Flt Lt Leavey's colleagues criticise her for this (I certainly don't). It is her attitude to those around her that is of concern. Without the raft of support personnel: chefs, administrators, technicians, force protection, etc., Flt Lt Leavey would not be able to do her job.
Posted by Andy Stanney on March 3, 2007 5:05 PM
Report this comment
The officers who are complaining about the article a being a bit thin skinned.Possibly jealous? It was a well written article and fairly light in it's comments.This would not have been criticised in the past. I speak as a former serving RAF Officer
Posted by Allan Davies on March 3, 2007 4:19 PM
Report this comment
Nice to see someone maintains some humour in such difficult conditions. Also, if you've never had to exist on MRE's etc in hot and arid climes then just button up-you haven't the faintest!!!
Posted by John RH Hullah on March 3, 2007 3:28 PM
Report this comment
Well done, Flt Lt Leavey.

The lady has style.
Posted by Major John Turner on March 3, 2007 3:25 PM
Report this comment
Rock on, Flt Lt Leavey!

As someone's already mentioned, if the people busily criticising her were in the front line it'd be less disgusting that they let their anally retentive, humourless protests be the ones to actually sully the reputation of the Armed Forces.

Wish there were more sensible, upbeat, honest people like Flt Lt Leavey in the Forces ..maybe we wouldn't have so many cockups if we had!
Posted by susie main on March 3, 2007 3:02 PM
Report this comment
Wind your necks in boys and girls, for goodness sake a little bit of light relief from the horrors of this situation is what is needed. I also detect a little bit of the green eyed monster!!!
Posted by Lisa Allen on March 3, 2007 1:16 PM
Report this comment
Factual and witty commenting are all very well, but with the efficiency of communications and the media, do we really want to wash our dirty laundry so publicaly in front of the enemy we are fighting. Perhaps this would have been better done after hostilities were over.
Posted by Ian K. Pestell on March 3, 2007 12:27 PM
Report this comment
Sounds like the REMFs getting jealous of a front liner stealing a bit of glory, by unconventional means... Good luck to her and all the guys & gals who are in the front line risking their necks for an ungrateful nation and the peacock (Tony BLIAR) throne...
Posted by Tim Payne. on March 3, 2007 12:20 PM
Report this comment
As a serving RAF aircrew officer who flies regular operational missions with female pilots, the type of criticism levelled at this officer winds me up. I suspect that her fiercest critics have never been in the highly dangerous situations that she and all the other crews find themselves in day to day. I have and I know what its like. If her ground crew are "riled" at her comments they need to get out more. As for the senior planning officer... well perhaps not. She's a professional, doing her job in bloody awful circumstances, let her get on with it
Posted by disgusted of Oxfordshire on March 3, 2007 11:45 AM
Report this comment
Having read and re-read your article I can find nothing whatsoever that should cause upset to any of the pampered hierarchy in the MOD.

Perhaps instead of venting their fury at Flt Lt Caz Leavey they could possibly get on with the job of updating the Hercules C130 fuel tanks with foam and prevent any further loss of life in these now ancient aircraft.
Posted by Martyn Dixon on March 3, 2007 11:39 AM
Report this comment
An officer and gentlewoman brave and nice.

Posted by Peter the Rock on March 3, 2007 11:07 AM
Report this comment
I served 12 years as a GD/P and in my time you were not allowed to be as stupid to engage in such 'Press'.
Now one can see the reason!
I have much admiration for female pilots, so this is not a pot-shot at them.
Posted by Captain Bryn Wayt on March 3, 2007 11:05 AM
Report this comment
Calm down dears!!!
Posted by Matt C on March 3, 2007 11:00 AM
Report this comment
Whats the problem here? Other than the reactions
of her seniors, this is a complete non story!
Posted by Peter Harrington on March 3, 2007 9:46 AM
Report this comment
Can you see a problem here, anywhere at all?

A woman committed to the armed services who just
happens to have a healthy take on life in a ghastly
situation that nobody wants.

More power to her.
Posted by Andrew Whitehead on March 3, 2007 9:00 AM
Report this comment
I wish I'd read the Sunday newspaper article it sounds like a fascinating slice of real life. I really can't see why the military are so cross about what she said. It certainly has the ring of truth about it. Aren't we supposed to know that our military personel are human? Everyone knows men in the military enjoy letting off steam, whether through irreverent remarks or whatever, and as long as it doesn't compromise their professionalism that's okay. So what's the problem here? Is it because she's a woman?
Posted by Sandy Mitchell on March 3, 2007 8:33 AM
Report this comment
Well, I have the distinct honor of having helped complete the initial production design of the C130 aircraft and after reading Flight Lt. Leavey's report, I can say it is a delight to have her piloting my pride and joy.
Posted by Waddell Robey on March 3, 2007 8:04 AM
Report this comment
I think those senior officers need to get a life!!
Flt Lt Leavey, provides a humorous and totally harmless account of her days in Iraq, she sounds just the sort of refreshing and brave young woman the service needs instead of the 'fuddy duddies' in charge!!
Ask the TV companies to do a 'Day in the life of' about her duties, they will be fighting over the chance!!

Posted by Martin Hayhurst on March 3, 2007 8:03 AM
Report this comment
There is a saying, which I believe has been current in the military; 'any fool can be uncomfortable'. Your report suggests that Flt. Lt. Leavney does her best to avoid being uncomfortable and her collegues object to that. Are they fools, we should be told?
Posted by Antony Rigby on March 3, 2007 7:51 AM
Report this comment
Can't see what all the fuss is about myself. Good to learn a little bit of the human side of war and how people adapt and derive humour from it. Stop being so sensitive all you others. Humour and improvisation have always been coping mechanisms in times of great stress. She's a woman, that is how it is! Have a laugh!
Posted by Roger Lincoln on March 3, 2007 7:31 AM
Report this comment
Truth at last from an Officer and gentlewoman
Posted by Peter Bysouth on March 3, 2007 4:53 AM
Report this comment
Dear Sirs,
What a hoo hah abot nothing. Might I suggest that the safely posted Squadron Leader, a planning officer get out of her comfortable chair and indulge herself with a few trips into Bahgdad. Then she might have the right to criticise a brave young woman in the front line. Get a life people. Try a few days over here and a few more of those 'infuriated senior officers' would have something more on their mind than the attitude of a pilot flying in a bloody dangerous place. Better a frank female in charge of the lives of hundreds of fighting men than the feerless warriors sending e-mails around the country. She should get a medal you silly buggers.
Posted by Vivian J Phillips on March 3, 2007 4:19 AM
On_The_Top_Bunk is offline  
Old 4th Mar 2007, 18:37
  #20 (permalink)  
I don't own this space under my name. I should have leased it while I still could
 
Join Date: Dec 2002
Location: Lincolnshire
Age: 77
Posts: 16,680
She was stitched. I have that from an impeccable source. The journo in question submitted the article, as requested, to Caz for agreement and amendment. This had been agreed with the editor. The journo then slipped the unauthorised version into the paper. It is not known whether the editor in question realised that the article had not had prior approval.

Now there is every likelihood that TH knew all this but went ahead and published his article too.

Now what was it that TH said about placing more trust in broadsheet journalists?
Pontius Navigator is offline  

Thread Tools
Search this Thread

Contact Us - Archive - Advertising - Cookie Policy - Privacy Statement - Terms of Service - Do Not Sell My Personal Information

Copyright © 2018 MH Sub I, LLC dba Internet Brands. All rights reserved. Use of this site indicates your consent to the Terms of Use.