Foiled airline bomb plan - Well Done!
How many dead/wounded in these retaliation attacks?
Muhammad Abul Kalam from the Muslim Safety Forum said that there was generally an increase in Islamophobic attacks following events such as Thursday's raids, in which 24 people were arrested.
"We simply don't want to see any kind of backlash unleashed against ordinary Muslims because of what has happened."
"We simply don't want to see any kind of backlash unleashed against ordinary Muslims because of what has happened."
Oh, but if "ordinary Muslims" were as concerned about the actions that provoked this mass wave of "Islamophobic" revenge attacks?
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Code of the West
Live each day with courage.
Take pride in your work.
Always finish what you start.
Do what has to be done.
Be tough, but fair.
When you make a promise, keep it.
Ride for the brand.
Talk less and say more.
Remember that some things aren't for sale.
Know where to draw the line.
http://www.elvaquero.com/The_Cowboy_Code.htm
Live each day with courage.
Take pride in your work.
Always finish what you start.
Do what has to be done.
Be tough, but fair.
When you make a promise, keep it.
Ride for the brand.
Talk less and say more.
Remember that some things aren't for sale.
Know where to draw the line.
http://www.elvaquero.com/The_Cowboy_Code.htm
SAS]
What was the cowpoke's definition of a virgin? A girl who could not outrun her brother!
Nevertheless, I admire your values. You probably realise that under Brit criminal law, which harks back constantly to events on the banks of the Thames near Windsor in the 12th Century, Hearsay evidence (eg, obtained from informers) and evidence obtained via electronic intercepts is inadmissable in court. So "the 21" will have to be released after 28 days because all the evidence connecting them with a crime that has not (yet) taken place will be thrown out by a learned judge wearing fancy robes and a wig. And the Jihadists will moan even louder about Islamophobia infecting the police and security services.
One day this country will wake up to the need to bring its criminal justice system into the age of suicidal terrorism. But by then many of us will be dead and the nation will be a Caliphate.
Much like post 9/11, I don’t suppose we will see tens of thousands of law abiding yet outraged Muslims marching through the streets of London with placards denouncing terrorism and the targeting of innocent civilians - thought not.
Originally Posted by foldingwings
TS,
To anybody working in security at LHR etc,
Can you reassure me that, in these rightly tightened security conditions, Muslim women who are swathed in black are subjected to a full garment (under if necessary) check or strip search to ensure that they are 'safe to fly'?
Just curious!
FW
To anybody working in security at LHR etc,
Can you reassure me that, in these rightly tightened security conditions, Muslim women who are swathed in black are subjected to a full garment (under if necessary) check or strip search to ensure that they are 'safe to fly'?
Just curious!
FW
Racial profiling may not be a bad idea, but I guess the PC Brigadiers will always cry foul play.
Flats,
Brothers and Uncle's....afterall if they were not good enough for Kin....who would have them?
Brothers and Uncle's....afterall if they were not good enough for Kin....who would have them?
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Very sensible letter in the Torygraph... to the effect that while clearly not all Muslims are terrorists, at the moment all terrorists appear to be Muslims, so one can hardly blame the police if they save time by investigating the Muslim community first...
Tim
Tim
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Tim,
I saw the letter. Sadly the author didn't attribute the quote, "though not all muslims are terrorists, seemingly all terrorists are muslims".
Attributed to Sir Iqbal Sacranie, head of the Muslim Council of Britain.
I think that this plot, as with so many others, shows what a lamentably, crushingly, dangerously stupid idea "multiculturalism" is. I'm all for tolerating other religions, encouraging community spirit based on the ties that bind people, be they race, home town, sexuality, or whatever. But Britain has A - that is, ONE - culture. It is the culture that teaches us to respect one another, that drives us to fight oppression, that makes us proud of our way of life. It is the culture that defeated Hitler. It is a culture that has its roots in a thousand years of jurisprudence, and that takes its references from Christianity. A culture that didn't need the Human Rights Act to tell it how to treat people with decency and respect. Most of all, a culture that welcomes those who seek refuge from hatred and oppression. That very aspect has been abused and distorted by the politically-correct nonsense of "multiculturalism".
"Multiculturalism" sounded like such a good idea to those who dislike Britain's history, because it presented an opportunity to topple our values and even our continued survival as a unique country. Earlier on, someone mentioned how well West Indian immigrants merged into our culture - that's because they were proud to be British while still being proud of their roots. Multiculturalism encourages some immigrants to refuse to integrate. Sadly, it enables a tiny group of people to reject our way of life so totally that they are willing to destroy everyone, whatever their background.
