'Err...can they do that?'
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The subject of the general public and the services reminds me of my physics master for the last couple of years at school.
I bumped into him about three years after I left and we chatted for a couple of minutes, then he asked "what are you doing now Crun ?"
I said, with more than a little pride, "I am a pilot in the Royal Air Force sir."
He snorted and replied "I always said you'd come to no good" and stalked off.
I bumped into him about three years after I left and we chatted for a couple of minutes, then he asked "what are you doing now Crun ?"
I said, with more than a little pride, "I am a pilot in the Royal Air Force sir."
He snorted and replied "I always said you'd come to no good" and stalked off.
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Social Stratification
Having been away for a week or two, I have not been able to follow this discussion. However, it is interesting to hear that civilians without direct experience of the forces either fall into the liberal 'Just say no' group or the deferent 'Are you allowed to do that?' group. However, none of our viewpoints necessarily tell the complete story.
A family friend, whose son is a fast-jet pilot, and is avidly 'air minded' can't get to grips with the fact that not everyone in the RAF is a pilot. This very clever man, now retired from a senior position in a blue-chip company, assumed that only pilots needed DV clearances because only 'pilots do the important jobs!'. Of course, in one sense he is completely correct, but it still demonstrates that even well-informed members of the public haven't got a Scooby as to the activities of the Light Blue in toto. How can we better inform the public? Should the public 'need to know'? Do they care? Would you watch a programme on, say, the activities of staff within DEFRA?
Admittedly, DEFRA staff don't quite put their lives on the line for the benefit of the British public. (unless you are a State Veterinary Inspector) and thereis an intrinsic interest in what HMF do. Perhaps some reality TV programme, with 'real' people showing life on a squadron - Engineers, loggies, scribblies etc as well as the aircrew might help to redress the balance of understanding. Remember the very interesting (and sometimes toe-curlingly cringing) series on an RN warship (Brazen?) made about three years ago. The Matelots came across as normal people undertaking extraordinary jobs.
Oh, and because a word is not in the OCD does it mean that it doesn't exist? I am, of course, referring to Distanciation. It is an imutable rule of Globalisation writers to invent new words. Globality is another one...
A family friend, whose son is a fast-jet pilot, and is avidly 'air minded' can't get to grips with the fact that not everyone in the RAF is a pilot. This very clever man, now retired from a senior position in a blue-chip company, assumed that only pilots needed DV clearances because only 'pilots do the important jobs!'. Of course, in one sense he is completely correct, but it still demonstrates that even well-informed members of the public haven't got a Scooby as to the activities of the Light Blue in toto. How can we better inform the public? Should the public 'need to know'? Do they care? Would you watch a programme on, say, the activities of staff within DEFRA?
Admittedly, DEFRA staff don't quite put their lives on the line for the benefit of the British public. (unless you are a State Veterinary Inspector) and thereis an intrinsic interest in what HMF do. Perhaps some reality TV programme, with 'real' people showing life on a squadron - Engineers, loggies, scribblies etc as well as the aircrew might help to redress the balance of understanding. Remember the very interesting (and sometimes toe-curlingly cringing) series on an RN warship (Brazen?) made about three years ago. The Matelots came across as normal people undertaking extraordinary jobs.
Oh, and because a word is not in the OCD does it mean that it doesn't exist? I am, of course, referring to Distanciation. It is an imutable rule of Globalisation writers to invent new words. Globality is another one...
Last edited by Cumbrian Fell; 23rd Jan 2007 at 16:39. Reason: to avoid a purple battle!
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Mr C
"s0d that! I have to tell people that just because I'm in the RAF, I don't fly aircraft! The shame of it - to think, I worked quite hard at school as well."
I am struggling to see the correlation with working hard at school and the Supply Branch, can you please enlighten me
"s0d that! I have to tell people that just because I'm in the RAF, I don't fly aircraft! The shame of it - to think, I worked quite hard at school as well."
I am struggling to see the correlation with working hard at school and the Supply Branch, can you please enlighten me
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[QUOTE][Perhaps some reality TV programme, with 'real' people showing life on a squadron - Engineers, loggies, scribblies etc as well as the aircrew might help to redress the balance of understanding. /QUOTE]
In 1998-9 I was engaged by the BBC to assist in making a series of the programme Airshow. The main thrust of that series was to outline that capabilities of UK air power. Big day-long meet at Beeb HQ with reps from RAF, FAA and AAC. Outlines of what we wanted to do were presented and we worked out a reasonable, doable, series-plan and overall scenario.
Everybody, from Wg Cdr level on down was helpful in the extreme, in all three Services. As for the RAF, everybody from Wg Cdr on up got increasingly blunt and anal. One Gp Capt (who ISTR wrote a series of boring air power lectures for Air Clues) insisted we wrote the script using AP3000 terminology, which the audience would not have understood. In the end we had to ignore him as he disappeared in a vortex of his own memos.
