New FRI
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New FRI
Any word on a new FRI. I heard a couple of colleagues discussing this topic yesterday and was wondering how the lords and masters view the current aircrew exodus. How will they put an end to it. Is it just Sqn Ldrs they need or what?
I understand that FRI 3 is on its way as an attempt to stem the outflow of trained pilots. I believe that it will be carefully targetted so I would guess that you can expect it to be targetted at FJ and Helo mates and probably at Flt Lt rank. Sadly I am probably too old for this one 
But then again this is a Rumour network and what do I know!
.
But then again this is a Rumour network and what do I know! .
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Yep, that makes sense. Although on a not so recent trawl of SO2 jobs at Gp, PMA were appartly delighted that all posts were manned. Then someone advised them that 35% of those jobs were gapped with some mates having 2 or 3 portfolios.
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If anyone has any news/rumours on this can they post, please. Life-changing decisions to be made!
I'm assuming this is for 1 Apr 2007 onwards when the current system is due to end?
Thanks
ps in the spirit of PPRuNe I should add: My jets better than your jet, I'm more important than you, the army and navy are wothless and you dont have an opinion cos you dont know what I know.
I'm assuming this is for 1 Apr 2007 onwards when the current system is due to end?
Thanks
ps in the spirit of PPRuNe I should add: My jets better than your jet, I'm more important than you, the army and navy are wothless and you dont have an opinion cos you dont know what I know.
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Yep - but there is already a system in place for people with exit dates before 1 Apr 07 (£50k gross/£30k net). If your exit date is 1 Apr 07 or later you will currently get nothing for staying in, if I recall correctly.
Although we all know that if you work it out you will be much better off in the long run if you leave, there is a big temptation for people to take the easy option of do nothing - get 30 grand in your bank account.
Although we all know that if you work it out you will be much better off in the long run if you leave, there is a big temptation for people to take the easy option of do nothing - get 30 grand in your bank account.
Inter Arma Enim Silentius Lex Legis
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And don't forget of course, that if you are on an FRI now and they decide not to renew it you have three months to accept the change of conditions. If like me you decide not to, they cannot stop you from leaving at the end of that three month period. Not a lot of people know that!
Handy if you should have a job lined up..
Handy if you should have a job lined up..
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FRI for all three services??
FRI might be on the cards for FJ and blue coloured helicopter crew but in the green machine there are more aircrew than they know what to do with and that's not getting any better.
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On a general FRI point, I've never believed in paying everyone the same whether front seat/back seat/FJ/rotary/multi. Its expensive madness. If you're short of rotary mates for the next few years then rotary mates get the bonus, if you're short of navs(
) then they get the bonus. Everyone else just get on with it. Don't pay knackered 48 year olds who are never going to do anything but stay in. It aint rocket science. So why do "they" do it?
) then they get the bonus. Everyone else just get on with it. Don't pay knackered 48 year olds who are never going to do anything but stay in. It aint rocket science. So why do "they" do it?
FRI 2?? It is £50k gross but it's only £29500 net (40% income tax and about £500 in NI contributions - that appeared on the following month's statement; sneaky b@stards!).
Still it made sure I had enough money in my account for the crowning turd in the waterpipe that is JPA...
LJ
Still it made sure I had enough money in my account for the crowning turd in the waterpipe that is JPA...
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Nose Gunner
True, the knackered 48 year olds, as you put it, are the experienced and probably taught you all you know.
They have to remain there for the distance to get the pension - it's too late for them to aspire as CAS
Please explain your petulance and arrogance - are you destined to be a future CAS or a knackered 48 year old ?
With your attitude, I wouldn't even risk money on you achieving your 48th birthday
Tesco are recruiting people over age 48, paying differential rates, depending on the job, which must be a safer option for you in the longer term
True, the knackered 48 year olds, as you put it, are the experienced and probably taught you all you know.
They have to remain there for the distance to get the pension - it's too late for them to aspire as CAS
Please explain your petulance and arrogance - are you destined to be a future CAS or a knackered 48 year old ?
