Can't Red Ten use the bus?
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Can't Red Ten use the bus?
Just a thought.
On saturday, last, The Red Arrows pitched up for their annual jaunt to the Isle of Man for the end of TT. The display was around four, and around 1300, the spare hawk was sat on the apron at Ronaldsway. Next to it was a DHFS Squirrel - which I presume was used to transport red 10 to Douglas to do the comentary.
I'll have the extra Hawk in case one goes U/S, but dragging a helo across the Irish Sea for a 3 minute flight to Douglas? The return taxi fare would have been less than 50 quid and because TT was effectively over there was hardly any traffic to worry about.
In these days of exceptional bean-countery, is this right? Discuss.
On saturday, last, The Red Arrows pitched up for their annual jaunt to the Isle of Man for the end of TT. The display was around four, and around 1300, the spare hawk was sat on the apron at Ronaldsway. Next to it was a DHFS Squirrel - which I presume was used to transport red 10 to Douglas to do the comentary.
I'll have the extra Hawk in case one goes U/S, but dragging a helo across the Irish Sea for a 3 minute flight to Douglas? The return taxi fare would have been less than 50 quid and because TT was effectively over there was hardly any traffic to worry about.
In these days of exceptional bean-countery, is this right? Discuss.
I understand it is also used to recce the area before the display?
Anyway - so what? No big deal.
Something of the green eyed monster about your post.
Anyway - so what? No big deal.
Something of the green eyed monster about your post.
Last edited by BEagle; 12th Jun 2006 at 06:29.
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Not being in the loop, I can't give you the definitive answer. However, the Reds programme is invariably multi-site and on very tight timing. How long does it take you to get into an airshow? I suspect that it is done this way to avoid problems of getting stuck en route. The commentry is part of their show; telling the public what the Reds are doing and giving them odd details adds to the enjoyment. It's pretty standard for the big teams.
The costs will have been covered by the organisers through airshow income.
Beags, give the guy a break - his profile says he's a policeman...
The costs will have been covered by the organisers through airshow income.
Beags, give the guy a break - his profile says he's a policeman...
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Policeman:
More importantly, he is a taxpayer, and deserves respect when he wishes to see his taxes used efficiently. Beagle - How rude:
It would not have been beyond the realms of the organisers to have got him to the show on time (by road), and as the Reds displayed at IOM - Silverstone & Cosford over the weekend, how many Squiirels - pilots (with time off their primary duties in lieu I would assume) were used (abused) over the weekend.
The 'recce' debate is diluted by the fact that a Squirrel does not attend every show IIRC. A Red Squirrel in the future perhaps?
I saw one of the weekend displays and the lack of coloured smoke for most of the diplay replaced with what appeared to be browny grey smoke as opposed to white looked a mess.
More importantly, he is a taxpayer, and deserves respect when he wishes to see his taxes used efficiently. Beagle - How rude:
It would not have been beyond the realms of the organisers to have got him to the show on time (by road), and as the Reds displayed at IOM - Silverstone & Cosford over the weekend, how many Squiirels - pilots (with time off their primary duties in lieu I would assume) were used (abused) over the weekend.
The 'recce' debate is diluted by the fact that a Squirrel does not attend every show IIRC. A Red Squirrel in the future perhaps?
I saw one of the weekend displays and the lack of coloured smoke for most of the diplay replaced with what appeared to be browny grey smoke as opposed to white looked a mess.
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The obvious response is - should policemen get police cars - or should they walk? Discuss.
BTW, as far as paying taxes goes - isn't the IOM "Offshore", and not part of the UK - so what is this to do with a non UK tax payer?
BTW, as far as paying taxes goes - isn't the IOM "Offshore", and not part of the UK - so what is this to do with a non UK tax payer?
Last edited by ShyTorque; 12th Jun 2006 at 18:16.
....they must have transitted South pretty soon after the IOM display on Sat, as they came belting over my part of West Berks at about 1900L, heading South.
Not sure where they were off to, as their next show was due to be at the Grand Prix yesterday (for which I always remember them operating out of Brize).
Editted to get the time right: Thanks AA, was drinking beer and barbie-ing, so may have lost track of time somewhat!
Not sure where they were off to, as their next show was due to be at the Grand Prix yesterday (for which I always remember them operating out of Brize).
Editted to get the time right: Thanks AA, was drinking beer and barbie-ing, so may have lost track of time somewhat!
Last edited by Wycombe; 12th Jun 2006 at 14:03.
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....they must have transitted South straight after the IOM display on Sat, as they came belting over my part of West Berks at about 1800L, heading South.
Last edited by airborne_artist; 12th Jun 2006 at 12:12.
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standto
To answer your question, yes it was right.
The Arrows, whether you like them or not, are renouned for precision, and anyone with even the remains of a single human brain cell would know that as far as reliability on any UK road is concerned - you can forget it!
Can you imagine the furore if the Arrows failed to turn up because Red 10 got stuck in traffic? or his taxi broke down? heaven forbid.
Come on, leave them to do what they do best, show this country in a good light! There is little to be proud of, lets not shoot ourselves in the foot and give some spotty little civil servant an excuse to go digging.
The Winco
To answer your question, yes it was right.
The Arrows, whether you like them or not, are renouned for precision, and anyone with even the remains of a single human brain cell would know that as far as reliability on any UK road is concerned - you can forget it!
Can you imagine the furore if the Arrows failed to turn up because Red 10 got stuck in traffic? or his taxi broke down? heaven forbid.
Come on, leave them to do what they do best, show this country in a good light! There is little to be proud of, lets not shoot ourselves in the foot and give some spotty little civil servant an excuse to go digging.
