Typhoon to get the Mauser
"At a conference last week, Air Vice-Marshal David Walker, the officer
commanding No 1 Group, which includes the Harrier and the newly-forming
Typhoon squadrons, said he had decided to proceed with the Typhoon gun,
buying ammunition, spares and maintenance equipment."
As AOC 1 Gp, Dave Walker will know damn well that HE does not decide to buy ammo, spares and maintenance equipment. This, combined with the "at a conference" bit, makes me think that this is hearsay. The AVM may want the gun to work, but he's too switched on a character to say something stupid like this, especially to the press.
Which leads on to the question... who's the pillock leaking crap to the papers?
commanding No 1 Group, which includes the Harrier and the newly-forming
Typhoon squadrons, said he had decided to proceed with the Typhoon gun,
buying ammunition, spares and maintenance equipment."
As AOC 1 Gp, Dave Walker will know damn well that HE does not decide to buy ammo, spares and maintenance equipment. This, combined with the "at a conference" bit, makes me think that this is hearsay. The AVM may want the gun to work, but he's too switched on a character to say something stupid like this, especially to the press.
Which leads on to the question... who's the pillock leaking crap to the papers?
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To be fair, in the case of the Lightning, the early marks (F1/F1A & F2/F2A) had cannon, but some twit decided to remove them from the F.3/F6, only to have to find a way of putting them back in the F.6 at the expense of badly needed fuel
In the case of the Harrier, and thinking out loud, so excuse this old git of an engineer being not up to speed with current electro-whiz-bang technology, but what about jury rigging a pair of those self contained ex-F4 Gatling centreline pods....one each under a wing pylon....just thinking out loud about the old days of resourcefull adapdation of kit to fit a task.......but I suppose we wouldn't have any of them left in store anywhere now either
In the case of the Harrier, and thinking out loud, so excuse this old git of an engineer being not up to speed with current electro-whiz-bang technology, but what about jury rigging a pair of those self contained ex-F4 Gatling centreline pods....one each under a wing pylon....just thinking out loud about the old days of resourcefull adapdation of kit to fit a task.......but I suppose we wouldn't have any of them left in store anywhere now either
I don't own this space under my name. I should have leased it while I still could
Red Line Entry, I heard the same information from a highly placed source the day before it was printed in the Torygraph. It was at an open source brief. The source also mentioned something else but as that has not surfaced I shall stay stumm.
I always thought a 27 mm Mauser sounded like a very small cat....
Yes, the key to the GAU-8/A's destructive power is the farging big cartridge, which together with the long barrels gives it a hell of a muzzle velocity. The idea was a very flat trajectory and low dispersal. The DU ammo puts that energy into a very small spot on the target, and yes, it's more than most things need. It's really for armor.
Yes, the key to the GAU-8/A's destructive power is the farging big cartridge, which together with the long barrels gives it a hell of a muzzle velocity. The idea was a very flat trajectory and low dispersal. The DU ammo puts that energy into a very small spot on the target, and yes, it's more than most things need. It's really for armor.
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Here is the ammunition, ordered for the Tornado, which will probably be used by the Typhoon.
http://www.rheinmetall-defence.com/i...ang=3&fid=3802
The British armed forces have awarded Rheinmetall a €24 million contract for 244,000 rounds of FAP 27 mm x 145 aircraft ammunition. Earmarked for the Royal Air Force's Tornado fighter aircraft the ammunition will be used for training and combat operations alike. It will be delivered in series during the period 2008-2010.
http://www.rheinmetall-defence.com/i...ang=3&fid=3802
The British armed forces have awarded Rheinmetall a €24 million contract for 244,000 rounds of FAP 27 mm x 145 aircraft ammunition. Earmarked for the Royal Air Force's Tornado fighter aircraft the ammunition will be used for training and combat operations alike. It will be delivered in series during the period 2008-2010.
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Hi,
Wannabe military publications have always told me that depleted uranium ammunition is designed for its ability to throw a lot of kinetic energy at modern armour systems. Probably not what you'd want to throw at lightly- or un-armoured Afghanistan-style bad guys anyway, you'd have thought?
I think the concern with DU is not so much for the recipient but for more or less anyone who happens to be downwind for the next quarter of a million years.
Phil
Wannabe military publications have always told me that depleted uranium ammunition is designed for its ability to throw a lot of kinetic energy at modern armour systems. Probably not what you'd want to throw at lightly- or un-armoured Afghanistan-style bad guys anyway, you'd have thought?
I think the concern with DU is not so much for the recipient but for more or less anyone who happens to be downwind for the next quarter of a million years.
Phil
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Phil R
Good point - not to mention that it is the TOXIC nature of DU in its powdered form (as some of it would end up after impact) that is so worrying long term - by way of comparison, powdered plutonium is THE most TOXIC substance known to man - it is not the radioactivity that is the main problem.
Good point - not to mention that it is the TOXIC nature of DU in its powdered form (as some of it would end up after impact) that is so worrying long term - by way of comparison, powdered plutonium is THE most TOXIC substance known to man - it is not the radioactivity that is the main problem.
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Phil R
Good point - not to mention that it is the TOXIC nature of DU in its powdered form (as some of it would end up after impact) that is so worrying long term - by way of comparison, powdered plutonium is THE most TOXIC substance known to man - it is not the radioactivity that is the main problem.
Good point - not to mention that it is the TOXIC nature of DU in its powdered form (as some of it would end up after impact) that is so worrying long term - by way of comparison, powdered plutonium is THE most TOXIC substance known to man - it is not the radioactivity that is the main problem.