Restrictions on cameras in cockpits were rife, even after beng shown the latest in mini-cams (size and weight of a Biro, with a lead to a digital recorder about the size of a Walkman) not ideal, picture quality wise but entirely adequate for a couple of minutes footage. But no, The Rules, probably written in the 1960s, were dusted off and they said that any cockpit mounted cameras had to be trialled by Boscombe.
In short, the RAF made it so difficult, while the FAA and AAC made it so easy that the producer had a very difficult time in maintaining a fair tri-Service balance. The 20 or so folk who worked on that series will now be senior camera/sound men, assistant producers or a producers in their own right. They will remember the weekly grief and like as not, will never want to repeat it.
To the layman, the RAF has everything it needs, in spades, to make an exciting TV show. The PR org at MoD kills it stone dead. Splinter in your finger TV ad anyone?
Otherwise Cumbrian, good idea.
In 1998-9 I was engaged by the BBC to assist in making a series of the programme Airshow. The main thrust of that series was to outline that capabilities of UK air power. Big day-long meet at Beeb HQ with reps from RAF, FAA and AAC. Outlines of what we wanted to do were presented and we worked out a reasonable, doable, series-plan and overall scenario.
Everybody, from Wg Cdr level on down was helpful in the extreme, in all three Services. As for the RAF, everybody from Wg Cdr on up got increasingly blunt and anal. One Gp Capt (who ISTR wrote a series of boring air power lectures for Air Clues) insisted we wrote the script using AP3000 terminology, which the audience would not have understood. In the end we had to ignore him as he disappeared in a vortex of his own memos.
Restrictions on cameras in cockpits were rife, even after beng shown the latest in mini-cams (size and weight of a Biro, with a lead to a digital recorder about the size of a Walkman) not ideal, picture quality wise but entirely adequate for a couple of minutes footage. But no, The Rules, probably written in the 1960s, were dusted off and they said that any cockpit mounted cameras had to be trialled by Boscombe.
In short, the RAF made it so difficult, while the FAA and AAC made it so easy that the producer had a very difficult time in maintaining a fair tri-Service balance. The 20 or so folk who worked on that series will now be senior camera/sound men, assistant producers or a producers in their own right. They will remember the weekly grief and like as not, will never want to repeat it.
To the layman, the RAF has everything it needs, in spades, to make an exciting TV show. The PR org at MoD kills it stone dead. Splinter in your finger TV ad anyone?
Otherwise Cumbrian, good idea.
Of course it may come down to individuals, but in my (very recent) experience, the RAF are certainly cable of being more cooperative to film and TV people than I could possibly have imagined.
Breaking my own "don't post on pprune" rule,
Phil
Breaking my own "don't post on pprune" rule,
Phil
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Originally Posted by Phil_R
Of course it may come down to individuals, but in my (very recent) experience, the RAF are certainly cable of being more cooperative to film and TV people than I could possibly have imagined.
But no, apparently the show has "had their fare share recently" (I think they mean Lotus vs Apache FOUR years ago and Range Rover vs Chally II) and besides, it only appeals to 18-35 year old heterosexual blokes apparently (totally wrong assumption by MOD, well done chaps) and we don't want any more of them through the AFCO doors
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Why do I find this so depressing?
RAF Brazen...yes, that little West Country establishment, now 'rationalised'. You will note that I have corrected my post, and attributing it to the correct Service.
Gainesy. Thanks for your reply and what depressing reading it makes. Years ago when serving as a young Adjutant in the Marches, an old dear in the village asked to visit the NAAFI shop to buy some NAAFI tea. OC Sy was appoplectic: 'Of course not...could be PIRA...setting a dangerous precedent...what if she falls over...etc etc.' Yes, on occasions it is necessary to be suspicious and cautious (especially wrt flight safety) but, as demonstrated in your post, we are often our own worst enemy.
Oh, and by the way, I took a packet of tea around to this old lady who snatched it out of my hands, didn't say thanks, and was an old ungrateful cow who smelt of wee. OC Sy was probably right to deny her acess to the NAAFI shop!
Gainesy. Thanks for your reply and what depressing reading it makes. Years ago when serving as a young Adjutant in the Marches, an old dear in the village asked to visit the NAAFI shop to buy some NAAFI tea. OC Sy was appoplectic: 'Of course not...could be PIRA...setting a dangerous precedent...what if she falls over...etc etc.' Yes, on occasions it is necessary to be suspicious and cautious (especially wrt flight safety) but, as demonstrated in your post, we are often our own worst enemy.
Oh, and by the way, I took a packet of tea around to this old lady who snatched it out of my hands, didn't say thanks, and was an old ungrateful cow who smelt of wee. OC Sy was probably right to deny her acess to the NAAFI shop!