Those people will not succeed because their values are so utterly detestible that ultimately even their own communities will turn on them. For now, we need to make sure that everyone involved is given the fair trial that their own beliefs deny those who they would kill or maim. The police have done a commendable job here - over a year's worth of evidence. Let's put it to use and get these b@$tards behind bars where they can be treated as the common criminal scum they are.
In the meantime, since Bliar is so keen to "rebalance" the criminal justice system, why doesn't he take a look at the immigration system? Rebalance it so that we are denying asylum to purely economic migrants, instead of denying it to people who will be put to death in Iran or Zimbabwe for being gay or being a free-minded journalist. Since this government is so keen on human rights, stop denying them to people who genuinely need asylum and will be grateful, and stop granting free access to our taxes to people who want asylum and will be ungrateful.
I saw the letter. Sadly the author didn't attribute the quote, "though not all muslims are terrorists, seemingly all terrorists are muslims".
Attributed to Sir Iqbal Sacranie, head of the Muslim Council of Britain.
I think that this plot, as with so many others, shows what a lamentably, crushingly, dangerously stupid idea "multiculturalism" is. I'm all for tolerating other religions, encouraging community spirit based on the ties that bind people, be they race, home town, sexuality, or whatever. But Britain has A - that is, ONE - culture. It is the culture that teaches us to respect one another, that drives us to fight oppression, that makes us proud of our way of life. It is the culture that defeated Hitler. It is a culture that has its roots in a thousand years of jurisprudence, and that takes its references from Christianity. A culture that didn't need the Human Rights Act to tell it how to treat people with decency and respect. Most of all, a culture that welcomes those who seek refuge from hatred and oppression. That very aspect has been abused and distorted by the politically-correct nonsense of "multiculturalism".
"Multiculturalism" sounded like such a good idea to those who dislike Britain's history, because it presented an opportunity to topple our values and even our continued survival as a unique country. Earlier on, someone mentioned how well West Indian immigrants merged into our culture - that's because they were proud to be British while still being proud of their roots. Multiculturalism encourages some immigrants to refuse to integrate. Sadly, it enables a tiny group of people to reject our way of life so totally that they are willing to destroy everyone, whatever their background.
Those people will not succeed because their values are so utterly detestible that ultimately even their own communities will turn on them. For now, we need to make sure that everyone involved is given the fair trial that their own beliefs deny those who they would kill or maim. The police have done a commendable job here - over a year's worth of evidence. Let's put it to use and get these b@$tards behind bars where they can be treated as the common criminal scum they are.
In the meantime, since Bliar is so keen to "rebalance" the criminal justice system, why doesn't he take a look at the immigration system? Rebalance it so that we are denying asylum to purely economic migrants, instead of denying it to people who will be put to death in Iran or Zimbabwe for being gay or being a free-minded journalist. Since this government is so keen on human rights, stop denying them to people who genuinely need asylum and will be grateful, and stop granting free access to our taxes to people who want asylum and will be ungrateful.
Best thing I've read on PPRuNe for ages, Tabs. Succinct, intelligent, passionate and thought provoking. 
I've always thought that we should aspire to being a multi-ethnic but mono-cultural society, assimilated as much as integrated. The only place where we might disagree is that my 'single culture' would not be fixed, and would be adaptable enough to incorporate and reflect the best of the cultures of those we assimilate, while retaining certain core values. Perhaps you feel the same, perhaps not.
But the point that we need to stick to our values in the face of attack is spot on. They must not steamroller us into Gitmos or H-blocks, we must remain what we are, a civilised, liberal, tolerant and humane democracy.
I've always thought that we should aspire to being a multi-ethnic but mono-cultural society, assimilated as much as integrated. The only place where we might disagree is that my 'single culture' would not be fixed, and would be adaptable enough to incorporate and reflect the best of the cultures of those we assimilate, while retaining certain core values. Perhaps you feel the same, perhaps not.
But the point that we need to stick to our values in the face of attack is spot on. They must not steamroller us into Gitmos or H-blocks, we must remain what we are, a civilised, liberal, tolerant and humane democracy.
Jacko,
Seems like a nice thought....how you prepared to defend against the attackers?
