Gloster Grebe J7530
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Gloster Grebe J7530
Gentlemen,
Among my late fathers personal effects I found a lot of photographs from his RAF service days (1929 to 1946). I found three photographs of Gloster Grebes (at leats I think they are), two of them of the same aircraft, J-7530. The aircraft had crash landed very close to what I think is Eastchurch Primary School on the Isle of Sheppey.
I cannot now remember in any great detail what my father told me about this aircraft. I think the accident was in either 1929 or 1930, and so hopefully will not awaken any unhappy memories for anyone after the passing of so many years.
Can anyone advise me how I might find out more about this aicraft, its pilot, and what happened?
If it is still too soon to make such an enquiry, then please tell me and I'll search no further.
Kind regards
Adrian
Among my late fathers personal effects I found a lot of photographs from his RAF service days (1929 to 1946). I found three photographs of Gloster Grebes (at leats I think they are), two of them of the same aircraft, J-7530. The aircraft had crash landed very close to what I think is Eastchurch Primary School on the Isle of Sheppey.
I cannot now remember in any great detail what my father told me about this aircraft. I think the accident was in either 1929 or 1930, and so hopefully will not awaken any unhappy memories for anyone after the passing of so many years.
Can anyone advise me how I might find out more about this aicraft, its pilot, and what happened?
If it is still too soon to make such an enquiry, then please tell me and I'll search no further.
Kind regards
Adrian
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Try asking on the AH and N forum. Even BEagle wasn't flying in the Vickers Funbus that long ago.
If you have time to scan them they would be of a lot of interest to many Ppruners. A fascinating period to have served (and survived) in the RAF.
If you have time to scan them they would be of a lot of interest to many Ppruners. A fascinating period to have served (and survived) in the RAF.
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Crashed on 10 April 1930, while with 19 Squadron according to an Air Britain publication lurking in our library. Details sparse - simply says 'spun in' and written off charge. The book makes no reference to the fate of the pilot.
You could also try contacting the Air Historical Branch (at Bentley Priory). They hold the record cards for each individual aircraft that has ever served with the RAF; the card will tell you where it was built, to which sqn(s) it was issued and its fate, plus all dates; give them the type and/or serial number and they'll look it up for you The AHB chaps have been very helpful to me in the past when tracking down aircraft records - I was able to give my ex-air gunner neighbour a copy of the card relating to 'his' Lancaster.
As for the pilot, the AHB may well have a record of who was flying it when it crashed; if not, what about trying the local newspaper? It was probably a newsworthy story in its day, and most newspapers have archives that can be researched easily. If you can get a name, you could then write to RAF PMA at Innsworth to get his service record, but IIRC, you need to be a relative for the records to be released.
Hope this helps - let us know what you discover!
As for the pilot, the AHB may well have a record of who was flying it when it crashed; if not, what about trying the local newspaper? It was probably a newsworthy story in its day, and most newspapers have archives that can be researched easily. If you can get a name, you could then write to RAF PMA at Innsworth to get his service record, but IIRC, you need to be a relative for the records to be released.
Hope this helps - let us know what you discover!
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Gentlemen
Thank you all for the very helpful information and kind words.
Interesting that the aircraft was with 19 Squadron, as dad was serving with 29 Squadron at the time. I'll continue with the research and am relieved that I have not caused offence by making the request for information.
I have scanned the pictures, but do not know where I can post them for you all to examine, and advice would be welcomed. I also have many pictures that dad took when he was with 29 Squadron during their time at El Amriya in 1935/36. There are many of various types of aircraft, and one or two that had been bent to various degrees. One that suffers somewhat from camera shake has inscribed on the back "Flight Sgt gives a song during the beer shifting, Christmas Day 1935".
It would take time but I would be very happy to scan the lot if it would be of interest.
Kind regards
Adrian
Thank you all for the very helpful information and kind words.
Interesting that the aircraft was with 19 Squadron, as dad was serving with 29 Squadron at the time. I'll continue with the research and am relieved that I have not caused offence by making the request for information.
I have scanned the pictures, but do not know where I can post them for you all to examine, and advice would be welcomed. I also have many pictures that dad took when he was with 29 Squadron during their time at El Amriya in 1935/36. There are many of various types of aircraft, and one or two that had been bent to various degrees. One that suffers somewhat from camera shake has inscribed on the back "Flight Sgt gives a song during the beer shifting, Christmas Day 1935".
It would take time but I would be very happy to scan the lot if it would be of interest.
Kind regards
Adrian
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I have created a Flickr account, and scans of the two pictures of J7350 can be viewed at
http://www.flickr.com/photos/adrianbeaumont/
Kind regards
Adrian
http://www.flickr.com/photos/adrianbeaumont/
Kind regards
Adrian
Mmmmm. I began to ponder whether or not the Grebe was in front-line service as late as 1930 (one has to do something crawling behind a lorry at 20mph on the A420). And it wasn't. Neither 19 nor 29 were flying the Grebe in 1930, according to Jeff Jefford's RAF Squadrons - they'd moved on to Siskins by then. On top of that, the badge in the photo looks a little like 25 Squadron's. Very odd, until...