The Winco
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The DHFS Squirrel that supports the Reds is flown by CFS(H) out of Shawbury - part of their job description - in fact i'm sure it's mentioned in their Terms of Reference - is to support the Reds by flying around Red 10 to airshows various. It's already been budgeted for, so he has every right to be there, i guess.
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Originally Posted by Widger
Sorry but missed the bloomin obvious....buses don't float, unless Top Gear are involved, so a Taxi may have cost 50 quid but how long does the ferry to Douglas take?
Red 10 flew the spare jet to the IOM and parked it at Ronaldsway - therefore no ferry required. The Squirrel was used to fly Red 10 from the airport to the display in Douglas in order to give the commentary, a distance of 9.5 miles! With all those bikes there surely he could jumped on the back of one and do the journey in 10 minutes!
MadMark!!!
Last edited by Mad_Mark; 13th Jun 2006 at 11:01.
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There was a case abut ten years ago, where the Polish Display team made their debut UK appearance at Fairford for the Tattoo. They had the first slot on the Saturday (one day only for their contribution too) and missed it due to the bus from the Swinetown hotel being held up in traffic. Bet they had a good day around the bazaars though...
Conan
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well, that stirred up the nest.
Few things to deal with here:
first of all: Shyte - you are out of order cutting and posting my profile. If anyone is that interested, and they are registered, then they can have a look. That said, I have never stated I am anything else than what I am these days, unlike some Walter Mittys.
Secondly, although we are an offshore jurisdiction, we are part of the British Isles and rely on our Crown for defence. We pay a wedge towards that. I was once a UK tax payer as well, so feel more than justified to ask questions as to how my buck is being spent.
Thirdly, I am a Red admirer, though not particularly excited by their display these days. their skill is however beyond question.
Fourthly, it wasn't an airshow, it was a single display paid for by IOM govt (so again as a taxpayer to them, I have an interest) It was at the end of TT when most of the visitors had left. Traffic was so light that I could have got red ten from the airport in plenty of time. In fact, if they had asked I could have probably arranged a pick up and transfer, especially if it would have saved the govt several hours of 'Squirreltime' (presuming that positioning, etc. was 'factored in' to the display cost)
fifthly, the squirrel comes every year, as did the Gazelles before them. That doesn't make it right.
sixthly, in respect of trying to police 15000 motorcycles on foot instead of in a car - well, I'll leave the educated masses to work this out.
seventhly, as a public and crown servant, I have to account for every penny I spend in pursuit of public protection. I expect others to do the same.
eighthly, I would love to see the Reds continue in perpetuity, but when everything isn't right in operational theatres, and money is being lavished just to get a commentator to somewhere on time, then personally, I think we have got our priorities wrong.
Few things to deal with here:
first of all: Shyte - you are out of order cutting and posting my profile. If anyone is that interested, and they are registered, then they can have a look. That said, I have never stated I am anything else than what I am these days, unlike some Walter Mittys.
Secondly, although we are an offshore jurisdiction, we are part of the British Isles and rely on our Crown for defence. We pay a wedge towards that. I was once a UK tax payer as well, so feel more than justified to ask questions as to how my buck is being spent.
Thirdly, I am a Red admirer, though not particularly excited by their display these days. their skill is however beyond question.
Fourthly, it wasn't an airshow, it was a single display paid for by IOM govt (so again as a taxpayer to them, I have an interest) It was at the end of TT when most of the visitors had left. Traffic was so light that I could have got red ten from the airport in plenty of time. In fact, if they had asked I could have probably arranged a pick up and transfer, especially if it would have saved the govt several hours of 'Squirreltime' (presuming that positioning, etc. was 'factored in' to the display cost)
fifthly, the squirrel comes every year, as did the Gazelles before them. That doesn't make it right.
sixthly, in respect of trying to police 15000 motorcycles on foot instead of in a car - well, I'll leave the educated masses to work this out.
seventhly, as a public and crown servant, I have to account for every penny I spend in pursuit of public protection. I expect others to do the same.
eighthly, I would love to see the Reds continue in perpetuity, but when everything isn't right in operational theatres, and money is being lavished just to get a commentator to somewhere on time, then personally, I think we have got our priorities wrong.
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Originally Posted by airborne_artist
Sure that wasn't 1915L, Wycombe? They were about 3 nm W of Benson at 1912, overflying (and trailing smoke) a private party for the owner (and restorer) of one of the few BoB aircraft that is airworthy. Great start to the evening.
Colin
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8th Abingdon Air & Country Show....6th May 2007
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Drawing attention to this and moaning about it leads to the Light Blue way. No you cant land at that airfield, because we wont pay the landing fees. No you cant go to that airshow as a static, because we are pleading poverty, and going will send the wrong message. The fun trips are getting fewer and fewer. Unless you fly for the TA of course. Oops, there is another bridge toasted.
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As much as would like to see more fun and perks for the boys and girls. I would rather see them get the basics in theatre.
I have seen too many request for vital equipment (even batteries for PRC112Gs!!) turned down to justify all that expense to avoid a pilot getting stuck in traffic.
And
I have looked out the window and seen too many coffins brought back from the gulf too.
If any doubt look at the 2 Hercules threads that are never far from the top of page 1.
I have seen too many request for vital equipment (even batteries for PRC112Gs!!) turned down to justify all that expense to avoid a pilot getting stuck in traffic.
And
I have looked out the window and seen too many coffins brought back from the gulf too.
If any doubt look at the 2 Hercules threads that are never far from the top of page 1.
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I always thought 'Red 10' was the callsign adopted by Ascot 5*** having been told to 'hold off' as it approached Akrotiri airspace at ~10:00Z on a Monday, having flown from Lyneham on the red-eye.