It would seem to me, the "liberal" notions is what has gotten us in this pickle. In the USA, we have not had the home grown suicide bombers as you have in the UK. As a society, when one immigrates to America, one does so to be become an "American" and thus seeks to assimilate into the "American" culture. Ours is a society based upon freedom of religion and tolerance for others. We here in the USA do not seem to be having the problems you in the UK are.....why might that be? What are you folks in the UK doing wrong....or what are we doing right here in the USA that you are not in the UK?
Why do the Muslim youth of the UK feel so alienated as to provoke some of them to become suicide bombers?
There must be something that acts to motivate these folks that is missing in the USA as compared to the UK.....what might that be?
Seems like a nice thought....how you prepared to defend against the attackers?
It would seem to me, the "liberal" notions is what has gotten us in this pickle. In the USA, we have not had the home grown suicide bombers as you have in the UK. As a society, when one immigrates to America, one does so to be become an "American" and thus seeks to assimilate into the "American" culture. Ours is a society based upon freedom of religion and tolerance for others. We here in the USA do not seem to be having the problems you in the UK are.....why might that be? What are you folks in the UK doing wrong....or what are we doing right here in the USA that you are not in the UK?
Why do the Muslim youth of the UK feel so alienated as to provoke some of them to become suicide bombers?
There must be something that acts to motivate these folks that is missing in the USA as compared to the UK.....what might that be?
What have we done wrong?
I'd say that we have allowed (even encouraged) a large immigrant group to retain its distinct cultural identity, when elements of that culture are fundamentally incompatible with broader UK society's core beliefs and values.
That group has reinforced its traditional identity by maintaining a constant flow of new blood from the homeland, and by sending many of its young 'home' for religious training and indoctrination.
Because that group has neither assimilated nor even integrated, even second and third generation members of the group do not recognise a British identity.
We've exacerbated the problem by pursuing policies that are perceived as being gratuitously anti-Islamic, forcing members of our Islamic population to 'take sides'.
I'd say that we have allowed (even encouraged) a large immigrant group to retain its distinct cultural identity, when elements of that culture are fundamentally incompatible with broader UK society's core beliefs and values.
That group has reinforced its traditional identity by maintaining a constant flow of new blood from the homeland, and by sending many of its young 'home' for religious training and indoctrination.
Because that group has neither assimilated nor even integrated, even second and third generation members of the group do not recognise a British identity.
We've exacerbated the problem by pursuing policies that are perceived as being gratuitously anti-Islamic, forcing members of our Islamic population to 'take sides'.
Short Blunt Shock
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Why do the Muslim youth of the UK feel so alienated as to provoke some of them to become suicide bombers?
Tablet_Eraser
I have debated separate issues with you in the past, and we haven't seen eye-to-eye! I never thought I'd see myself write this, but your post was absolutely excellent! My hat is being doffed in your direction as we speak.
Terrorism CANNOT exist without communities to support it - a body of people who sympathise with their goals, keep their mouths shut when necessary, even provide 'safe houses' where required (one only has to examine NI to see this). It makes me sick to hear countless muslim 'community leaders' paraded on liberal TV shows, bleating on about 'alienation' of thier community, and how they couldn't possibly know who among them are capable of such acts. The bottom line is, you DO know EXACTLY who is capable of doing this, and you DO NOTHING because, whilst you may disagree with their methods, you sympathise with their aims, and you would never 'grass up' your muslim brothers to the 'evil' unbelievers.
I would point out at this stage the 'standard' response of a muslim who is asked if they comdemn acts of terrorism:
"We comdemn the killing of ALL innocents"
....conveniently failing to point out that no 'non-believer' is considered to be innocent. In the same vein, should we not consider the entire muslim community guilty in the face of home-grown terrorist atrocities, given that there is NO WAY that their community could be totally in the dark as to their activities?
A recent survey showed that over 25% of british muslims sympathised with the 7/7 bombers, and that an even higher number would not report suspicious activity of their 'brethren' to the police. I don't care what spin you put on it, 25% of 2 milllion is ALOT of people.
Yet, indiscrimiate killing of British people is justified because of Tony Blair's stance with the US over Israel - even though only 35% of us voted for him at the last election, and the rest of us hate his guts. If WE are guilty, then SO ARE YOU. Which is it to be?
16B
Before you get too smug, SASless, while this lot don't see themselves as having any loyalty to the UK, and would doubtless attack UK targets if told to do so, the people they really want to hurt are you lot. They might hate us for being complicit in the oppression of other Muslims, and for our decadence, but they reserve their real hatred for the Israelis and for you lot, the Serbs and the Russians.
