1ACC / RAF Kirton in Lindsey / RAF Scampton future
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Kirton to close, Scampton now staying open and expand!
Just heard from a source at Scampton that the new plan (AL 577)is for all at Scampton to dig their heels in and stay there! Not only that but a friendly ATC bod told me that they are planning to move TAC ATC and their STANEVAL team to the site. But that the compromise will be funded by closing Kirton completely. I know the Reds have never been keen on moving to Waddo and that the CRC would cost a fortune to replicate somewhere else so the decision has been made to stay put - one problem though, the Minister has already committed to its clousure!!
I can see the point of closing Kirton but of course there is no money to replicate all of its functions down at Kirton (Officers' Mess, JRM and accom, Range, Dental Centre, Fuel Pumps, MTMS etc). So my question is does anyone know if money will be found for this or will it just be a lot of driving up at down to an already streched Waddo or Cranditz to try to use their facilities. Also isnt half of the patch at Scampton filled with Waddo personnnel anyway, where will they go once they close the Kirton patch?
I can see the point of closing Kirton but of course there is no money to replicate all of its functions down at Kirton (Officers' Mess, JRM and accom, Range, Dental Centre, Fuel Pumps, MTMS etc). So my question is does anyone know if money will be found for this or will it just be a lot of driving up at down to an already streched Waddo or Cranditz to try to use their facilities. Also isnt half of the patch at Scampton filled with Waddo personnnel anyway, where will they go once they close the Kirton patch?
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Ye Gods, what a mess.
Twas ever thus, however, in the AD world. Most of those who had the faintest idea as to how to even find their own arses with both hands and a gundog left years ago.
Twas ever thus, however, in the AD world. Most of those who had the faintest idea as to how to even find their own arses with both hands and a gundog left years ago.
I am sure the CS at the MOD will soon issue a pamphlet, on Fair Trade Paper and in 33 languages (inc Braille), telling us all what is going to happen.
In the meantime, keep whispering behind the bike sheds. It helps to pass the time.
In the meantime, keep whispering behind the bike sheds. It helps to pass the time.
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Official Review/U-turn in Hansard
The Minister for the Armed Forces (Nick Harvey): I wish to inform the House of the latest position regarding the future basing requirements for the RAF acrobatic team (RAFAT) known as the Red Arrows and of the RAF’s air surveillance and control system (ASACS) units.
The previous Administration announced on 21 May 2008, Official Report, columns 23-24WS, that subject to trade union consultation, the RAFAT would in future operate from RAF Waddington, rather than RAF Scampton by 31 July 2011, although they would continue to use the dedicated airspace above RAF Scampton to enable training for their acrobatic displays.
The previous Administration announced on 28 October 2008, Official Report, columns 25-26WS, the relocation of two air surveillance and control system satellite units. Number 1 Air Control Centre at RAF Kirton-in-Lindsey and the Control and Reporting Centre at RAF Scampton, to RAF Coningsby by the end of 2014.
The strategic defence and security review (SDSR) considered a range of constraints on defence basing plans—the available estate, funding provision, plans already in train and the operational commitments of forces. In the light of the changes resulting from the SDSR, and against the background of the budgetary pressures defence faces, I have concluded that it makes sense to review the planned moves of the RAFAT and the control and reporting centre. In the meantime both units remain at RAF Scampton.
No 1 Air Control Centre has now merged and collocated with the Control and Reporting Centre at RAF Scampton and RAF Kirton-in-Lindsey will be closed by the end of March 2012, other than some service families accommodation and a combined mess for personnel at RAF Scampton.
The RAF will now consider future basing options for both the RAFAT and the ASACS units and make recommendations on options to deliver operational effectiveness and value for money. This will include recommendations on whether RAF Scampton should
draw-down by 2014 as previously announced. This work is expected to complete in 2012 and I will report the outcome to Parliament at that time.
Service and civilian personnel at RAF Scampton will be briefed on the progress of this work; we will also engage with the trade union.
The previous Administration announced on 21 May 2008, Official Report, columns 23-24WS, that subject to trade union consultation, the RAFAT would in future operate from RAF Waddington, rather than RAF Scampton by 31 July 2011, although they would continue to use the dedicated airspace above RAF Scampton to enable training for their acrobatic displays.
The previous Administration announced on 28 October 2008, Official Report, columns 25-26WS, the relocation of two air surveillance and control system satellite units. Number 1 Air Control Centre at RAF Kirton-in-Lindsey and the Control and Reporting Centre at RAF Scampton, to RAF Coningsby by the end of 2014.
