Military back-up refused for strike by firefighters

[Skeleton]

Cash agreed..

But they still went on strike!!

[Controversial Tim]

So cash machine -

The fireshirkers are using peoples lives as a bargaining chip in their pay negotiations.

Do you agree with that?

[Skeleton]

Tim you will not win...
We are dealing with people who have to support there "meagre income" with a second job on there days off.
Hence the need to sleep on nights.
Yes they do a good job.... but so do lots of others.
They lost my support the minute they decided to "out themselves" in the midst of preperation for war.
Your on nights you work or snore.
Why should they be different?
I do think there kit is "hard" though.. love the sunglasses.

[tonkatechie]

I served on a GG (and later on a RG) crew in Op Fresco. I remember being dumfounded by the FBU's 'request' for a 40% increase in wages, claiming it was needed to bring the pay up to modern standards, following years of no or little pay-rises. I asked myself then: "what the were they doing for so long before pushing so hard for an increase?" After all, it was obvious to the biggest idiot that they were never going to get that much, even if you take into account the old 'ask for more than you really want, so everyone walks away feeling happy' scenario. However, despite this, my training (BART course and GG training) showed me that the firemen do have a strenuous and dangerous job (I still ache at the thought of carrying a man heavier than me down a 2 storey ladder). This respect for what they do is still tainted by a lack of respect for their striking - they court themselves as heroes (and if I was saved by one, that's what I'd consider him / her) but do real heroes abandon you in a time of peril? I understand that it's really a catch 22 situation, afterall, they had their livelihoods to think of. However, if the armed forces were given the right to strike, I don't think I could do it.
Gilchrist certainly led the FBU down a dark path that autumn / winter, and I wonder who or how this latest strike has really come about. What is for certain is that the level of political wrangling and spin in all of this is disgusting - people's lives are at stake.
Also, I don't recall that any firefighters actually blockaded equipment, rather they said that if it was used by the military they would consider it u/s until it had been serviced. Hence the reason our RG came from a training unit.
Oh, and I didn't mind if I got abuse from any firemen - I just politely thanked them for all the extra pay I was getting in the form of LSSA

[opso]

...whilst squaddies are working their sox off , firefighters do an equally hazardous (albeit in different areas) job

How many firefighters (including retained) are there and how many have been killed on duty in the past 10 years?
How many servicemen (including reservists) are there and how many have been killed on duty in the past 10 years?

Still reckon that the job is equally hazardous? Reducing the time period of sampling only makes the firefighters job less hazardous by comparison, owing to the impact of Iraq and Afghanistan. Indeed, if trying to show the real level of hazard faced, try the comparison of firefighters against people resurfacing roads and you'll see that the latter claims more lives on the job!

[Ali Barber]

This is a local strike about local issues. The bigger issue would be what happens if the FBU decide to strike nationally, now that the Government has said it has solld off the Green Goddesses and doesn't have enough military personnel to cover for them!

[Controversial Tim]

In that case it's a local strike by local fireshirkers risking local lives, it's OK?

What if there were outsiders there....

[Skeleton]

1. Govt sell (at last) Green Goddesses.

2. FBU start making noises about strike action.

Surely these two events can not be connected

Opso makes some very valid points. Kind of puts into perspective the "Its not what we do, its what were prepared to do" claptrap they love to portray.



Edit... cos i missed a line

[Bluntend]

There is a bit more discussion on this topic over on E-Goat:
http://www.e-goat.co.uk/forums/showthread.php?t=281
and again:
http://www.e-goat.co.uk/forums/showthread.php?t=1032
For what it's worth, many of the contributers on e-goat don't get flying pay and have first hand experience of covering the last fire strike.

[Colonal Mustard]

Originally Posted by opso

How many firefighters (including retained) are there and how many have been killed on duty in the past 10 years?
How many servicemen (including reservists) are there and how many have been killed on duty in the past 10 years?
Still reckon that the job is equally hazardous? Reducing the time period of sampling only makes the firefighters job less hazardous by comparison, owing to the impact of Iraq and Afghanistan. Indeed, if trying to show the real level of hazard faced, try the comparison of firefighters against people resurfacing roads and you'll see that the latter claims more lives on the job!

YES,i do feel they are equally hazardous having done both.....i feel i can comment with knowledge.....valid point though, i think i can safely say that at times when sat in a slit trench with the threat of a mortar round incoming i WOULD rather be tucked up in bed....and conversley when trying to perform resucitation on a 6 year old in a garden who subsequently died after he was pulled out of a house fire i DREAMT of wanting to be in the NAAFI again.