Jacko,
I am sure there are more than a few Muslims in the good ol' USA, some of them travel back to the homeland, attend religious schools exactly as the UK Muslims do.
Smug I am not. It was a serious question and deserves a serious answer. The UK had the Tube bombings, faced a second round, and now has this latest group of willing Suicide Bombers. The USA has not.
The question remains....simply.... Why so?
We have had our budding terrorists of the home grown variety but not any dedicated enough to enlist in the Suicide Brigade....there must be a reason. Perhaps if we could quantify that to the point we know why that is....perhaps we could head off more converts both in the UK and ultimately the USA.
Detroit, Michigan has the largest Muslim population in the USA and we do not see the problems there as we do in the UK. What is it about our society that prevents this from happening. (At least so far....knock on wood!)
If one thinks it is only the Americans and Israeli's the Fundamentalists hate.....you better grab another cup of coffee....they hate anyone that they consider a non-believer or Infidel. They give a damn one might be the most liberal and apologistic for their conduct.....they still view us all in the same light. Anyone of us could have been aboard one of those airliners....including the Grand Mufti himself and they would carry through on their plot to committ mass murder.
I am sure there are more than a few Muslims in the good ol' USA, some of them travel back to the homeland, attend religious schools exactly as the UK Muslims do.
Smug I am not. It was a serious question and deserves a serious answer. The UK had the Tube bombings, faced a second round, and now has this latest group of willing Suicide Bombers. The USA has not.
The question remains....simply.... Why so?
We have had our budding terrorists of the home grown variety but not any dedicated enough to enlist in the Suicide Brigade....there must be a reason. Perhaps if we could quantify that to the point we know why that is....perhaps we could head off more converts both in the UK and ultimately the USA.
Detroit, Michigan has the largest Muslim population in the USA and we do not see the problems there as we do in the UK. What is it about our society that prevents this from happening. (At least so far....knock on wood!)
If one thinks it is only the Americans and Israeli's the Fundamentalists hate.....you better grab another cup of coffee....they hate anyone that they consider a non-believer or Infidel. They give a damn one might be the most liberal and apologistic for their conduct.....they still view us all in the same light. Anyone of us could have been aboard one of those airliners....including the Grand Mufti himself and they would carry through on their plot to committ mass murder.
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Thanks for the comments. 16B, as you above all others know, I speak as I find!
SASless, I see exactly what you're alluding to, and, going back to my first post, I think it can be attributed to the fact that the majority of immigrants to the US are going there to seek an opportunity to better themselves, knowing that Uncle Sam will not tolerate those who would try to steal from him or poke him in the eye! This is, again, where your great nation has a considerable advantage over Blighty. You never subscribed to the liberal claptrap of "multiculturalism". Those who seek citizenship in the USA must consider themselves American above anything else. Yes, new British citizens swear allegiance to the Queen, and yes, we have a citizenship test. But we still allow new British citizens to consider themselves Pakistani, Indian, Polish, or whatever, BEFORE considering themselves British. I do so hate to agree with Lord Tebbit, but it seems that his generally flawed "Cricket Test" actually holds some truth.
It is impossible to prevent a fractured society if the social policy of the day, "multiculturalism", actively encourages division and difference. Encourage collectivism and diversity by all means, but it is becoming clear that the ghettoisation of muslim communities is starting to have a malevolent effect. What did anyone expect? The clearest lesson of human history is that when two different peoples regard each other with suspicion, terrible things happen. Muslims look at the police with fear and contempt, because the cancer of fundamentalism makes them the number one candidate for suspicion. It's a cycle that will not be broken until we all start to understand and respect our cultural heritage.
The flaw in my own argument - or perhaps, its clinching facet - is called "Chinatown".
I found this very interesting:
Here is a man who has clearly embraced his adopted country. He is the sort of person who should be leading the internal battle against extremism that sadly must take place within the muslim community. It would help if Red Ken would stop inviting grotesque demagogues to spread hatred, too.
Incredible how much effort you can put into a post on a night-shift!
SASless, I see exactly what you're alluding to, and, going back to my first post, I think it can be attributed to the fact that the majority of immigrants to the US are going there to seek an opportunity to better themselves, knowing that Uncle Sam will not tolerate those who would try to steal from him or poke him in the eye! This is, again, where your great nation has a considerable advantage over Blighty. You never subscribed to the liberal claptrap of "multiculturalism". Those who seek citizenship in the USA must consider themselves American above anything else. Yes, new British citizens swear allegiance to the Queen, and yes, we have a citizenship test. But we still allow new British citizens to consider themselves Pakistani, Indian, Polish, or whatever, BEFORE considering themselves British. I do so hate to agree with Lord Tebbit, but it seems that his generally flawed "Cricket Test" actually holds some truth.
