New FRI
Join Date: Dec 2002
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I think times have changed to the extent that you can't rely on showing Top Gun on ITV and getting a flood of fodder thro OASC. Those considering a career in aviation are more savvy these days and whilst there will always be a cohort of youngsters intent on flying the latest whizz jet, others are realising that Mil life brings with it more time away, fighting someone else's war for less money than their counterparts.
The MOD needs to become an attractive employer. And it's not at the moment.
Are we likely to see a flood of F/L promoted before their time to fill a gap ?
The MOD needs to become an attractive employer. And it's not at the moment.
Are we likely to see a flood of F/L promoted before their time to fill a gap ?
Champagne anyone...?
Or there's crazy fools like me that accept PA 
I just like going on det 
Fairly confident though that if there is a new FRI i will, for some reason, miss out. Probably by one day knowing my luck
I just like going on det Fairly confident though that if there is a new FRI i will, for some reason, miss out. Probably by one day knowing my luck
Reference sub 38 yr old Sqn Ldrs leaving at their option point, rather than try to maintain a failing system, I can offer the following solutions to this problem:
a) Promote less Sqn Ldrs to Wg Cdrs, so the Sqn Ldrs who stay in at 38 do more time in Sqn Ldr posts. We already have far more Wg Cdrs than we need (about 1,200 I think?)
b) Look at all the jobs done by Sqn Ldrs and work out how many could be done by competent Flt Lts (probably about 80%+). Rank creep has been getting into the system for years!
c) Promote Flt Lt aircrew (all officers) to Sqn Ldr on the basis of time. The engineers virtually do this already - or they used to. About 90% of engineers used to make Sqn Ldr, all you had to do was look in the RAF list and find there were more Sqn Ldr engineers than Flt Lts, an inverted pyramid - I think it was a way of making up for their lack of flying pay, a retention/recruitment method?
It only took me a couple of minutes to come up with those solutions - who knows what I could achieve if I were a senior officer and given more time to think about it .........
In case you hadn't noticed some of the above was tongue in cheek - but not all of it.........
a) Promote less Sqn Ldrs to Wg Cdrs, so the Sqn Ldrs who stay in at 38 do more time in Sqn Ldr posts. We already have far more Wg Cdrs than we need (about 1,200 I think?)
b) Look at all the jobs done by Sqn Ldrs and work out how many could be done by competent Flt Lts (probably about 80%+). Rank creep has been getting into the system for years!
c) Promote Flt Lt aircrew (all officers) to Sqn Ldr on the basis of time. The engineers virtually do this already - or they used to. About 90% of engineers used to make Sqn Ldr, all you had to do was look in the RAF list and find there were more Sqn Ldr engineers than Flt Lts, an inverted pyramid - I think it was a way of making up for their lack of flying pay, a retention/recruitment method?
It only took me a couple of minutes to come up with those solutions - who knows what I could achieve if I were a senior officer and given more time to think about it .........
In case you hadn't noticed some of the above was tongue in cheek - but not all of it.........
Join Date: Sep 2005
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Originally Posted by NoseGunner
On a general FRI point, I've never believed in paying everyone the same whether front seat/back seat/FJ/rotary/multi. Its expensive madness. If you're short of rotary mates for the next few years then rotary mates get the bonus, if you're short of navs(
) then they get the bonus. Everyone else just get on with it. Don't pay knackered 48 year olds who are never going to do anything but stay in. It aint rocket science. So why do "they" do it?
) then they get the bonus. Everyone else just get on with it. Don't pay knackered 48 year olds who are never going to do anything but stay in. It aint rocket science. So why do "they" do it?
Join Date: Feb 2001
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PMA can't be that short of experienced pilots.
I have been a volunteer for a change of commission to a PC for 3 years. When they finally offered the PC it was on 18/40 terms while I would remain on Pension 75 (16/38). Didn't make sense to me so turned it down but wrote a letter to PMA explaining that I would have accepted a 16/38 PC giving the RAF another 6 years of sevice for no more cost than anyone else on a PC, no FRI etc.
That was 3 mths ago and I have not heard back.
I have been a volunteer for a change of commission to a PC for 3 years. When they finally offered the PC it was on 18/40 terms while I would remain on Pension 75 (16/38). Didn't make sense to me so turned it down but wrote a letter to PMA explaining that I would have accepted a 16/38 PC giving the RAF another 6 years of sevice for no more cost than anyone else on a PC, no FRI etc.
That was 3 mths ago and I have not heard back.
Join Date: Jun 2006
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Accepted PA staying in. Hate the niff naff but love the fg. If they want to pay me more great, it will help pay the mortgage. Aiming for 48 and not too knackered. Agree with the Sqn Ldr problem. All the Flt Cdrs I know are planning to leave at 38.
