RAF Historical Property being allowed to waste away...

[RubiC Cube]

Originally Posted by [email protected]

As far as I'm aware none of the former RAF stations now inhabited by the Army were asked for by the Army. As I understand it some politician along with a bunch of civil servants decided to down size the Armed Forces. They also decided to 'draw down' (awful phrase/word) from Germany. That same group of politicals looked around for places to send the units returning from bratty land and spied a load of RAF bases which were going to be closed and made the decision to utilise them, rather than just abandon them. After all, there was nowhere else for the returning units to go to.
So don't go round blaming the Army for 'stealing' all your 'homes'. Blame the people who are the ones guaranteed to shaft all of us - the politicians and mandarins.

As I remember it, in the 70s the RAF were the only ones to close stations as cost savings measures in response to political pressures. But along came the Army to take them over because they were in a lot better condition than most of their bases, so were were the savings for the defence budget?

Similar events have occured in each subsequent round of RAF closures, including RAFG. Remind me of the threat in Europe that requires a presence there now?

[[email protected]]

Exactly my point. The Army didn't turn around and tell Whitehall to shut an RAF base because they wanted it, the base was already closed or scheduled to close.

The threat in Europe that BFG/BAOR was there for has now largely evaporated, hence 'drawdown'. What point exactly are you trying to make?

[scroggs]

The Defence Estate includes a great many historical sites and buildings, and all three services and their major constituent branches are represented. There are examples of unforgivable neglect whichever service's heritage is involved.

I have a glossy publication from the early '80s eulogising the wonderful historical buildings and sites in the then Defence Estate, produced by its then caretaker, the Department of the Environment. The book is full of expansive promises about how such heritage was in good hands and could look forward to a bright future. The truth for many sites has been quite different, sadly.

[LFFC]

Defence Estates

Quite correct. Defence Estates looks after all MOD historic buildings and apparently they now have a 9-point plan of action.

Point 8 is as follows:

8. Disposal of surplus historic buildings

Failure to dispose of, or to re-allocate surplus or under-used historic buildings is a recipe for their uneconomic use, neglect and dilapidation. A firm commitment to the urgent disposal of all buildings for which an appropriate use by a department cannot be found is important if the best return for the taxpayer is to be obtained, and costly repairs avoided.

[lancs]

A quick search of English Heritage's Buildings At Risk register proves quite interesting for the intra-services debate. Using the critera 'RAF' results in 5 properties, 2 for 'Army' and only 1 for 'Navy'. Interestingly, of the five RAF results, 4 are at Biggin Hill.

[REF]

Originally Posted by XL319

RAF bases which are listed can be found on the heritage website. Absolute disgrace IMO

Can you provide a link to this website please?

[XL319]

See above!!!!!!

[soprano54]

Originally Posted by Dundiggin'

So what I want to know is:

Why are the pongoes letting historical ex-RAF land and property waste away and fall into rack and ruin?? For example and there are lots of 'em:

RAF Upavon - 1st Central Flying School in the World! - Have you seen the state of the hangars? These are listed buildings for christ's sake!! What are you doing about RAF heritage??
RAF Abingdon - RAF Para school - now a dump for bloody tanks! Donkey walloping & jogging is now a priority!! WTF!! Motor bikes are banned!!! What about the rally cars?? Tw@ts!
Let's face it you Army wallas are really a bunch of complete self centered Tw@ts or can you tell me that you really care about the RAF/UK history and in fact, co's you ought to..................co's we are really p'ssed off that you are letting our history go to rack and ruin.

Why????

I would love to stay friends but this is stretching the limits somewhat......

What a complete and utter chopper! You have no idea what you are talking about, there is only one organisation you can blame for the sad demise of your history and thats your own. Don't blame the Army! The only 'battle Honour' the RAF celebrate is the BoB on the 15th of Sept as I seem to recall, then answer me this why has your organisation seen it fit to disband front line sqns that actually took part in that conflict?
I for one (Pongo) do care passionatly about our forces history and do get my arse in my hand when such ill informed poeple such as you blame us.
Tell me are you going to blame the Army as well for the sad demise of West Raynham & Coltishall etc!!!

TTTTTTTTTTTTTTTWWWWWWWWWWAAAAAAAAAAATTTTTTTTT

[Wrathmonk]

Soprano

Spot on . Me thinks Dundiggin' doesn't like you chaps in brown and green judging by his other thread on JHC!

