Lebanon Operations, Strikes, and Evacuation Discussions (Merged)
Suspicion breeds confidence
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Lebanon Operations, Strikes, and Evacuation Discussions (Merged)
Condolances to the mssing crew members, but something imporant may have happened here. It may be possible that this vessel was hit by a slow flying primitive UAV. If this is the case then even if the vessel had been Phalanx eqipped (likely), the UAV was travelling below the minimum egagement speed dialed into the Phalanx. Not a pleasant situation for any ops room team. RN take note.
Latest news report mentioned the Hizboes claim to have 10,000 rockets in the cupboard. Very industrious these home business lads working in the garage hammering out these things.
Say what you want....JDAM's and Laser guided munitions come addressed to a particular address whereas the old Soviet style rockets are sent "To Whom It May Concern".
Say what you want....JDAM's and Laser guided munitions come addressed to a particular address whereas the old Soviet style rockets are sent "To Whom It May Concern".
7g,
Gee lets see here 7G, I take a dumb rocket, put it on some crossed sticks, point it towards oh say....a very small Democratic State in the Middle East....light the fuse and run away quickly to avoid being hit by counter battery artillery. Any chance I have a "particular" address in mind?
It takes a real Hero to do that would you not agree?
Gee lets see here 7G, I take a dumb rocket, put it on some crossed sticks, point it towards oh say....a very small Democratic State in the Middle East....light the fuse and run away quickly to avoid being hit by counter battery artillery. Any chance I have a "particular" address in mind?
It takes a real Hero to do that would you not agree?
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SAS,
It goes without saying that launching unguided missiles in the "general direction" give or take 5 degrees of arc souhtbound is irresponsible and targets civillians.
But it's not all roses and clinical precision at the other end either, dropping 500kgers into civilian housing and using attack helos to take out one car in the middle of a crowded market is not hero stuff either.
with reference to the accuracy of these smart munitions , if you cast your mind back to the opening "shock" and "awe" Bagdad aerial attack by the coalition, shock seems appropriate, in terms of the shockingly innacurate results achieved.
It is malicious intent on both sides.
It goes without saying that launching unguided missiles in the "general direction" give or take 5 degrees of arc souhtbound is irresponsible and targets civillians.
But it's not all roses and clinical precision at the other end either, dropping 500kgers into civilian housing and using attack helos to take out one car in the middle of a crowded market is not hero stuff either.
with reference to the accuracy of these smart munitions , if you cast your mind back to the opening "shock" and "awe" Bagdad aerial attack by the coalition, shock seems appropriate, in terms of the shockingly innacurate results achieved.
It is malicious intent on both sides.
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Just so happens that yesterday the Hez told Israel in a radio broadcast that they will 'destroy' the gunboat that is off the coast of Beirut for firing on them and also in revenge for their HQ being destroyed.... looks like they took up their words with actions quite swiftly....
Not sure if it was the same boat, but they had camera crew onboard, i was watching them on the news firing at the shore from onboard....
According to Israel, a civvie ship was hit by rockets aswell.
Now..They are trying to transfer the hostages to Iran.... apparently...will be interesting to see what Israel's response is to that....
Not sure if it was the same boat, but they had camera crew onboard, i was watching them on the news firing at the shore from onboard....
According to Israel, a civvie ship was hit by rockets aswell.
Now..They are trying to transfer the hostages to Iran.... apparently...will be interesting to see what Israel's response is to that....
Last edited by Razor61; 15th Jul 2006 at 08:40.
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I heard on ABC last night that it was an iranian supplied UAV.
We have to be fair, and we have to be seen to be fair.
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We have to be fair, and we have to be seen to be fair.
The West are masters of double standards and that's half the reason we're so increasingly despised.
Did they buy Iranian, or where whey acting on Tehran's behalf? Can't help suspecting this wasn't a business transaction, but something more sinister. If they will supply these things to Hezbollah, you have to worry about western naval forces at the top end of the Persian Gulf....
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Did they buy Iranian, or where whey acting on Tehran's behalf?
That's not to say several countries don't want to see the back of Israel and several may very well be providing at least funding. I would suggest Iran is implicated in the same way Tonga is in bombing Iraqi marketplaces in Iraq - by association. Our own club is just branded as the War on Terror.