It is impossible to prevent a fractured society if the social policy of the day, "multiculturalism", actively encourages division and difference. Encourage collectivism and diversity by all means, but it is becoming clear that the ghettoisation of muslim communities is starting to have a malevolent effect. What did anyone expect? The clearest lesson of human history is that when two different peoples regard each other with suspicion, terrible things happen. Muslims look at the police with fear and contempt, because the cancer of fundamentalism makes them the number one candidate for suspicion. It's a cycle that will not be broken until we all start to understand and respect our cultural heritage.
The flaw in my own argument - or perhaps, its clinching facet - is called "Chinatown".
I found this very interesting:
"I just don't know who would do this kind of thing," said Mr Ullah. "I just cannot understand how anyone could think there is justification for acts against our society, against our community and against our country."
Near to the till in his packed bookshop, Mr Ullah stocks a pamphlet by an Islamic scholar which gives answers to some very pertinent questions: Is bombing and "wreaking havoc" justifiable?
Its 26 pages are dense, hard-going Islamic scripture - but the message is there; these are "shameful acts" that have no justification in Islam.
Near to the till in his packed bookshop, Mr Ullah stocks a pamphlet by an Islamic scholar which gives answers to some very pertinent questions: Is bombing and "wreaking havoc" justifiable?
Its 26 pages are dense, hard-going Islamic scripture - but the message is there; these are "shameful acts" that have no justification in Islam.
Incredible how much effort you can put into a post on a night-shift!
Last edited by tablet_eraser; 12th Aug 2006 at 07:10.
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Despite the spin, Brittan is no longer a multicultural society. When, in the early 50s, Britain went from being the biggest exporter of man power to the biggest importer in the world it started to go wrong. As manpower was moved into the areas where workers were needed most segregation began. In the early day it did not matter so much, most immigrants were from the Empire and where proud of it. Now the Empire is long gone, there is no pride in being 'British' and communities are divided into cultures, religions and nationalities.
Couple this with all the PC garbage, another throw back to the Empire. Gone is the 'white mans burden' and the 'noble savage' attitudes of the past. Forcing a certain way of life on people is now seen as pure evil, mainly out of perceived guilt. Civil liberties, freedom of speech, human rights and many other legal aspects have come into place. These laws/rules allow people to chose there path in life, but who is to say they will chose correctly? There is nothing wrong with expecting (or even forcing) certain standards from people as long as it is one rule for all.
On the subject of immigration, ask yourself why Britain has so many immigrants. Part of it is because we have plenty of (by UK standards) low paid jobs and not enough people are doing them. People know they can make plenty of money with allowances and benefits, why pick strawberries all day? As Sir Humphrey Appleby once said "This country will have as much unemployment as it is prepared to pay for".
If you are happy to pay 20+ pence a kg more for strawberries (and more for all the other products from low paid jobs) then you can complain about immigrants. If you want cheap produce, except why it is cheap and shut up (or do something constructive about it).
Couple this with all the PC garbage, another throw back to the Empire. Gone is the 'white mans burden' and the 'noble savage' attitudes of the past. Forcing a certain way of life on people is now seen as pure evil, mainly out of perceived guilt. Civil liberties, freedom of speech, human rights and many other legal aspects have come into place. These laws/rules allow people to chose there path in life, but who is to say they will chose correctly? There is nothing wrong with expecting (or even forcing) certain standards from people as long as it is one rule for all.
On the subject of immigration, ask yourself why Britain has so many immigrants. Part of it is because we have plenty of (by UK standards) low paid jobs and not enough people are doing them. People know they can make plenty of money with allowances and benefits, why pick strawberries all day? As Sir Humphrey Appleby once said "This country will have as much unemployment as it is prepared to pay for".
If you are happy to pay 20+ pence a kg more for strawberries (and more for all the other products from low paid jobs) then you can complain about immigrants. If you want cheap produce, except why it is cheap and shut up (or do something constructive about it).
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A key aspect to civil breakdown is absence of the rule of law, which is a cornerstone of every functioning society. The rule of law may take the form of religious enforcement, as in Saudi Arabia, or, as we know it in Western democracies, through the criminal code enforced by police and the courts.