With your attitude, I wouldn't even risk money on you achieving your 48th birthday
Tesco are recruiting people over age 48, paying differential rates, depending on the job, which must be a safer option for you in the longer term
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Buoy15
didn't think NG was being either of those things, just articulating the simple financial certainty that FRIs must be focussed on those to whom it will retain, where retention is in the best interests of the Service. I am sure we all think we are worth a nice big handout, but if our individual specializations are not causing problems, why pay us to stay if we are going to anyway?
didn't think NG was being either of those things, just articulating the simple financial certainty that FRIs must be focussed on those to whom it will retain, where retention is in the best interests of the Service. I am sure we all think we are worth a nice big handout, but if our individual specializations are not causing problems, why pay us to stay if we are going to anyway?
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Buoy
Southbound got my point, a few more chill pills required for you, I think!
Not only knackered 48 year olds but knackered back-seat 48 year olds taught me a fair bit! And of the 2 CAS/old git options I will probably expect to be a knackered 48 year old waiting for my 55 point - and certainly wont expect the treasury to give me a "retention incentive" at that point!
And are you saying that from my last post you think I will die early? Doesnt sound good.
And.......breath out......relax
Southbound got my point, a few more chill pills required for you, I think!
Not only knackered 48 year olds but knackered back-seat 48 year olds taught me a fair bit! And of the 2 CAS/old git options I will probably expect to be a knackered 48 year old waiting for my 55 point - and certainly wont expect the treasury to give me a "retention incentive" at that point!
And are you saying that from my last post you think I will die early? Doesnt sound good.
And.......breath out......relax
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I will probably expect to be a knackered 48 year old waiting for my 55 point - and certainly wont expect the treasury to give me a "retention incentive" at that point!
We all understand where you're coming from, but I think you missed something. Most 48 year-old, flt lt aircrew already have a massive retention incentive - PAS and the new AFPS05! Together, these give the lucky recipients a pension at age 55 that (in many cases) betters a wg cdr's.
The problem that now faces PMA is to encourage younger career spine personnel to stay. However, because there are strict limits to the number of PAS that can be signed on, we have developed a demographic bulge of aircrew that prevents us from keeping younger guys by offering them PAS.
I'm really not sure how they can get themselves out of this one - other than by reducing PAS pay and redirecting that money to career spine aircrew.
Last edited by LFFC; 26th Apr 2006 at 12:57.
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Yep - we all agree, but we keep saying things like I agree more!
The thread is about FRI, not PAS or retention. Apologies to the OP - it seems to have gone a bit off track. So, does anybody have any info on the plans for FRI?
The thread is about FRI, not PAS or retention. Apologies to the OP - it seems to have gone a bit off track. So, does anybody have any info on the plans for FRI?
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There is an interesting argument that goes...
... if it costs £X million to recruit and train a pilot and we are getting Y years service out of them on average before they disappear off to the airlines, and we want some of them to stay on for another Z years, then anything less than X/Y per year is a bargain. Hmmmm, if you believe the blurb that it costs at least £3M per pilot and we get 16 years out of them (which we don't!), then the financial argument says anything up to £187500 PA is a good deal, especially when the crews are already effective, don't need to do 3 years training/holding/growing up...
Not that I think that is a good idea....
... if it costs £X million to recruit and train a pilot and we are getting Y years service out of them on average before they disappear off to the airlines, and we want some of them to stay on for another Z years, then anything less than X/Y per year is a bargain. Hmmmm, if you believe the blurb that it costs at least £3M per pilot and we get 16 years out of them (which we don't!), then the financial argument says anything up to £187500 PA is a good deal, especially when the crews are already effective, don't need to do 3 years training/holding/growing up...
Not that I think that is a good idea....
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NG
I'm sorry, but I thought the "R" in FRI stood for Retention! The fact is that they are all very closely related and you can't talk about one thing without mentioning the other.
It hardly makes sense to offer someone an FRI at age 36 then not offer him PAS at age 38/40. But at the same time to have a large, ageing team of PAS who are not being replaced due to their high cost.
The thread is about FRI, not PAS or retention.
It hardly makes sense to offer someone an FRI at age 36 then not offer him PAS at age 38/40. But at the same time to have a large, ageing team of PAS who are not being replaced due to their high cost.
