Brize Runway
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You're talking my language. Brings back memories of an earlier thread on the state of defence finances. Delete as appropriete: dire/bankrupt.
Funny old thing we have a meeting tomorrow to determine if we will be staying in defence at all. MOD can't afford top advice and services any longer it seems.
Runway lights - just another example. QED
Funny old thing we have a meeting tomorrow to determine if we will be staying in defence at all. MOD can't afford top advice and services any longer it seems.
Runway lights - just another example. QED
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Is this the single runway that makes Brize an eminently more suitable (only one in the country) transport base than any bases with more than one runway then???????
More seriously, if you were referring to 'Bradenstoke International' - I don't see how they could lengthen the runway(s) to anything approaching an acceptable standard when you consider the range/payload limitations the current runways impose on the 'heavier' AT aircraft we have.
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Isn't Brize also ideally located in a slight 'dip' that loves to fill with fog?
Join Date: Feb 2006
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We stood in Base Hangar in awe as you could see the sheared spars, spread main gear, distorted upper skins where the gear had tried to come through the top of the wing, the Lockheed Engineers sent over could not believe it either as the wing was more or less held together by the skins alone on its last circuit.
Needles to say it was judged to be a writeoff, so the MOD rebuilt it.
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Trust me it is stronger than a Tristar............ I was there and witnessed the infamous suposed Autoland when the system was not I believe functioning, what ever happened, the Tristars 80ft bounce and the subsequent short flight followed by the fuel stream pouring out of the ruptured wings as he flew it around circuit to put it down again.
We stood in Base Hangar in awe as you could see the sheared spars, spread main gear, distorted upper skins where the gear had tried to come through the top of the wing, the Lockheed Engineers sent over could not believe it either as the wing was more or less held together by the skins alone on its last circuit.
Needles to say it was judged to be a writeoff, so the MOD rebuilt it.
We stood in Base Hangar in awe as you could see the sheared spars, spread main gear, distorted upper skins where the gear had tried to come through the top of the wing, the Lockheed Engineers sent over could not believe it either as the wing was more or less held together by the skins alone on its last circuit.
Needles to say it was judged to be a writeoff, so the MOD rebuilt it.
How about moving the Tristar Sqn, personnel and families to Akrotiri. Instant morale boost. And they would pick the troops up from the most appropriate airfield in UK as required by the pax load.
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'Cos they'd still make everyone travel via RAF Coach services a minimum of 200 miles to be at the airhead 6 hours before departure so you can wait around with minimal facilities for the jet to be delayed at Cyprus 'cos the things are old and tired. Any guesses how many times the jet would divert into Cyprus on the home trip from the sand pit when you want to see your nearest and dearest in UK?
Join Date: Feb 2006
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Trust me it is stronger than a Tristar............ I was there and witnessed the infamous suposed Autoland when the system was not I believe functioning, what ever happened, the Tristars 80ft bounce and the subsequent short flight followed by the fuel stream pouring out of the ruptured wings as he flew it around circuit to put it down again.
autoland at bzz
Guys,
the Tristar autoland accident at bzz was a long time ago. AFAIR, it was 2 Wg Cdr test pilots who didn't know the autoland system well. There was no way it was going to autoland as the conditions for A/L weren't met by plugging in the autopilots from the visual cct. The initial bounce didn't cause the damage, it was the test pilot who tried to re-land it, pushed the controls forward, the Direct Lift Control removed lots of lift from the wing without changing the attitude and caused the second heavier bounce. The pilot then applied full thrust and flew a visual cct to land, losing 8 tonnes of fuel downwind as I recall.
Because of this, 216 were not ALLOWED to autoland, after all if a Wg Cdr test pilot couldn't do it, how could ordinary line pilots do it ? It's called system knowledge and RTFM. There were certainly some times we could have used the capability, although there were some other issues involved too.
