Life Sentences for Desertion...
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Life Sentences for Desertion...
A tad severe I thought - Those shiny arsed PONTIs at Westminster are clearly losing the plot 
http://news.bbc.co.uk/2/hi/uk_news/politics/5006638.stm
Discuss...
http://news.bbc.co.uk/2/hi/uk_news/politics/5006638.stm
Discuss...
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It just makes me wonder... what do these MPs think of the personnel serving in HM Armed Forces? Do they think we are all on the brink of desertion? Do they think....I know, we need to send a strong message to these moaning lot? Very strange......Perhaps we should send a large group of MPs to live and work in Iraq in order to stabilize the iraqi government and aid the rebuilding process. Oh, and by the way, you are living in a tent and you have a 3 min phone call home and 10 mins on the internet, enjoy.
I'm losing faith in this lot!
I'm losing faith in this lot!
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PONTI = Person of no tactical importance
JAFFA - Just another Fat F******* Administrator
REMF - Rear echelon mother Fu**********
Handbrake House - SHQ - Stn Headquarters where an abundance of REMFs, JAFFAs & PONTIs can be found.
JAFFA - Just another Fat F******* Administrator
REMF - Rear echelon mother Fu**********
Handbrake House - SHQ - Stn Headquarters where an abundance of REMFs, JAFFAs & PONTIs can be found.
More bang for your buck
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Just a point, you would have been shot for desertion 50 years ago.(in the face of the enemy). So life inprisonment is a logical move, wether its the right one is another matter,
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Quote:
Defence minister Tom Watson said there would only be a maximum sentence of life where desertion was "to avoid relevant service".
That would exclude things like military occupation of a foreign country.
Relevant service operations would be "the ones which every member of the force needs to have complete confidence in the other members of his unit,"
Let me get this right, relevent service is not the occupation of a foreign country, but it is when you need to be completely confident in your work mates (like when they're your safety man on a functional test, keeping an eye on you on the line, not taxying over you on the pan, getting your pay right so you don't lose your house, going to war etc).
Politicians, what a waste of oxygen.
Defence minister Tom Watson said there would only be a maximum sentence of life where desertion was "to avoid relevant service".
That would exclude things like military occupation of a foreign country.
Relevant service operations would be "the ones which every member of the force needs to have complete confidence in the other members of his unit,"
Let me get this right, relevent service is not the occupation of a foreign country, but it is when you need to be completely confident in your work mates (like when they're your safety man on a functional test, keeping an eye on you on the line, not taxying over you on the pan, getting your pay right so you don't lose your house, going to war etc).
Politicians, what a waste of oxygen.
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Why not go back to 1914 and bring back the firing squad? We have politicians behaving like Great War Generals, they may as well go the whole hog.
One point could it be argued that this is a change to terms of service?
I was sent the draft legislation a few days ago...
Clause 8: Desertion
60. Under this clause desertion is committed if a person subject to service law is absent without permission and either intends:
not to return at all, or
to avoid service on operations against an enemy, service abroad on operations to protect life or property or service on military occupation of a foreign country or territory.
61. It is an offence whether the person has the necessary intention at the time of going absent or develops the intention later.
62. The maximum sentence for desertion is generally two years' imprisonmentin the second bullet above, or if his intention is to avoid such service.. But the maximum is life imprisonment if the offender deserts when on service, or under orders to go on service, of the types described
8 Desertion
(1) A person subject to service law commits an offence if he deserts.
(2) For the purposes of this Act a person deserts if he is absent without leave and—
(a) he intends to remain permanently absent without leave; or
5
(b) he intends to avoid any particular service or kind of service, and that
service or kind of service is relevant service.
(3) In this section “relevant service” means—
(a) actions or operations against an enemy;
(b) operations outside the British Islands for the protection of life or
10
property; or
(c) military occupation of a foreign country or territory.
(4) A person guilty of an offence under this section is liable to any punishment
mentioned in the Table in section 163, and any sentence of imprisonment
imposed in respect of the offence—
15
(a) if subsection (5) applies, may be for life;
(b) otherwise, must not exceed two years.
(5) This subsection applies if—
(a) the offender was on relevant service or under orders for such service
when he became absent without leave; or
20
(b) subsection (2)(b) applied to him in relation to the offence.
Clause 2: Misconduct on operations
45. When persons subject to service law are taking part, or under orders to take part, in operations against an enemy certain misconduct may be more serious than in other circumstances. Under this clause service personnel are guilty of an offence if in such circumstances they commit specified types of misconduct. These are:
surrendering or abandoning a place when under a duty to defend it (subsection (1))
failing to do their utmost to carry out lawful commands (subsection (3))
when carrying out certain important duties (such as guard duty) sleeping or leaving their place of duty (subsection (4))
making statements (or other communications) likely to cause alarm or despondency among our or allied forces, or among accompanying civilians who are subject to service discipline (subsection (5))
46. In most cases no offence is committed if the person has a reasonable excuse for his actions.
47. The maximum penalty under this clause is life imprisonment.
One point could it be argued that this is a change to terms of service?
I was sent the draft legislation a few days ago...
Clause 8: Desertion
60. Under this clause desertion is committed if a person subject to service law is absent without permission and either intends:
not to return at all, or
to avoid service on operations against an enemy, service abroad on operations to protect life or property or service on military occupation of a foreign country or territory.
61. It is an offence whether the person has the necessary intention at the time of going absent or develops the intention later.
62. The maximum sentence for desertion is generally two years' imprisonmentin the second bullet above, or if his intention is to avoid such service.. But the maximum is life imprisonment if the offender deserts when on service, or under orders to go on service, of the types described
8 Desertion
(1) A person subject to service law commits an offence if he deserts.