Digging out Thetford's Aircraft of the RAF Since 1918, it transpires that J7530 was a Grebe IIIDC, a two-seat dual control trainer. I quote:
"Six of these were flown by No 25 Squadron (J7520, J7530, J7532, J7534, J7536 and J7538) to assist the training of pilots in the skills of formation aerobatics"
So we know the type, but we're now left with the awkward fact that 25 Sqn was also Grebe-less by 1930. Either 25 kept the trainers on charge to continue formation aerobatic practice, or they moved to another unit. And in the photo, the aircraft is lacking 25 Sqn markings (the silver/black bars).
So, where next? Well, another book later, and it appears that the Coastal Defence Co-operation flight was at Eastchurch in 1930, as was the armament and gunnery school. The badge on the tail might be for one of those, perhaps.
It seems, therefore, that as long as the date of loss is correct, the aircraft almost certainly wasn't 19 Squadron's, was possibly with 25 and could well have been with a second-line unit at Eastchurch.
And the photos are splendid, Adrian. They're the sort of thing that get lost very easily over the years, (when they ought to be preserved for posterity), and no-one gets to view them - so please keep posting them!
Digging out Thetford's Aircraft of the RAF Since 1918, it transpires that J7530 was a Grebe IIIDC, a two-seat dual control trainer. I quote:
"Six of these were flown by No 25 Squadron (J7520, J7530, J7532, J7534, J7536 and J7538) to assist the training of pilots in the skills of formation aerobatics"
So we know the type, but we're now left with the awkward fact that 25 Sqn was also Grebe-less by 1930. Either 25 kept the trainers on charge to continue formation aerobatic practice, or they moved to another unit. And in the photo, the aircraft is lacking 25 Sqn markings (the silver/black bars).
So, where next? Well, another book later, and it appears that the Coastal Defence Co-operation flight was at Eastchurch in 1930, as was the armament and gunnery school. The badge on the tail might be for one of those, perhaps.
It seems, therefore, that as long as the date of loss is correct, the aircraft almost certainly wasn't 19 Squadron's, was possibly with 25 and could well have been with a second-line unit at Eastchurch.
And the photos are splendid, Adrian. They're the sort of thing that get lost very easily over the years, (when they ought to be preserved for posterity), and no-one gets to view them - so please keep posting them!
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Some great research/investigation by Archimedes, and the photos are superb. There must be loads in attics all over the country, and loads more already junked, but the chance to see these is fantastic.
One of the better uses of the interweb, I'd say.
One of the better uses of the interweb, I'd say.
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Nothing to do with the original thread,but was given a load of photos which I thought had been lost over the years last weekend.Were in my Auntie's loft for the past 24 years as she cleared out my Mum's house when she died.Dad was in Heliopolis and Kabrit with 78 sqn (1944-46).Have two of the AVM's Dakota interior shots.The officers in those days certainly knew how to travel in style,somehow don't think it would be allowed nowadays.
Various shots of Wellingtons,Blenheims and Liberators.
Will post if there is interest.
Various shots of Wellingtons,Blenheims and Liberators.
Will post if there is interest.
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El Amriya
Gentlemen,
The next batch of photos has just been uploaded to Flickr and can be viewed at
http://www.flickr.com/photos/adrianbeaumont/
See a Fleet Air Arm aircraft after a bad landing and also a Handley Page HP42.....
More to come later. Many thanks to Arechimedes for his research.
Adrian
The next batch of photos has just been uploaded to Flickr and can be viewed at
http://www.flickr.com/photos/adrianbeaumont/
See a Fleet Air Arm aircraft after a bad landing and also a Handley Page HP42.....
More to come later. Many thanks to Arechimedes for his research.
Adrian
Adrian,
Thanks for the PM. Did a spot more research today - in the form of going to look again at the book, since these Air Britain works are right much more often than they're wrong, and I had to be certain that I'd read it correctly.
Discovered that if one opened the book a little wider to overcome the slightly over-tight binding, the magic letters 'A&GS' appeared at the edge of the page...
So the Grebe was with the Armament & Gunnery School at Eastchurch when it crashed.
Thanks for the PM. Did a spot more research today - in the form of going to look again at the book, since these Air Britain works are right much more often than they're wrong, and I had to be certain that I'd read it correctly.
Discovered that if one opened the book a little wider to overcome the slightly over-tight binding, the magic letters 'A&GS' appeared at the edge of the page...
So the Grebe was with the Armament & Gunnery School at Eastchurch when it crashed.
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Gloster Grebe
Amazing. My thanks to you Archimedes! It is at least thirty years since my father spoke to me about that aircraft, and he didn't say much at the time. He did say that it had only just missed Eastchurch Primary School, which I must presume is the building in one of the pictures. Dad had done his initial training at RAF Uxbridge (not long after Aircraftman Shaw was there) and thence to RAF Manston for technical training where he cam top out of 200 airmen. From there he went to Eastchurch early in 1930, I suspect not long before the crash of J7530.
I added more pictures yesterday evening, and there are more to come, of 29 Squadron at El Amyra - hope you like them.
Kind regards
Adrian
I added more pictures yesterday evening, and there are more to come, of 29 Squadron at El Amyra - hope you like them.
Kind regards
Adrian
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J7530
I've just checked and found that the accident date for J7530 on 10 April 1930 was a Thursday. Quite a chance therefore that the school was occupied at the time.