Sorry Moderator if i overstepped

[The Gorilla]

The bottom line if I may be blunt? Those of you who serve do so to protect the rights of those who don't. It is your job to do all the cr*p that this country demands of you so that firemen etc, misguided or not, can go about their daily business iaw the law of the land. Like it or not that's the way it has been, is and always will be. No it isn't fair but then neither is what is happening in Iraq or Afghanistan.

You do however, just like the firemen have a choice in the matter.

You can leave!

[Colonal Mustard]

Originally Posted by The Gorilla

One final point, that man of upstanding integrity Mr Prescott has had his fingers in the Fire Brigade dispute for some time now. He hasn't helped matters at all!!

and in somewhere else according to the news of the world

[opso]

YES,i do feel they are equally hazardous having done both...

I don't deny that the jobs are both emotionally or psychologically demanding and your example deals with that aspect, not the hazardous nature of the job. But the hazard levels aren't the same, or else there would be as many firefighter fatalities as there are military ones... Either firemen are just naturally incredibly lucky (at which point, why don't they win the lottery every week?) or else they face fewer and/or lower grade hazards that are more easily countered than those facing servicemen.

[Colonal Mustard]

Originally Posted by opso

I don't deny that the jobs are both emotionally or psychologically demanding and your example deals with that aspect, not the hazardous nature of the job. But the hazard levels aren't the same, or else there would be as many firefighter fatalities as there are military ones... Either firemen are just naturally incredibly lucky (at which point, why don't they win the lottery every week?) or else they face fewer and/or lower grade hazards that are more easily countered than those facing servicemen.

Or have a strong union that promotes Health & Safety in the workplace,

i absolutely accept that everybody`s views are different on Hazard`s/ risk etc, but pause for thought, i am currently reading a book titled "tail end charlies" by john nicholl,(and a fine read if i may say thus far) in it he describes how the crew of bombers had an exit of just 22 inches within which 5 of the crew had to squeeze through in order to escape the burning fuselage, and i quote " almost criminally too small" by an aviation specialist (page 148).....picture the scene in todays climate (firefighters`s wouldnt go near the plane, as a dynamic risk assessment would take place and it would be deemed too high a risk).the military however would be told to get on with it or face a beasting (or worse...).

In summary

Firefighters have a Health & Safety policy in place as a result of fatalities in the workplace and lessons being learnt as a result.

The Military claim they have a Health & Safety policy in the workplace UNTIL they go to war then it is an acceptable risk.

SOME in the higher chain of command want to advance their careers BEFORE the lives of their staff, in the fire service it would stand less chance of happening because the firefighters are able to air their concerns back to the OIC

oh almost forgot, i must say that the RAF boys & Girls i went on the lash with one evening whilst on strike were absolutely bloody marvellous.

BTW looking at this post it seems to have detracted from the original point.....sorry

[TheInquisitor]

I had worked in the fire service for 9 years, devoting approx 5 out of 7 days per week "on call" 24 hrs per day,my total yearly gross was approx 8 grand

You should have joined full time then, Mustard - youd've been working alot less for alot more money!

Something doesn't smell right about your claims, I'm afraid.

[PPRuNe Towers]

TI - Rural services for example. Plenty of documentation on the interweb thingy if you care to check. Always the easiest units to underequip, kill with a thousand cuts or just dissolve with a sexy centralisation plan.

This despite facing chemical and structural hazards rivalling any urban brigade.

Rob

[4Foxtrot]

I've just been reading 'Rules of Engagement' by our favourite ex-Colonel, Mr Tim Collins. Despite his inflammatory comments about the future if the RAF, he has some choice words to say about Op Fresco:

The phone rings, you say: "Hello, 1 R Irish Fire and Rescue Service. A fire? Where? We'll be right over. You then tell the peeler sitting drinking tea where the fire is and you crash the lads out in the Goddess. When you get there, attach the hoses to the fire hydrant and point the hoses at the fire. Then it's water on, fire out, water off, roll up yer hoses and home for tea and medals. Questions?

While it's good the Forces won't get double tapped for ops and filling in for fire-fighters, I'm relieved that no one has been killed, yet, because the fire-fighters are neglecting their duties. Yes, I would always like more money, and yes, thousands of my colleagues are being made redundant and yes, plenty of my stations are being closed, but no I'm not going to go on strike.

<rant mode>=off

[Colonal Mustard]

Originally Posted by TheInquisitor

Something doesn't smell right about your claims, I'm afraid.

what part, ill gladly confirm it

see below, my last p60, sorry for the size i`ll try to reduce it tommorrow when i get time

[Colonal Mustard]

[ZH875]

I like the bit where it says 'In this employment'


No mention of the second job on this site then Mr Colonel 'French' Mustard