Lebanon Operations, Strikes, and Evacuation Discussions (Merged)
Guess them Flags on the tail pylon of the Wokka's isn't a dead giveaway huh?
Along with the numbering on the side of the flying house trailers.
CNN had some awfully nice video and description of the planned operation.
As they say....one photo is worth a thousand words.
Along with the numbering on the side of the flying house trailers.
CNN had some awfully nice video and description of the planned operation.
As they say....one photo is worth a thousand words.
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Originally Posted by The Helpful Stacker
Bottom line on why Israel doesn't comply with UN resolution 242; The US is the biggest player at the UN, the US is run by rich, powerful Jewish people, rich and powerful Jewish people don't want Israel to 'concede' occupied lands.
Of course no doubt my comments will be seen as anti-semitic, the easiest stone to throw when talking about Israel and its US funded state-sponsored terrorism. Of course the US wouldn't understand that though as terrorism only happens when a plane flies into one of their buildings.
Good to see Israel using a like for like method of retailation. I'm not sure if using an Apache to stop a vehicle in a crowded marketplace is covered by our ROE's though.
Of course no doubt my comments will be seen as anti-semitic, the easiest stone to throw when talking about Israel and its US funded state-sponsored terrorism. Of course the US wouldn't understand that though as terrorism only happens when a plane flies into one of their buildings.
Good to see Israel using a like for like method of retailation. I'm not sure if using an Apache to stop a vehicle in a crowded marketplace is covered by our ROE's though.
Perhaps one is just a wee bit dramatic with the reality?
And regarding some of the posts about how the Jews were terrorists during the British occupation? You're right, they were. Difference is, they won. Same for us during our War of Independence; lot of our Founding Fathers would have hung if we'd lost. IF Osama and his ilk win, then those of us reading this in the coming generations (of course, just the men, because the women will not be allowed to be educated), will be talking about the next thumping of remaining westerners.
So, in the end, might usually does make right; having the will to project that might is a vital part of nationhood, particulary when the other side's stated goal is not to regain land, but to exterminate you. Pretty powerful inducement to pound the crap out of those who kidnap your soldiers and rocket your cities. Is it right, maybe not. But the alternative to Isreal is equally bad.
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SASless
I know that US forces always have the correct unit paintwork on the kit (and very smart it looks too) but we shamble through with what is available and that frequently means 'borrowing' other squadrons' aircraft, support equipment, people, shoelaces and bodge tape. So, a media (pauses to spit in bucket) picture of British forces usually provides better disinformation than the official bullsh?tters.
I stand by my question. Why give it away for free?
I know that US forces always have the correct unit paintwork on the kit (and very smart it looks too) but we shamble through with what is available and that frequently means 'borrowing' other squadrons' aircraft, support equipment, people, shoelaces and bodge tape. So, a media (pauses to spit in bucket) picture of British forces usually provides better disinformation than the official bullsh?tters.
I stand by my question. Why give it away for free?
Perhaps a better understanding of exactly what UN 242 is all about and how it was interpeted might help. It was you Brits that presented the thing...thus I would assume you own some part of the blame for the way it is written.
Following the June '67, Six-Day War, the situation in the Middle East was discussed by the UN General Assembly, which referred the issue to the Security Council. The key issue was the insistence of the Arab states on a provision for total Israeli withdrawal. After lengthy discussion, the wording "withdrawal from territories conquered.." rather than "withdrawal from the territories conquered" was adopted. Advocates of the Arab cause chose naturally to interpret the two as equivalent. The United States, advocates of this wording, chose to interpret it as allowing for minor border adjustments. The Israeli government interpreted "minor border adjustments’ in a rather liberal way. The Palestine Liberation Organization chose to reject it entirely. The final draft of the Security Council resolution was presented by the British Ambassador, Lord Caradon, on November 22, 1967. It was adopted on the same day.
This resolution, numbered 242, established provisions and principles which, it was hoped, would lead to a solution of the conflict. Resolution 242 was to become the cornerstone of Middle East diplomatic efforts in the coming decades
This resolution, numbered 242, established provisions and principles which, it was hoped, would lead to a solution of the conflict. Resolution 242 was to become the cornerstone of Middle East diplomatic efforts in the coming decades
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The Lebenon must comply with the UN Resoution
BUT
in 1967 the UN security council issued a resolution stating that Israel MUST pull out of the occupied territories. They are still yet to comply with the resolution!!