(2) For the purposes of this Act a person deserts if he is absent without leave and—
(a) he intends to remain permanently absent without leave; or
5
(b) he intends to avoid any particular service or kind of service, and that
service or kind of service is relevant service.
(3) In this section “relevant service” means—
(a) actions or operations against an enemy;
(b) operations outside the British Islands for the protection of life or
10
property; or
(c) military occupation of a foreign country or territory.
(4) A person guilty of an offence under this section is liable to any punishment
mentioned in the Table in section 163, and any sentence of imprisonment
imposed in respect of the offence—
15
(a) if subsection (5) applies, may be for life;
(b) otherwise, must not exceed two years.
(5) This subsection applies if—
(a) the offender was on relevant service or under orders for such service
when he became absent without leave; or
20
(b) subsection (2)(b) applied to him in relation to the offence.
Clause 2: Misconduct on operations
45. When persons subject to service law are taking part, or under orders to take part, in operations against an enemy certain misconduct may be more serious than in other circumstances. Under this clause service personnel are guilty of an offence if in such circumstances they commit specified types of misconduct. These are:
surrendering or abandoning a place when under a duty to defend it (subsection (1))
failing to do their utmost to carry out lawful commands (subsection (3))
when carrying out certain important duties (such as guard duty) sleeping or leaving their place of duty (subsection (4))
making statements (or other communications) likely to cause alarm or despondency among our or allied forces, or among accompanying civilians who are subject to service discipline (subsection (5))
46. In most cases no offence is committed if the person has a reasonable excuse for his actions.
47. The maximum penalty under this clause is life imprisonment.
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Originally Posted by nigegilb
making statements (or other communications) likely to cause alarm or despondency among our or allied forces, or among accompanying civilians who are subject to service discipline (subsection (5))
46. In most cases no offence is committed if the person has a reasonable excuse for his actions.
47. The maximum penalty under this clause is life imprisonment.
46. In most cases no offence is committed if the person has a reasonable excuse for his actions.
47. The maximum penalty under this clause is life imprisonment.
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Scotsman carried a good article on this;
http://news.scotsman.com/uk.cfm?id=742682006
Something is spooking MoD. Can't figure out if it is a knee jerk reaction to Ben Griffin and the Doctor in the trench coat, future ops, or the general malaise concerning occupation of Iraq. Thankfully legislation did not include PPRUNE-yet!!
http://news.scotsman.com/uk.cfm?id=742682006
Something is spooking MoD. Can't figure out if it is a knee jerk reaction to Ben Griffin and the Doctor in the trench coat, future ops, or the general malaise concerning occupation of Iraq. Thankfully legislation did not include PPRUNE-yet!!
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Still trying to find out, expect it to be the same but what is interesting is this new reference to occupations.
Check out this web site.
We executed 346 of our own in the Great War some of them were kids. The youngest that I have found reference to was just 17 yrs old! We still recruit kids into our own Army. Methinks this move will backfire amongst mums and dads out there.
http://www.shotatdawn.org.uk/
This page in the website refers to 3 troubling cases,where such things as stress were not taken into account. Anyone who saw Gilligan's prog last night will be aware that Brit Mil is still making same mistakes 90 yrs on.
http://www.shotatdawn.org.uk/page36.html
Check out this web site.
We executed 346 of our own in the Great War some of them were kids. The youngest that I have found reference to was just 17 yrs old! We still recruit kids into our own Army. Methinks this move will backfire amongst mums and dads out there.
http://www.shotatdawn.org.uk/
This page in the website refers to 3 troubling cases,where such things as stress were not taken into account. Anyone who saw Gilligan's prog last night will be aware that Brit Mil is still making same mistakes 90 yrs on.
http://www.shotatdawn.org.uk/page36.html
Last edited by nigegilb; 23rd May 2006 at 15:53.
Ah yes, Gilligan, that well known champion of the British Military. Where would we be without him. Although the issues were real enough because there was a heartbeat at the end of them, I can't help but feel it was yet another chance for Gilligan to strut his fat ego (and gut) around without giving the MoD the opportunity to defend itself and only reporting the side that he wanted to people to hear. He is no better than a video version of the Daily Mirror.
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Intrigued by Kevan Jones comment about not having a "pick & choose army where people pick and choose where they do serve". I thought that was the way the RAF worked! It was always a bugger getting posted from Kinloss to Brize where all the prima donna "pick & choosers" lived!
Wonder what his opinion would be if the next UK Parliamentary session occurred in downtown Kandahar or Baghdad!
Wonder what his opinion would be if the next UK Parliamentary session occurred in downtown Kandahar or Baghdad!
IMHO, this is a huge story. Not surprisingly, the MOD and indeed the Cabinet do not want this information on the streets in any way, shape or form. They will do just about everything to stop, spin, bury this kind of information.
To say they don't have any figures on increases in desertion is a blatant lie. Of course they know how many are missing and how that relates to previous years.
The Military top brass do little to help the situation when they hang servicemen and women out to dry to appease the Left. They further damage the Forces when they bow and scrape to the Politicians in pursuit of personal gain. Having said that I did meet a VERY senior Naval Officer who had thrown his toys out of the cot. He told us to watch the press over the next three months or so. His PSO was livid and told us to forget what we had heard.
Two months later his retirement 'on health grounds' was announced in the media.
To say they don't have any figures on increases in desertion is a blatant lie. Of course they know how many are missing and how that relates to previous years.
The Military top brass do little to help the situation when they hang servicemen and women out to dry to appease the Left. They further damage the Forces when they bow and scrape to the Politicians in pursuit of personal gain. Having said that I did meet a VERY senior Naval Officer who had thrown his toys out of the cot. He told us to watch the press over the next three months or so. His PSO was livid and told us to forget what we had heard.
Two months later his retirement 'on health grounds' was announced in the media.