Standby for Bentley Priory to become a "Health Club" for the rich and lardy, Uxbridge to be handed over the US Armed Forces (Navy if rumour is correct!). Instead we keep Valley ...

W (not a pongo!)

[Number2]

I was shocked by the state of Gutersloh after the AAC/RLC were there for a few years. They put up fences on the dispersal and then moaned about the RAF when there was no room for the trooping flight to park! Several go-arounds because of grunts running across the threshold when an aircraft was on finals. At least the RLC could park their trucks in straight lines - very important job that.
I made a point of moving a fantastic Battle of Britain portrait from some dark, deserted ante-room to the reception on the day I left!!!

[Dundiggin']

soprano54............tut tut........

I wonder if you would ask the Regiment reader to re-read the post to you so that you may understand it better!!

I didn't mention 'battle honours' at all!! I'm talking about property ie buildings and estate...National heritage which remains yours, mine and the Nation's heritage.

'National' heritage dear boy, things like the first Central Flying School in the World at RAF Upavon formed by Lord Trenchard, RAF Gutersloh Officers Mess with its' bending beam in the tower etc etc.

So get him/her to re-read it to you there's a love

[green granite]

Hmmmmm I think it was Bomber Harris who once said "that to get on in the army one needed to look like a horse, think like a horse and smell like a horse". I note things, in essense, have not changed.







rapidly exits stage left putting on tin hat

[JNo]

Less bases -> less money. The days of having to spread assets out to prevent the Russians from taking them out in a one-er are over. It's the only way we can afford the brilliant future assets of the RAF, like the Typhoon. Oh, hang on a minute

[FRAG7]

Number 2
With reference to Gutersloh, the AAC tried to tell the RLC NOT to use the hangers for vehicles as they would crack the floor. But they took no notice. They tried to tell them it is an active airfield but still they wander onto the runway. They almost turned the tower into an office for the RLC Brigadier, because he wanted to have a nice view, but they were talked out of it. The AAC is the minor unit at Gutersloh and is fighting an uphill battle with the Truckie Ludites all the time.

[JHC Wilton]

Damn those pongoes - just look at what they did to Kenley, Tangmere, Biggin Hill, Manston....

[The Helpful Stacker]

Originally Posted by anotherthing

It was on the 1st April 1918.... longest running April fools joke??

Actually the Royal Air Force came into being on the 2nd January 1918 with the appointment of Trenchard as the RAF's first CAS although it could also be argued that the RAF came into being on the 29th November 1917 when the Air Force (Constitution) Bill, providing for creation of an Air Force and Air Ministry received Royal Assent.

Oggin Aviator,

"In any future conflict it must be recognised that the RAF is the senior service. Today, the effectiveness of air power shows this to be true."

Winston Churchill

The Royal Navy ceased to be the senior service the day captial ships became the ones that a/c flew off rather than the boats with all the big guns.

[South Bound]

Crikey we do all spend lots of time worrying about trivial stuff don't we?

If a building is part of the Nation's heritage, let the Nation fund its upkeep. Base Commanders cannot afford to look after the essential buildings they have (look at the state of the troops' single accommodation), let alone maintain relics for posterity. The Forces, and hence the MoD budget, must be focussed on the future and improving conditions. The Nation must take responsibility for anything of historical interest. To blame another Service for letting our 'heritage' rot is just complete and utter tosh and a waste of a posting on here.

[oldbeefer]

Originally Posted by timex

As far as I can see the AAC have done a very good job of looking after MIddle Wallop, most of the buildings you mention were left by your goodselves to move to greener pastures.

You have GOT to be joking !

[NURSE]

it isn't just the armed forces leting historically important buildings rot fall down or be bulldozed in the name of progress! most Govt departments do it, Local authorities do it and buissness certainly does it. We as a nation haven't got the mentality to adapt buildings the first thought is always build new preferably on a green field. why do you think programmes like restoration are so popular!

[Strictly Jungly]

Originally Posted by The Helpful Stacker

Oggin Aviator,
The Royal Navy ceased to be the senior service the day captial ships became the ones that a/c flew off rather than the boats with all the big guns.

(Un) Helpful Stacker............you really cheer my day up!

For info: A boat in the Royal Navy is a submarine.

By the Way.................We have never ceased to be the Senior Service despite the design changes(or numbers) of our surface fleet.

Theres a good chap.......now scuttle off back to your stores and don't release any to those who need them...............