This is not Israel bashing! It is just stating fact!
This thread has already been deleted by the mods!!
in 1967 the UN security council issued a resolution stating that Israel MUST pull out of the occupied territories. They are still yet to comply with the resolution!!
This is not Israel bashing! It is just stating fact!
This thread has already been deleted by the mods!!
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People on this site should watch their mouths! Just because the information can be obtained from other sources does not mean that it is not sensitive information (please excuse the double neg!). It also does not give you the permision or right to release it!
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IF Osama and his ilk win, then those of us reading this in the coming generations (of course, just the men, because the women will not be allowed to be educated),
Instead of PPrune, will it have to be renamed FFig?
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Originally Posted by Aaaaaaaaaaaaaaaargh!
not forgetting of course that it's only recently that our own side of the great divide has allowed women to be educated / vote / work / join the military / drive and (unfortunately) use a computer
Instead of PPrune, will it have to be renamed FFig?
Instead of PPrune, will it have to be renamed FFig?
(It's a joke!)
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French Prime Minister Dominique de Villepin on Monday joined British Prime Minister Tony Blair and United Nations Secretary-General Kofi Annan in calling for the deployment of an international force in southern Lebanon
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Thanks Lukeylad,
I wasn't looking for ships' names and unaware of the routing of the RN ships at the time of posting. On reflection it didn't look like one of ours. I was just wondering if some other 'Carrier equipped' nations were taking it as seriously. It was too small to be one of the USN's 'biggies' and I thought their assets were on the prowl in the Sea of Japan, plus do USMC helo-carriers deploy so close to a war-zone un-escorted?
As for the French, would they risk a capital ship when they can charter a Greek ferry?
Personally I'd get a UN Peacekeeping force into Southern Lebanon as soon as Hezbollah is exterminated then set the IDF loose on 'Ass-ad's' tin pot dictatorship if they refuse to sign an accord agreeing to stop aiding,training,funding and channelling weapons and money to 'Hezbollahcs' from that bunch of camel humping homo's in Tehran. Only with a key ally neutralised can you truly isolate these despotic wankers!
Cheers. I feel better after that.
I wasn't looking for ships' names and unaware of the routing of the RN ships at the time of posting. On reflection it didn't look like one of ours. I was just wondering if some other 'Carrier equipped' nations were taking it as seriously. It was too small to be one of the USN's 'biggies' and I thought their assets were on the prowl in the Sea of Japan, plus do USMC helo-carriers deploy so close to a war-zone un-escorted?
As for the French, would they risk a capital ship when they can charter a Greek ferry?
Personally I'd get a UN Peacekeeping force into Southern Lebanon as soon as Hezbollah is exterminated then set the IDF loose on 'Ass-ad's' tin pot dictatorship if they refuse to sign an accord agreeing to stop aiding,training,funding and channelling weapons and money to 'Hezbollahcs' from that bunch of camel humping homo's in Tehran. Only with a key ally neutralised can you truly isolate these despotic wankers!
Cheers. I feel better after that.
Last edited by Pontious; 17th Jul 2006 at 23:35.
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Originally Posted by Pontious
Personally I'd get a UN Peacekeeping force into Southern Lebanon as soon as Hezbollah is exterminated...
UNIFIL was created in 1978 to confirm Israeli withdrawal from Lebanon, restore the international peace and security, and help the Lebanese Government restore its effective authority in the area.
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My dear Climebear,
I believe UNFIL's mission was to disarm Hezbollah- The IDF's is to get their men back and if Hezbollah gets a damn good kicking in the process then so what? Good riddance to the bastards!
The UN Interim force in Lebanon was never going to achieve this because like most UN sanctioned forces since Korea, they are a toothless tiger and twats like Hezbollahcs exploit that. This time the IDF has pretty much a free hand as long as the IDF is seen to be going out of its way to minimize casualties to the civilian population and target only Hezbollah interests and infrastructure.
Considering the IDF are dealing with an enemy consisting of gutless faggots who regularly hide or launch their rockets and mortars from heavy residential areas, they (IDF) are showing remarkable restraint.