On impact DU burns and combines with oxygen to produce uranium dioxide dust which, as he says, is highly toxic.
The radioactivity will also be a hazard if ingested. The good news is the radioactivity will not be fatal.
You will die of toxic poisioning first.
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Here is the ammunition, ordered for the Tornado, which will probably be used by the Typhoon.
http://www.rheinmetall-defence.com/i...ang=3&fid=3802
The British armed forces have awarded Rheinmetall a €24 million contract for 244,000 rounds of FAP 27 mm x 145 aircraft ammunition. Earmarked for the Royal Air Force's Tornado fighter aircraft the ammunition will be used for training and combat operations alike. It will be delivered in series during the period 2008-2010.
http://www.rheinmetall-defence.com/i...ang=3&fid=3802
The British armed forces have awarded Rheinmetall a €24 million contract for 244,000 rounds of FAP 27 mm x 145 aircraft ammunition. Earmarked for the Royal Air Force's Tornado fighter aircraft the ammunition will be used for training and combat operations alike. It will be delivered in series during the period 2008-2010.
If that was 30mm GAU-8 rounds, that would arm 180 x A-10s for 1 mission each expending a whole drum of which all 180 aircraft would have a total firing time of just 116 seconds between them at the lower rate of fire and just under a minute of firing between them at the high end of rate of fire.
That taking into account that there are how many in Afghanistan and Iraq at the moment. If my maths is up to date (And seriously, i was/am totally **** at it) then that isn't an aweful lot for in-theatre use. But then, it isn't 30mm Avenger rounds, it's 27mm Mauser and how often do the Tonkas expend cannon rounds in training on the Wash ranges and the cold one up north?
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What if...?
IF the Typhoon gets the ammunition. Would it be beyond the spangle-jet's capability to be deployed on Ops in Helmland?
Ex-GR3 pilots embedded: Strafe/CAS ready(ish!).
The taxpayers get some early payback.
Typhoon gets much reqd PR for "utterly useless RAF".
Capability gap filled. (no gun on harrier
).
Short/pcn limited runway no prob (low AUW).
All (Any!) future jets get guns fitted without debate.
Army get extra aircover.
(and able to correctly debate strafing skills?!)
Is this blue-sky thinking or am I way off the mark here...?
Don't mind if I'm wrong, just a thought!
IF the Typhoon gets the ammunition. Would it be beyond the spangle-jet's capability to be deployed on Ops in Helmland?
Ex-GR3 pilots embedded: Strafe/CAS ready(ish!).
The taxpayers get some early payback.
Typhoon gets much reqd PR for "utterly useless RAF".
Capability gap filled. (no gun on harrier
).Short/pcn limited runway no prob (low AUW).
All (Any!) future jets get guns fitted without debate.
Army get extra aircover.
(and able to correctly debate strafing skills?!)Is this blue-sky thinking or am I way off the mark here...?
Don't mind if I'm wrong, just a thought!
Some years back talking to someone involved in the then Eurofighter project, I enquired about the aircrafts' armour. The reply was along the lines of, at the altitudes the aircraft will operate, ground fire (in the form of AAA) would not be a threat. Will the pilots be happy to join their titanium clad collegues down closer to the ground whilst sitting in their composite aircraft?
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The good news is the radioactivity will not be fatal.
(D)U-6 compounds, such as oxides (formed from pyrophoric reactions when a DU round hits it's target, disintegrates and burns), and (D)U-6 fluorides are, however, HIGHLY toxic and very water-soluble.
Tungsten is a good altenative, and is now used in many munition applications. It is more expensive and difficult to manufacture, however.
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Wow! a genuine 4.5 Billion years. I bet you don't get a guarantee with it though. Here's a thought; if you wrapped a DU round in thick PTFE, thus ensuring Uranium Fuoride on impact, would that make it a chemical weapon?
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KE is more efficient than HE as it can be used in training without contaminating the ranges and avoids the need to buy special, training-only, ball.
And the last point? Not a lot and certainly no where near the useage by F15 and F16.
Last edited by Pontius Navigator; 6th Oct 2006 at 17:10. Reason: speel error
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The use of Phalanx or Goalkeeper against Sunburn would be, at best, blind optimism. You're talking about dividing something travelling at M3+ that's around the size of a bus into thousands of large fragments still moving at around the same speed.
The result is that as soon as as the golly on watch blows their whistle and screams SUNBURN you'd be better getting out of your seat sharpish and making for the disengaged side...as you're going swimming regardless.
The result is that as soon as as the golly on watch blows their whistle and screams SUNBURN you'd be better getting out of your seat sharpish and making for the disengaged side...as you're going swimming regardless.
Hi all
Just a point about the ammunition supply for the A-10s gun.The gun fires 70 or so rounds per trigger selection.It doesn't just hose them out until the can is empty.The point about armour is valid, though.Be a bit silly to lose a Typhoon to the modern equivalent of a "10-rupee jezail" and then force the ejected Typhoon pilot to beg for mercy with his goolie chit
regards
TDD
Just a point about the ammunition supply for the A-10s gun.The gun fires 70 or so rounds per trigger selection.It doesn't just hose them out until the can is empty.The point about armour is valid, though.Be a bit silly to lose a Typhoon to the modern equivalent of a "10-rupee jezail" and then force the ejected Typhoon pilot to beg for mercy with his goolie chit
regards
TDD
I don't own this space under my name. I should have leased it while I still could
Why not an FOI request to find the cost of bullets?
Anyway €98 seems cheap when you consider 12 x 28lb Practice Bombs 35 years ago cost £3600.