Join Date: Jun 2006
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If Sqn Ldr retention is the problem not too sure that extra money is the real solution. Make the job more interesting and give back some job satisfaction and quality of life and people will want to stay. Giving money makes it a push factor later when you take it away.
Join Date: Jun 2001
Location: Too far North - hardly a RAF base that isn't these days...
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Originally Posted by Hueymeister
Rumour has it we are light of about 200+ career spine Sqn Ldrs, and the remaining ones will be the targetted beneficiaries of the said FRI. Anyone confirm/deny it?
Can't see that flying sqns need 'em anyway. All the sqns I've been on have run just as, if not more, smoothly without them hanging around making 'important' decisions.
What we do appear to be short of is experienced guys in their 40s, you know, the ones who wouuld've been around had they not taken the redundancy packages a few years back (and who can blame them). There's gonna be a big 'hole' when the current batch of 50-somethings put their feet up at home not work.
Last edited by Confucius; 17th Jun 2006 at 18:55.
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Perhaps we have made it too competitive getting to Sqn Ldr. Having worked with the Army, they aren't all organising charity blindfolded canoe expeds whilst also being Mess Sec in the hope of making themselves stand out. Spending all that time doing secondary duties means that some of my colleagues are blind to what the rest of the RAF does, but they can write a cracking set of minutes...
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It's not at all like the Army, but are we breeding generations who are afraid to stick their necks out? I derived great satisfaction from leading a flight on ops and I used to have a Boss who always told me that being in charge was 'not a popularity contest', but he used to mean popularity with those above since he adored being in charge and he would go out of his way to get the best for his blokes - that seems much rarer now, or perhaps I am too bogged down with my secondary duties to notice...
Join Date: Jun 2002
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PATB
Do tell old chap...sounds like good gen - I have heard in deepest here that the FRI IS coming, and will be 'surgically' aimed, but have heard nothing more other than speculation as to the targets (seems to be CS Sqn Ldr's/RW/the odd fast jet mate depending on type) - any info may help inform my imminent decision!
Do tell old chap...sounds like good gen - I have heard in deepest here that the FRI IS coming, and will be 'surgically' aimed, but have heard nothing more other than speculation as to the targets (seems to be CS Sqn Ldr's/RW/the odd fast jet mate depending on type) - any info may help inform my imminent decision!
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It would be a grave mistake not to target the PAS guys in their early/mid forties as well. They are just as likely to PVR as the CS Sqn Ldrs, taking their professional aviator experience with them.
If they (the PAS) go, we lose a large chunk of the deputy Flt Cdrs, FI's, QFI's, QWI's etc - in other words many of the people on the Sqns that enable the task to get done because their time is not devoted to being promoted.
If they (the PAS) go, we lose a large chunk of the deputy Flt Cdrs, FI's, QFI's, QWI's etc - in other words many of the people on the Sqns that enable the task to get done because their time is not devoted to being promoted.
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Originally Posted by Axial Flo
It would be a grave mistake not to target the PAS guys in their early/mid forties as well. They are just as likely to PVR as the CS Sqn Ldrs, taking their professional aviator experience with them.
If they (the PAS) go, we lose a large chunk of the deputy Flt Cdrs, FI's, QFI's, QWI's etc - in other words many of the people on the Sqns that enable the task to get done because their time is not devoted to being promoted.
If they (the PAS) go, we lose a large chunk of the deputy Flt Cdrs, FI's, QFI's, QWI's etc - in other words many of the people on the Sqns that enable the task to get done because their time is not devoted to being promoted.
I suspect that the people they are planning to target with a new FRI are those that have stayed on the old pension scheme (and are perhaps therefore planning to leave before age 55) and who possess the skills they need to keep.
What are the skills they need? My guess is mainly, but not exclusively, pilots and those with strong leadership and management ability (mainly sqn ldrs and those with potential for even higher rank).
One thing's for sure though - with all the stealth cuts (JPA) and budget squeezes that I see and hear about, they must be pretty desperate if they really are considering throwing money at the problem!
Last edited by LFFC; 29th Jun 2006 at 22:48.
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[QUOTE]
Don't assume old chap that all PAS mates have jumped to AFPS05. I for one wouldn't touch it - that decision is not solely based on the fact that I may leave before 55, but there are a number of clauses that make it unattractive.
Originally Posted by LFFC
The assumption seems to be that, if you're already PAS, you're bound to have swapped to the new AFPS05 and therefore have already got the biggest retention incentive available - flying, more pay, and a whopping big pension when you finally retire! Loosing a few of the current crop of PAS would reduce the huge pension burden and free up a few PAS slots for younger aircrew approaching their IRD.quote]