Feel free to compare the relative success of UN mandated 'forces' and that of the IDF in recent operations and theatres, not to mention having the balls to carry these operations through and you'll see that this is a totally differant ballgame.
UN Mandated forces- Undermanned, Politically inept, Muscleless, Powerless, Disrespected, Shambolic, Under supported.
IDF in the current operations HAS Home public support, some support in the country it's bombing, Political support, technological advantage and years of combat expertise and experience PLUS The Will to Survive.
Terrorist groups come and go but States' survive. Do you recall PLO, Red Brigade? Bader-Meinhoff? Soon Hezbollah will join them (God Willing) but they'll spring up again in a few years under a differant guise and Israel will still be here. It's an endless game and a pointless fude. It's a wolf eating rabbits.
If I was a soldier in the IDF, right now, I'd be chomping at the bit to give some agro to Hezbollah....however...
...if I was on a Hezbollah Rocket Battery Team & I'd seen the devastation in Southern Lebanese strongholds of Hezbollah or that rectangular section of South Beirut waged by the IDF, I'd be thinking 'I could be the next IDF target'... and I'd be shaking like a ****ting poodle.
Goodnight.
I believe UNFIL's mission was to disarm Hezbollah- The IDF's is to get their men back and if Hezbollah gets a damn good kicking in the process then so what? Good riddance to the bastards!
The UN Interim force in Lebanon was never going to achieve this because like most UN sanctioned forces since Korea, they are a toothless tiger and twats like Hezbollahcs exploit that. This time the IDF has pretty much a free hand as long as the IDF is seen to be going out of its way to minimize casualties to the civilian population and target only Hezbollah interests and infrastructure.
Considering the IDF are dealing with an enemy consisting of gutless faggots who regularly hide or launch their rockets and mortars from heavy residential areas, they (IDF) are showing remarkable restraint.
Feel free to compare the relative success of UN mandated 'forces' and that of the IDF in recent operations and theatres, not to mention having the balls to carry these operations through and you'll see that this is a totally differant ballgame.
UN Mandated forces- Undermanned, Politically inept, Muscleless, Powerless, Disrespected, Shambolic, Under supported.
IDF in the current operations HAS Home public support, some support in the country it's bombing, Political support, technological advantage and years of combat expertise and experience PLUS The Will to Survive.
Terrorist groups come and go but States' survive. Do you recall PLO, Red Brigade? Bader-Meinhoff? Soon Hezbollah will join them (God Willing) but they'll spring up again in a few years under a differant guise and Israel will still be here. It's an endless game and a pointless fude. It's a wolf eating rabbits.
If I was a soldier in the IDF, right now, I'd be chomping at the bit to give some agro to Hezbollah....however...
...if I was on a Hezbollah Rocket Battery Team & I'd seen the devastation in Southern Lebanese strongholds of Hezbollah or that rectangular section of South Beirut waged by the IDF, I'd be thinking 'I could be the next IDF target'... and I'd be shaking like a ****ting poodle.
Goodnight.
Cunning Artificer
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OK im sure we did something back in the 60s bigger than this.
"Make sure you get a nice window seat dear!" - overheard from one old lady as her husband tottered off to a C130, while she was assigned to the next flight.
Mathias Dapfner, Chief Executive of the huge German publisher Axel Springer AG, has written a blistering attack in DIE WELT, Germany's largest daily paper, against the timid reaction of Europe in the face of the Islamic threat.
A few days ago Henry Broder wrote in Welt am Sonntag, "Europe - your family name is appeasement." It's a phrase you can't get out of your head because it's so terribly true. Appeasement cost millions of Jews and non- Jews their lives as England and France, allies at the time, negotiated and hesitated too long before they noticed that Hitler had to be fought, not bound to toothless agreements.
Appeasement legitimized and stabilized Communism in the Soviet Union, then East Germany, then all the rest of Eastern Europe where for decades, inhuman suppressive, murderous governments were glorified as the ideologically correct alternative to all other possibilities.
Appeasement crippled Europe when genocide ran rampant in Kosovo, and even though we had absolute proof of ongoing mass-murder, we Europeans debated and debated and debated, and were still debating when finally the Americans had to come from halfway around the world, into Europe yet again, and do our work for us.
