Typhoons an Raptors
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Typhoons an Raptors
Hi
I'm hearing rumours of two Typhoons in the United States (China lake) that are being used for DACT for the Raptors, As expected the BVR side is dominated by the Raptors, but WVR the Typhoons are!!.
Is PIRATE being used?
Is this going to be a regular thing???
Cheers
I'm hearing rumours of two Typhoons in the United States (China lake) that are being used for DACT for the Raptors, As expected the BVR side is dominated by the Raptors, but WVR the Typhoons are!!.
Is PIRATE being used?
Is this going to be a regular thing???
Cheers
So....translated that means using the proper tactics....the Typhoon is dogmeat.
One would think you fight the opponents weakness not his strengths.
One would think you fight the opponents weakness not his strengths.
But Maple....as I understand it the Typhoon has no gun. Even with the improved effieciency of modern missiles for dogfighting...is not the Typhoon at a disadvantage in that regard?
(You are right....our Brass will set us up for failure with the ROE's even if we had Death Rays.)
(You are right....our Brass will set us up for failure with the ROE's even if we had Death Rays.)
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My understanding is that the Raptor smokes its opponents in every facet one would expect from a 5th generation fighter....well you would hope so at US$350 Million a piece if they close the lines down at 183 frames...! (Still sorting the canopy up/down issue but that's another story!) 
Is there an enemy out there that the Raptor will ever face...probably not!!???
Typhoon however, being a jet "Fitted For" but "Not With", will face the wrath of politicians and public alike who have lost faith in a well overdue program that doesn't seem to be able to redeem itself.
Standby for completely unnecessary operational deployments of both types to try and restore public confidence in the platforms.
Vive Le France...
Is there an enemy out there that the Raptor will ever face...probably not!!???
Typhoon however, being a jet "Fitted For" but "Not With", will face the wrath of politicians and public alike who have lost faith in a well overdue program that doesn't seem to be able to redeem itself.
Standby for completely unnecessary operational deployments of both types to try and restore public confidence in the platforms.
Vive Le France...
OB,
We are not supposed to know that....besides why should it matter they have a very expensive piece of ballast and all they can do is throw up two up raised digits at the enemy when they run out of missiles.
We are not supposed to know that....besides why should it matter they have a very expensive piece of ballast and all they can do is throw up two up raised digits at the enemy when they run out of missiles.
Problems
In 2001, it was announced that the RAF would not use the aircraft's internal cannon. This is not due to any perceived inadequacy in the cannon, but instead reflected a need to save money by removing gun support costs, ammunition stocks, training costs, etc. The gun was also deemed unnecessary since the missile armament was believed to be adequate in the Typhoon's fighter role. [8] However, because removal of the cannon would affect the aircraft's flight characteristics, requiring modification of the aircraft's flight software the RAF decided that all of its Typhoons would be fitted with the cannon but that it would not be used or supported. The service argued that this would save money by reducing the requirement for ground equipment, removing training costs and avoiding the fatigue effects of firing the cannon. The RAF maintains the option to activate the cannons at very short notice should operational requirements change. [9]
In 2001, it was announced that the RAF would not use the aircraft's internal cannon. This is not due to any perceived inadequacy in the cannon, but instead reflected a need to save money by removing gun support costs, ammunition stocks, training costs, etc. The gun was also deemed unnecessary since the missile armament was believed to be adequate in the Typhoon's fighter role. [8] However, because removal of the cannon would affect the aircraft's flight characteristics, requiring modification of the aircraft's flight software the RAF decided that all of its Typhoons would be fitted with the cannon but that it would not be used or supported. The service argued that this would save money by reducing the requirement for ground equipment, removing training costs and avoiding the fatigue effects of firing the cannon. The RAF maintains the option to activate the cannons at very short notice should operational requirements change. [9]
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My understanding was that the gun wasn't actually a gun more of a big gun shaped paper weight to help trim the Typhoon? Don't get me wrong i think it's great... Who needs a gun when it looks that good? 
LM
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Typhoon wiped the floor with Raptor in singapore.
It's not just the aircraft - it's the man in the cockpit. And on those terms, we'll win every time. Dry your eyes and deal with it.
It's not just the aircraft - it's the man in the cockpit. And on those terms, we'll win every time. Dry your eyes and deal with it.
Lets hear it for the Hornet driver!
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Originally Posted by TheInquisitor
Typhoon wiped the floor with Raptor in singapore.
It's not just the aircraft - it's the man in the cockpit. And on those terms, we'll win every time. Dry your eyes and deal with it.
It's not just the aircraft - it's the man in the cockpit. And on those terms, we'll win every time. Dry your eyes and deal with it.
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Originally Posted by SASless
Lets hear it for the Hornet driver!
I suspect there's a lot more to this story than the HUD image is telling us...
Magoo
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Originally Posted by TheInquisitor
It's not just the aircraft - it's the man in the cockpit. And on those terms, we'll win every time. Dry your eyes and deal with it.
Unfortunately, the same applies for the RAF.