Oddly enough, organisations like Hezbollah probably won't have as many 'respectable' companies banging on their door to supply arms, so they have to rely on less reputable vendors like Iran over BAe etc. But in the Gulf region I don't think ownership of arms is unreasonable; the visiting Israeli hardware provides an ironic endorsement for buying the stuff in the first place, irrespective of the legitimacy of its reason for popping in.
Buy? Lendlease or outright gifts more like.
Perhaps one should study up on the concept of "state supported terrorism" a bit before holding forth on logistical systems for Terrorists such as the Hizboes and Hamas organizations.
If one recalls, the UN has a Resolution on file that calls for the Hamas to disarm and refrain from terrorism. It also calls for the Lebanese to control the areas adjacent to the border and prevent such acts as these rocket attacks.
Perhaps one should study up on the concept of "state supported terrorism" a bit before holding forth on logistical systems for Terrorists such as the Hizboes and Hamas organizations.
If one recalls, the UN has a Resolution on file that calls for the Hamas to disarm and refrain from terrorism. It also calls for the Lebanese to control the areas adjacent to the border and prevent such acts as these rocket attacks.
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SASless
I don't doubt the dealings of many of the states in this region could be regarded as less than legitimate, but the West, as usual, gets to interpret the rule book as it suits. IF Iran is supplying missiles, even for free, to the elected government of another country it's just as bad as countless operations different western countries have directly or indirectly supported in the past when our interests were involved.
I have no sympathy for those currently under attack from Israel, but I think we should be very careful in trying to pin some blame on Iran for providing weapons. Israel and the US both routinely ignore UN directives when they don't suit - such as closing Gitmo - so that argument doesn't hold water either. If anything I would suggest if Iran is as close to nuclear weapons as some would have us believe, they would be more likely to distance themselves from being sucked into a fight for other reasons. Look what happened to Iraq!
We will only resolve this one when both sides acknowledge the need to at least try and look from both sides of the border.
I don't doubt the dealings of many of the states in this region could be regarded as less than legitimate, but the West, as usual, gets to interpret the rule book as it suits. IF Iran is supplying missiles, even for free, to the elected government of another country it's just as bad as countless operations different western countries have directly or indirectly supported in the past when our interests were involved.
I have no sympathy for those currently under attack from Israel, but I think we should be very careful in trying to pin some blame on Iran for providing weapons. Israel and the US both routinely ignore UN directives when they don't suit - such as closing Gitmo - so that argument doesn't hold water either. If anything I would suggest if Iran is as close to nuclear weapons as some would have us believe, they would be more likely to distance themselves from being sucked into a fight for other reasons. Look what happened to Iraq!
We will only resolve this one when both sides acknowledge the need to at least try and look from both sides of the border.
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Buy? Lendlease or outright gifts more like
one recalls, the UN has a Resolution on file that calls for the Hamas to disarm and refrain from terrorism. It also calls for the Lebanese to control the areas adjacent to the border and prevent such acts as these rocket attacks.
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Watch it Reach - that kind of free speech doesn't go down well, especially with the War on Terror crowd. Before you know it the CIA will be trying to turn your wife and there'll be a LGB through your garage.
Don't forget, you're either with US or against US [sic]
Don't forget, you're either with US or against US [sic]
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Another op !
Latest on Sky news... HMS Illustrious believed to be preparing to sail for Lebanon to evacuate UK citizens. Handy they were there really, goodness what we could do otherwise with existing commitments.
Wouldn't it make sense to pool resources with other EU countries and do a joint evac ? Sure that's been done before.
At least this one isn't hot & high and we have Akrotiri on the doorstep.
Things are really bad when an op of this type makes you wonder whether we have the resources to cope !
Hope it goes well for those deployed.
Edit: Oops! forgot to say, Illustrious is in Gibralter.
Wouldn't it make sense to pool resources with other EU countries and do a joint evac ? Sure that's been done before.
At least this one isn't hot & high and we have Akrotiri on the doorstep.
Things are really bad when an op of this type makes you wonder whether we have the resources to cope !
Hope it goes well for those deployed.
Edit: Oops! forgot to say, Illustrious is in Gibralter.
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Sky news now also reporting that Illustrious had just embarked loads of family of crew members in Gib to accompany the ship as she returned to the UK. They have now been booted off and arrangements being made to fly them all home again....what a kick in the teeth for the crew having been away for a number of months. Safe sailing guys and girls and hope you get home before too long.
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Originally Posted by microlight AV8R
Things are really bad when an op of this type makes you wonder whether we have the resources to cope !