Rather than protecting democracy in the Middle East, European appeasement, camouflaged behind the fuzzy word "equidistance," now countenances suicide bombings in Israel by fundamentalist Palestinians. Appeasement generates a mentality that allows Europe to ignore nearly 500,000 victims of Saddam's torture and murder machinery and, moti vated by the self-righteousness of the peace movement, has the gall to issue bad grades to George Bush. Even as it is uncovered that the loudest critics of the American action in Iraq made illicit billions, no, TENS of billions, in the corrupt U.N. Oil-for-Food program.
And now we are faced with a particularly grotesque form of appeasement. How is Germany reacting to the escalating violence by Islamic fundamentalists in Holland and elsewhere? By suggesting that we really should have a "Muslim Holiday" in Germany?
I wish I were joking, but I am not. A substantial fraction of our (German) Government, and if the polls are to be believed, the German people, actually believe that creating an Official State "Muslim Holiday" will somehow spare us from the wrath of the fanatical Islamists. One cannot help but recall Britain's Neville Chamberlain waving the laughable treaty signed by Adolph Hitler, and declaring European "Peace in our time."
What else has to happen before the European public and its political leadership get it? There is a sort of crusade underway, an especially perfidious crusade consisting of systematic attacks by fanatic Muslims, focused on civilians, directed against our free, open Western societies, and intent upon Western Civilization's utter destruction.
It is a conflict that will most likely last longer than any of the great military conflicts of the last century - a conflict conducted by an enemy that cannot be tamed by "tolerance" and "accommodation" but is actually spurred on by such gestures, which have proven to be, and will always be taken by the Islamists for signs of weakness.
Only two recent American Presidents had the courage needed for anti-appeasement: Reagan and Bush. His American critics may quibble over the details, but we Europeans know the truth. We saw it first hand: Ronald Reagan ended the Cold War, freeing half of the German people from nearly 50 years of terror and virtual sla very. And Bush, supported only by the Social Democrat Blair, acting on moral conviction, recognized the danger in the Islamic War against democracy. His place in history will have to be evaluated after a number of years have passed.
In the meantime, Europe sits back with charismatic self-confidence in the multicultural corner, instead of defending liberal society's values and being an attractive center of power on the same playing field as the true great powers, America and China. On the contrary - we Europeans present ourselves, in contrast to those "arrogant Americans," as the World Champions of "tolerance," which even (Germany's Interior Minister) Otto Schily justifiably criticizes.
Why? Because we're so moral? I fear it's more because we're so materialistic so devoid of a moral compass.
For his policies, Bush risks the fall of the dollar, huge amounts of additional national debt, and a massive and persistent burden on the American economy - because unlik e almost all of Europe, Bush realizes what is at stake - literally everything.
While we criticize the "capitalistic robber barons" of America because they seem too sure of their priorities, we timidly defend our Social Welfare systems. Stay out of it! It could get expensive! We'd rather discuss reducing our 35-hour workweek or our dental coverage, or our 4 weeks of paid vacation. Or listen to TV pastors preach about the need to "reach out to terrorists. To understand and forgive."
These days, Europe reminds me of an old woman who, with shaking hands, frantically hides her last pieces of jewelry when she notices a robber breaking into a neighbor's house.
Appeasement? Europe, thy name is Cowardice. God Bless America.
Appeasement legitimized and stabilized Communism in the Soviet Union, then East Germany, then all the rest of Eastern Europe where for decades, inhuman suppressive, murderous governments were glorified as the ideologically correct alternative to all other possibilities.
Appeasement crippled Europe when genocide ran rampant in Kosovo, and even though we had absolute proof of ongoing mass-murder, we Europeans debated and debated and debated, and were still debating when finally the Americans had to come from halfway around the world, into Europe yet again, and do our work for us.
Rather than protecting democracy in the Middle East, European appeasement, camouflaged behind the fuzzy word "equidistance," now countenances suicide bombings in Israel by fundamentalist Palestinians. Appeasement generates a mentality that allows Europe to ignore nearly 500,000 victims of Saddam's torture and murder machinery and, moti vated by the self-righteousness of the peace movement, has the gall to issue bad grades to George Bush. Even as it is uncovered that the loudest critics of the American action in Iraq made illicit billions, no, TENS of billions, in the corrupt U.N. Oil-for-Food program.