Anyway, I can confess to some 'solid' landings manually ! As I always said, it's to make sure that the wheels spin up and that aquaplaning is minimised <g>
Best wishes to all my old mates at 216 on the TriMotor.
the Tristar autoland accident at bzz was a long time ago. AFAIR, it was 2 Wg Cdr test pilots who didn't know the autoland system well. There was no way it was going to autoland as the conditions for A/L weren't met by plugging in the autopilots from the visual cct. The initial bounce didn't cause the damage, it was the test pilot who tried to re-land it, pushed the controls forward, the Direct Lift Control removed lots of lift from the wing without changing the attitude and caused the second heavier bounce. The pilot then applied full thrust and flew a visual cct to land, losing 8 tonnes of fuel downwind as I recall.
Because of this, 216 were not ALLOWED to autoland, after all if a Wg Cdr test pilot couldn't do it, how could ordinary line pilots do it ? It's called system knowledge and RTFM. There were certainly some times we could have used the capability, although there were some other issues involved too.
Anyway, I can confess to some 'solid' landings manually ! As I always said, it's to make sure that the wheels spin up and that aquaplaning is minimised <g>
Best wishes to all my old mates at 216 on the TriMotor.
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What you need to realise is 216 sqn pilots arent authed to land on full autoland so therefore it stands to reason that any faults that the system may have well not be realised and left to fester and multiply until the fateful day when they decide to show off and test it...
Trouble is, everyone is now scared of autoland (and doesn't understand the difference between autoland and All Weather Ops - you can have the former without the latter), probably so much so that we'll doubtlessly get FSTA without a full Cat 3B clearance!!
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[quote=cornwallis;2993727]I was at BZZ the other day and the standard of ATC was rubbish-two movements at the same time and the atco was flumoxed!![/quote/]
hehehe......I love the ATIS delivered at warp factor three, ffs pilots here not clerk of the court. Mind you not digging too much at Brize I like it there (as a visitor) but that is way off thread so I'll get my coat.
hehehe......I love the ATIS delivered at warp factor three, ffs pilots here not clerk of the court. Mind you not digging too much at Brize I like it there (as a visitor) but that is way off thread so I'll get my coat.
I've lost count of the number of times I've complained about the quality of the ATIS! Not all the time, I hasten to add, just when someone hasn't been taking the ATIS recording task seriously.
The supervisor should attempt to copy it down him/herself every time an assistant re-records the tape. It is supposed to be an information system, not a stupid speed-talking contest.
If you find it's being read too fast, get them to read it out to you at dication speed - or change the tape. If it's really bad, talk to the SFSO.
Speak fast = speak twice!
The supervisor should attempt to copy it down him/herself every time an assistant re-records the tape. It is supposed to be an information system, not a stupid speed-talking contest.
If you find it's being read too fast, get them to read it out to you at dication speed - or change the tape. If it's really bad, talk to the SFSO.
Speak fast = speak twice!
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ATIS, I've always taught people that when recording the ATIS, that you should imagine that you are reading a bedtime story to a backward three year old. That should give the correct pace to the transmission. My only experience of Brize ATC was being stuck there for three weeks while Lyneham's Radar was being replaced. This was many years ago but I have never seen so many miserable people in one place.
Wasn't the Tristar repaired with the wing from 4R-ULD, a Series 100 aircraft that was blown up at Colombo? Or is this just another piece of RAF folklore.
Wasn't the Tristar repaired with the wing from 4R-ULD, a Series 100 aircraft that was blown up at Colombo? Or is this just another piece of RAF folklore.
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Having problems with copying Brize ATIS??? Get down to Al Udeid, there's someone who can not only talk at twice warp speed, but can also make English sound like a foreign language (God bless the spams....). They don't like it much when you tell them it's a bit too fast. Their only job in life is talking on a tape recorder, I didn't have the heart 
repairs
Don't think so, all the 216 Sqn aircraft are -500 series with a different wing. It went to Marshalls at Cambridge for a long time.
My memory (fading, as it is 20 yrs ago) is that the aircraft was in Base Hangar, with a big permanent scaffold around it, for about 15 months.
The a/c concerned has been called various things ever since!
The a/c concerned has been called various things ever since!
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Autoland systems are expensive to keep certified, and are only cleared to operate when landing at airfields with certified radio aids. Since Asi and MPA weren't capable, and they were the Sqn main effort for a long time, the cost of training crews and keeping kit certified seemed a waste of money for the once-in-a-blue-moon time you actually needed autoland...