All too soon, it will be the same for us.
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Originally Posted by Fox3snapshot
Typhoon however, being a jet "Fitted For" but "Not With", will face the wrath of politicians and public alike who have lost faith in a well overdue program that doesn't seem to be able to redeem itself.
Standby for completely unnecessary operational deployments of both types to try and restore public confidence in the platforms.
Vive Le France...
Standby for completely unnecessary operational deployments of both types to try and restore public confidence in the platforms.
Vive Le France...
"Well overdue program that doesn't seem to be able to redeem itself."
Overdue, certainly, but isn't every fighter programme? F-22 and JSF certainly are.
As it is the delayed ISD seems to have been good for budgets and for completing (or getting close to completing) some difficult development aircraft.
As to redeeming itself, the aircraft seemed to impress in Singapore, even if BAE's 'shambolic bid performance' did not, and even if Mindef eventually decided that there was too much risk that the advanced EOC1/2 A-G capabilities it thought it needed might not be available in the timescale promised. The capabilities it did demonstrate (especially radar range and the eye-watering exchange ratio against Sing F-16s apparently impressed the RSAF enough to disagree with Mindef.
It also seems to have redeemed itself with those lucky enough to be flying it, unless the RAF and the other partners have introduced a term at RADA as part of the OCU course.......
The frightening thing is how much misinformation and sheer malicious bollocks has been embedded in the minds of even those who should know better.
Until yesterday, I thought, like many, that the early Tranche 1 jets were incapable of being brought to a really useful op standard. I now know that all but a couple of Luftawffe jets are already under contract for a series of upgrades that will bring them to the full FOC standard (Block 5 with 'austere' A-G capability) and a further upgrade to Tranche 2 (Block 8) standards is cheap and easy enough that Austria's six T1 jets will be done at EF GmH's own expense.
And that is only the tip of the iceberg of damaging LM/Dassault propaganda and auto-foot shooting.
As to what Typhoon has been up to in the States, some of it is necessarily not something to shout about, but I understand that some achievements that could and should have been shouted from the rooftops seem to have been covered by the same security blanket. I believe that 17 haven't only fired ASRAAM, but getting confirmation of the alleged AMRAAM firings is like pulling teeth.
And no RAF jets have PIRATE yet.
Overdue, certainly, but isn't every fighter programme? F-22 and JSF certainly are.
As it is the delayed ISD seems to have been good for budgets and for completing (or getting close to completing) some difficult development aircraft.
As to redeeming itself, the aircraft seemed to impress in Singapore, even if BAE's 'shambolic bid performance' did not, and even if Mindef eventually decided that there was too much risk that the advanced EOC1/2 A-G capabilities it thought it needed might not be available in the timescale promised. The capabilities it did demonstrate (especially radar range and the eye-watering exchange ratio against Sing F-16s apparently impressed the RSAF enough to disagree with Mindef.
It also seems to have redeemed itself with those lucky enough to be flying it, unless the RAF and the other partners have introduced a term at RADA as part of the OCU course.......
The frightening thing is how much misinformation and sheer malicious bollocks has been embedded in the minds of even those who should know better.
Until yesterday, I thought, like many, that the early Tranche 1 jets were incapable of being brought to a really useful op standard. I now know that all but a couple of Luftawffe jets are already under contract for a series of upgrades that will bring them to the full FOC standard (Block 5 with 'austere' A-G capability) and a further upgrade to Tranche 2 (Block 8) standards is cheap and easy enough that Austria's six T1 jets will be done at EF GmH's own expense.
And that is only the tip of the iceberg of damaging LM/Dassault propaganda and auto-foot shooting.
As to what Typhoon has been up to in the States, some of it is necessarily not something to shout about, but I understand that some achievements that could and should have been shouted from the rooftops seem to have been covered by the same security blanket. I believe that 17 haven't only fired ASRAAM, but getting confirmation of the alleged AMRAAM firings is like pulling teeth.
And no RAF jets have PIRATE yet.
Ecce Homo! Loquitur...
WASHINGTON, May 16 (Reuters) - .......Earlier this month, the Air Force said it would cost about $100 million to fix structural weaknesses discovered in 73 F-22s. It denied a published report that the repairs could cost $1 billion...... 
Both the Typhoon and the F-22 were designed to dominate the BVR threat, defined at the time as Su-27, improved Su-27 and whatever the follow-on might be.
Both are better at that than their predecessors. However, until the fighter sensor people, the offboard-sensor people and the network-type people can defeat a well designed and functional stealth aircraft, the F-22 has a huge advantage and so far I have not heard of any tactical dirty tricks that can offset it.
However, it cost so much money that the RAF expects to have more Typhoons than the USAF has F-22s.
Both are better at that than their predecessors. However, until the fighter sensor people, the offboard-sensor people and the network-type people can defeat a well designed and functional stealth aircraft, the F-22 has a huge advantage and so far I have not heard of any tactical dirty tricks that can offset it.
However, it cost so much money that the RAF expects to have more Typhoons than the USAF has F-22s.