And now we are faced with a particularly grotesque form of appeasement. How is Germany reacting to the escalating violence by Islamic fundamentalists in Holland and elsewhere? By suggesting that we really should have a "Muslim Holiday" in Germany?
I wish I were joking, but I am not. A substantial fraction of our (German) Government, and if the polls are to be believed, the German people, actually believe that creating an Official State "Muslim Holiday" will somehow spare us from the wrath of the fanatical Islamists. One cannot help but recall Britain's Neville Chamberlain waving the laughable treaty signed by Adolph Hitler, and declaring European "Peace in our time."
What else has to happen before the European public and its political leadership get it? There is a sort of crusade underway, an especially perfidious crusade consisting of systematic attacks by fanatic Muslims, focused on civilians, directed against our free, open Western societies, and intent upon Western Civilization's utter destruction.
It is a conflict that will most likely last longer than any of the great military conflicts of the last century - a conflict conducted by an enemy that cannot be tamed by "tolerance" and "accommodation" but is actually spurred on by such gestures, which have proven to be, and will always be taken by the Islamists for signs of weakness.
Only two recent American Presidents had the courage needed for anti-appeasement: Reagan and Bush. His American critics may quibble over the details, but we Europeans know the truth. We saw it first hand: Ronald Reagan ended the Cold War, freeing half of the German people from nearly 50 years of terror and virtual sla very. And Bush, supported only by the Social Democrat Blair, acting on moral conviction, recognized the danger in the Islamic War against democracy. His place in history will have to be evaluated after a number of years have passed.
In the meantime, Europe sits back with charismatic self-confidence in the multicultural corner, instead of defending liberal society's values and being an attractive center of power on the same playing field as the true great powers, America and China. On the contrary - we Europeans present ourselves, in contrast to those "arrogant Americans," as the World Champions of "tolerance," which even (Germany's Interior Minister) Otto Schily justifiably criticizes.
Why? Because we're so moral? I fear it's more because we're so materialistic so devoid of a moral compass.
For his policies, Bush risks the fall of the dollar, huge amounts of additional national debt, and a massive and persistent burden on the American economy - because unlik e almost all of Europe, Bush realizes what is at stake - literally everything.
While we criticize the "capitalistic robber barons" of America because they seem too sure of their priorities, we timidly defend our Social Welfare systems. Stay out of it! It could get expensive! We'd rather discuss reducing our 35-hour workweek or our dental coverage, or our 4 weeks of paid vacation. Or listen to TV pastors preach about the need to "reach out to terrorists. To understand and forgive."
These days, Europe reminds me of an old woman who, with shaking hands, frantically hides her last pieces of jewelry when she notices a robber breaking into a neighbor's house.
Appeasement? Europe, thy name is Cowardice. God Bless America.
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I've a Beirut stamp in my passport. I was quite pleased with the reconstruction after the war there. The airport was most impressive. All shiny and new, marble floors, LCD displays everywhere and all.
I don't have any Israeli stamps, (on account of the Arabic ones), though I've been there many times. Israel is a ****hole. Just my observation, having seen all sides of the fences around that area. The odd lighthouse of civilisation (read Marriott or similar hotel) in a sea of trouble. I stayed in the Intercontinental, one of the best hotels I have ever been in, absolutely fantastic. Right across the road from the scene of a nightclub bombing.
I'm British. I live in the US. "Our" involvement (read that any way you like, it's the same) should be to extract our citizens. A directed military operation, in the classic sense of rescuing one's citizens. And those of our friends.
I'm neither for or against Lebanon, Israel, Arabs or Jews. I'm just sick to the back teeth of losing people over a ****hole. Let's get "our" people out of there, and leave those that wish to fight to get on with it. May the best man win. Bollox to a UN "peacekeeping" force. It has not been managed for the last 50 years, so why would a few blue hats and white trucks make a difference now? Been there, got that beret, painted the trucks green again at the end of it.
God speed to the Royal Navy, the Royal Air Force and allied forces as they extract our people.
