PVR - Flying Pay Cut - unjust?

[Baque Flip]

With the transition earlier this year onto the JPA system, has anyone picked up the fact that when you PVR, regardless of your rate of Flying Pay, it is now HALVED!!

Has anyone tried to legally contest this? Or the drop in Flying Pay on the OLD system? As far as I am aware, under current European Employment Law, it is illegal to penalise an employee in this way.

[SpotterFC]

Originally Posted by Baque Flip

With the transition earlier this year onto the JPA system, has anyone picked up the fact that when you PVR, regardless of your rate of Flying Pay, it is now HALVED!!
Has anyone tried to legally contest this? Or the drop in Flying Pay on the OLD system? As far as I am aware, under current European Employment Law, it is illegal to penalise an employee in this way.

Never having been in receipt of it I may be missing the point (and am wearing flameproof underpants) but I thought flying pay was partially a retention incentive - offsetting the higher pay available outside. If you don't want to be retained, why should the MoD keep trying?

[wg13_dummy]

Originally Posted by SpotterFC

Never having been in receipt of it I may be missing the point (and am wearing flameproof underpants) but I thought flying pay was partially a retention incentive - offsetting the higher pay available outside. If you don't want to be retained, why should the MoD keep trying?

Correct, spotter.

Its retention pay. No need to retain if its shown one is jumping ship.

[Confucius]

Unfortunately I think flying pay is still classed as a taxable allowance, so its loss is not regarded as a pay cut per se.

[JessTheDog]

How about a pay cut for T Bliar, who announced he won't be standing next time around...and why doesn't someone reduce his notice to 1 month while they're at it!

[FFP]

Spotters right. It's sold as a retention payment. Ergo . . . .

[Charlie Luncher]

I had the same problem when I NGR'd, only the fact that I read the AP beforehand I knew they were in the wrong due to my terms of service, worth a look if it still exists that is.
Funny that the first action of the scribblys was screw the nut just that little bit tighter.
Charlie sends

[Runaway Gun]

Well you are taking the Scribbly's personal cut of the funds.... so it would seem.

[Baque Flip]

Originally Posted by Charlie Luncher

I had the same problem when I NGR'd, only the fact that I read the AP beforehand I knew they were in the wrong due to my terms of service, worth a look if it still exists that is.
Funny that the first action of the scribblys was screw the nut just that little bit tighter.
Charlie sends

I looked into the NGR but couldn't find out any info. Not sure if it has died with the advent of JPA. What were the benifits anyway? I can't believe that you would accept a drop in FP for the prescribed 18 month period...if so, who would take this option?

[OverTq]

I think you're lucky it's only halved!

[LFFC]

Look on the bright side. If PMA are so keen to retain over 50 year olds that their flying pay is now halved if they plan to leave a couple of years early, perhaps it means they will be offered this new FRI too!

[South Bound]

I agree with OverTq - so many threads on here have explained ad naseum that flying pay is about retention. If you decide not to stay I think you are lucky to keep any of it.

[Charlie Luncher]

Baque's
The NGR suited me due to the exit date being decided by me not PMA, and it did come round awful quick, but I did go to the USA for my resettlement training. My flying pay was not dropped after Mr Scribbly and I had a reading lesson .
I do remember when I first looked at aircrew pay levels it was called flying risk pay, then it was changed to give aircrew a pay increase over the blunties, god bless 'em .
Charlie sends

[Kengineer-130]

South Bound
"I agree with OverTq - so many threads on here have explained ad naseum that flying pay is about retention. If you decide not to stay I think you are lucky to keep any of it. "

what utter bullsh*t if you hand your notice in in a civvie job, do you expect your wages to be cut just because you fancy a change/new job/move up in the world?? Time to stop getting F**ked over, if you earn the money you should be paid it until the day you leave, simple.

[The Gorilla]

A lot of you appear to be missing something important here and you seem to want to blame JPA. If it is true that flying is being halved and I don't know that it is since I have no access to JPA, then this is most significant. Exit levels are high whilst recrutment levels are getting ever lower. Sooner or later there will be a manpower crisis to the point where the nations very security is threatened. At least that is the excuse they will use! The next step will be to remove entirely flying pay when you PVR as a manning tool and I have no doubt that eventually the PVR option will also become unavailable.

A thought for those of you still dithering on any decision to leave, if manpower levels fall sufficiently there are standing powers for the Defence Council to prevent you from leaving and even extending your normal exit points for a couple of years!

[South Bound]

KE130

yep, you are right, but he isn't in civvie street he is in the RAF and he gets given some extra money in his pay packet to encourage him to stay in. Having decided to leave, why should the taxpayer still pay him money to stay in? You tell me. Exactly the same as FRIs - you leave early, you pay some back.

I suppose that is the beauty of the current system. I have always advocated all aircrew having their own payscales with flying pay built in, and not an allowance. But if they did that, they would not be able to cut flying pay on PVR!

[BEagle]

If Flying Pay is to be cut following PVR application, it is only right that PVR exit time should also be cut.

Another reason I pulled the B&Y back in 2003 - I saw all this coming!

[nimblast]

Question,
if you have served for more than 9 yrs, QR's state that you have a right to give 18months notice or PVR. By exercising your right how can you then be penalised by a pay cut??

[South Bound]

Fully aware that I am going to be stoned by everyone on here, but what is so difficult about this? It is retention pay, this has been argued ad nauseum on other threads and is the reason aircrew get flying pay, to keep them in the Service. If one chooses to leave why should they get paid retention pay? Perhaps they should continue to pay FRIs with no payback of service as well.... I can see that it looks unjust, but it is common sense.

As I said before, it would be better if aircrew were just paid at a different rate.

[Twopack]

...they are - on the Professional Aviator Spine.

No flying pay, therefore no pay cut on PVR.

Try the ''Flying pay is retention pay'' argument on that. Are you saying they don't need to retain PA??