The strategic defence and security review (SDSR) considered a range of constraints on defence basing plans—the available estate, funding provision, plans already in train and the operational commitments of forces. In the light of the changes resulting from the SDSR, and against the background of the budgetary pressures defence faces, I have concluded that it makes sense to review the planned moves of the RAFAT and the control and reporting centre. In the meantime both units remain at RAF Scampton.
No 1 Air Control Centre has now merged and collocated with the Control and Reporting Centre at RAF Scampton and RAF Kirton-in-Lindsey will be closed by the end of March 2012, other than some service families accommodation and a combined mess for personnel at RAF Scampton.
The RAF will now consider future basing options for both the RAFAT and the ASACS units and make recommendations on options to deliver operational effectiveness and value for money. This will include recommendations on whether RAF Scampton should
draw-down by 2014 as previously announced. This work is expected to complete in 2012 and I will report the outcome to Parliament at that time.
Service and civilian personnel at RAF Scampton will be briefed on the progress of this work; we will also engage with the trade union.
NATO removed the requirement for CRC's to be in bunkers. Boulmer was already having UCMP installed and Buchan was going to shut as soon as Neatishead had UCMP installed. Of course Neatishead also was dammed by having Coltishall shut as well, thus nowhere for any of their personnel to live!
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This isn't a u-turn just another review! I thought the build at Waddo for the Reds was well under-way. One of the problems with keeping Scampton for flying was the £9M (2008 prices) or so needed to refurbish the runway - hardly good vfm for the Reds to use it for about half the year.
Of course the review could just be code for: 'actually Sir Humphrey I don't think we need move these units out of Scampton when we could just delete them instead'!!!!
Of course the review could just be code for: 'actually Sir Humphrey I don't think we need move these units out of Scampton when we could just delete them instead'!!!!
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"RAF acrobatic team" ?????
Did the minister really say that?
So the future RAF display team is to be as circus performers, sans aircraft? The Flying Reds formation trapeze team perhaps?
Did the minister really say that?
So the future RAF display team is to be as circus performers, sans aircraft? The Flying Reds formation trapeze team perhaps?
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If the original study had been undertaken correctly, rather than by someone after early promotion, the right answers may have been deduced. However, it wasn't and they weren't. Still early promotion arrived and he'll now, no doubt, be fighting to keep the place open as the new staish....................
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Wishing too hard!
Do I detect a note of Schadenfreud with the last comment?
The turkey has certainly come home to roost at Scampton: there was never the room at Coningsby to start with!
The turkey has certainly come home to roost at Scampton: there was never the room at Coningsby to start with!
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Wow, took me a while to look up the word. Yr dead right Skippedonce there never was any room at Cy but that's what the hats wanted so that's what the study showed as the best option. If the paper had been drawn up honestly we wouldn't be in this mess and would probably be sat at Leeming by now (the original original answer). It's a shame 1ACC and CRC have merged its ripped the heart out of the latter for what in the long term will only be pennies saved. I don't take satisfaction in his misfortune, after all he got promoted, but I hope he can hear the hundreds of voices saying 'i told you so' ringing loud and clear in his ears. Maybe the next study will be based on fact and honesty mind you.......In the meantime it allows the good humoured mess rivalry between 1ACC and the Reds to continue for a while.
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Request for Enlightenment please
EWOAWOTPMC
Perhaps you could enlighten us mere mortals where that flash of brilliance came from because, to my certain knowledge, the chap that came up with the original plan did not get early promotion and neither did he fight to go to Scampton as the Staish!
Perhaps you could enlighten us mere mortals where that flash of brilliance came from because, to my certain knowledge, the chap that came up with the original plan did not get early promotion and neither did he fight to go to Scampton as the Staish!
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Well Canadian break I can assure you you are incorrect. The original plan had the move to Leeming prior to Scampton. Then in the process yet another study was instigated 'ASACS Basing Study' circa 2008 and this guy was the author of the paper to send us to Cy - which was, and still is, complete nonsense. He was duly promoted and is now the new Staish - fact. I know because, I along with several other Fighter Controllers and mates from other involved branches poo poo'd the whole idea when we were asked for input me old.
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Sorry chaps but you are both wrong - the plan was originally written in 2005/06 - it may well have taken 2 years to percolate through "the system" and other than The Fat Controller the only "gainsayers" were the people (some of, but by no means all) at Waddington who would have had to do some work at Scampton - thus spending a little less time attending to their gardens. So, the bloke that you thought wrote the plan - didn't, because I know who did and where the original draft is!