</SoapBox>
I don't have any Israeli stamps, (on account of the Arabic ones), though I've been there many times. Israel is a ****hole. Just my observation, having seen all sides of the fences around that area. The odd lighthouse of civilisation (read Marriott or similar hotel) in a sea of trouble. I stayed in the Intercontinental, one of the best hotels I have ever been in, absolutely fantastic. Right across the road from the scene of a nightclub bombing.
I'm British. I live in the US. "Our" involvement (read that any way you like, it's the same) should be to extract our citizens. A directed military operation, in the classic sense of rescuing one's citizens. And those of our friends.
I'm neither for or against Lebanon, Israel, Arabs or Jews. I'm just sick to the back teeth of losing people over a ****hole. Let's get "our" people out of there, and leave those that wish to fight to get on with it. May the best man win. Bollox to a UN "peacekeeping" force. It has not been managed for the last 50 years, so why would a few blue hats and white trucks make a difference now? Been there, got that beret, painted the trucks green again at the end of it.
God speed to the Royal Navy, the Royal Air Force and allied forces as they extract our people.
</SoapBox>
Ecce Homo! Loquitur...
Evacuation commenced yeaterday by Chinook. The Times.. Lots of others evacuated by cruise ship already.
Explain to me again about the speed advantages of the GFLs....
Explain to me again about the speed advantages of the GFLs....
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Pontious
'The UN Interim force in Lebanon was never going to achieve this because like most UN sanctioned forces since Korea, they are a toothless tiger...
... UN Mandated forces- Undermanned, Politically inept, Muscleless, Powerless, Disrespected, Shambolic, Under supported.'
You pretty much answer you original suggestion for another UN Peacekeeping Force. Do you think a successor to UNIFIL will be any more succesful - with the current make-up of the UNSCR who would give the force its mandate (Russia and China haven't been leaping to Israel's defence)?
OK so I mucked up the quote box!
'The UN Interim force in Lebanon was never going to achieve this because like most UN sanctioned forces since Korea, they are a toothless tiger...
... UN Mandated forces- Undermanned, Politically inept, Muscleless, Powerless, Disrespected, Shambolic, Under supported.'
You pretty much answer you original suggestion for another UN Peacekeeping Force. Do you think a successor to UNIFIL will be any more succesful - with the current make-up of the UNSCR who would give the force its mandate (Russia and China haven't been leaping to Israel's defence)?
OK so I mucked up the quote box!
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Originally Posted by Pontious
Thanks Lukeylad,
I wasn't looking for ships' names and unaware of the routing of the RN ships at the time of posting. On reflection it didn't look like one of ours. I was just wondering if some other 'Carrier equipped' nations were taking it as seriously. It was too small to be one of the USN's 'biggies' and I thought their assets were on the prowl in the Sea of Japan, plus do USMC helo-carriers deploy so close to a war-zone un-escorted?
As for the French, would they risk a capital ship when they can charter a Greek ferry?
Personally I'd get a UN Peacekeeping force into Southern Lebanon as soon as Hezbollah is exterminated then set the IDF loose on 'Ass-ad's' tin pot dictatorship if they refuse to sign an accord agreeing to stop aiding,training,funding and channelling weapons and money to 'Hezbollahcs' from that bunch of camel humping homo's in Tehran. Only with a key ally neutralised can you truly isolate these despotic wankers!
Cheers. I feel better after that.
I wasn't looking for ships' names and unaware of the routing of the RN ships at the time of posting. On reflection it didn't look like one of ours. I was just wondering if some other 'Carrier equipped' nations were taking it as seriously. It was too small to be one of the USN's 'biggies' and I thought their assets were on the prowl in the Sea of Japan, plus do USMC helo-carriers deploy so close to a war-zone un-escorted?
As for the French, would they risk a capital ship when they can charter a Greek ferry?
Personally I'd get a UN Peacekeeping force into Southern Lebanon as soon as Hezbollah is exterminated then set the IDF loose on 'Ass-ad's' tin pot dictatorship if they refuse to sign an accord agreeing to stop aiding,training,funding and channelling weapons and money to 'Hezbollahcs' from that bunch of camel humping homo's in Tehran. Only with a key ally neutralised can you truly isolate these despotic wankers!
Cheers. I feel better after that.
Last edited by lukeylad; 18th Jul 2006 at 08:02.