The US, despite having been free from home-grown Muslim attrocities so far, has many urban areas where rule of law has broken down, and where gangs of thugs run rampant, providing their own means of enforcement. I've seen this happen in my home town, Detroit. I had no fear growing up there in the 50s and 60s, but now I will not enter the city unarmed. I can, however, walk freely in Dearbornistan among the burkas and beards at any hour.
I submit that restoration of rule of law, with the likelihood of arrest, conviction and incarceration restored to a deterrent level, would go a long way toward reducing our local terrorism threats. The burden of proof seems to be held too high on matters of conspiracy, abetting, and incitement, and vicious predators are too often allowed to go free to continue their bloody endeavors.
The US, despite having been free from home-grown Muslim attrocities so far, has many urban areas where rule of law has broken down, and where gangs of thugs run rampant, providing their own means of enforcement. I've seen this happen in my home town, Detroit. I had no fear growing up there in the 50s and 60s, but now I will not enter the city unarmed. I can, however, walk freely in Dearbornistan among the burkas and beards at any hour.
I submit that restoration of rule of law, with the likelihood of arrest, conviction and incarceration restored to a deterrent level, would go a long way toward reducing our local terrorism threats. The burden of proof seems to be held too high on matters of conspiracy, abetting, and incitement, and vicious predators are too often allowed to go free to continue their bloody endeavors.
"The UK had the Tube bombings, faced a second round, and now has this latest group of willing Suicide Bombers. The USA has not.
The question remains....simply.... Why so?"
Ignoring John Walker Lindh, Adam Gadahn, Jose Padilla et al, I'd say it is because you don't have a large, unassimilated, unintegrated Muslim population that is resident in, but not part of, your society, and that does not see itself as being 'American'.
The contrast between our West Indian immigrants and the Asian community is instructive. Jamaicans, Trinidadians and those from Barbados may be at the bottom of the heap in UK Society (in income, jobs and educational attainment) but they are a vigorous part of that society, and one that is integrating and assimilating rapidly, and that is inter-breeding with wider society. Its youth are not packed off back to Kingston for religious instruction, and are not expected to marry boys/girls from back home. Black British athletes see themselves as British, and are proud to be so, and wrap themselves in the Union Jack when they win. Our sports teams are full of black faces.
The same cannot be said for British Asians, who have succeeded better when it comes to income, jobs and educational attainment, but who remain largely apart from UK society, with separate schooling (madness) and with little integration. Even the most 'British' British Asian athletes (and there are few of them in our national sports) tend to be like Amir Khan - who fights under two flags - that of Pakistan and that of Great Britain.
And finally there is the real concern that it may be in the nature of Islam that an extremist interpretation is possible, and that that 'variant' of the religion is particularly dangerous to us.
The spectre of fundamentalist Rastafarians or Baptists does not terrify me quite so much. What are they going to do, overwhelm me with marijuana smoke, or deafen me with gospel singing?
The question remains....simply.... Why so?"
Ignoring John Walker Lindh, Adam Gadahn, Jose Padilla et al, I'd say it is because you don't have a large, unassimilated, unintegrated Muslim population that is resident in, but not part of, your society, and that does not see itself as being 'American'.
The contrast between our West Indian immigrants and the Asian community is instructive. Jamaicans, Trinidadians and those from Barbados may be at the bottom of the heap in UK Society (in income, jobs and educational attainment) but they are a vigorous part of that society, and one that is integrating and assimilating rapidly, and that is inter-breeding with wider society. Its youth are not packed off back to Kingston for religious instruction, and are not expected to marry boys/girls from back home. Black British athletes see themselves as British, and are proud to be so, and wrap themselves in the Union Jack when they win. Our sports teams are full of black faces.
The same cannot be said for British Asians, who have succeeded better when it comes to income, jobs and educational attainment, but who remain largely apart from UK society, with separate schooling (madness) and with little integration. Even the most 'British' British Asian athletes (and there are few of them in our national sports) tend to be like Amir Khan - who fights under two flags - that of Pakistan and that of Great Britain.
And finally there is the real concern that it may be in the nature of Islam that an extremist interpretation is possible, and that that 'variant' of the religion is particularly dangerous to us.
The spectre of fundamentalist Rastafarians or Baptists does not terrify me quite so much. What are they going to do, overwhelm me with marijuana smoke, or deafen me with gospel singing?
Last edited by Jackonicko; 12th Aug 2006 at 10:14.