Future Carrier (Including Costs)
Of course - but then it that case they could just fly out direct from the UK - the carrier is irrelevant (shades of the arguments in the '60's) if they have to use land bases
Sir Max Hastings on Radio4 BBC this morning rubbishing the Qe class as "totally irrelevant" and saying they should be sold off or mothballed.......................
Sir Max Hastings on Radio4 BBC this morning rubbishing the Qe class as "totally irrelevant" and saying they should be sold off or mothballed.
As noted above maritime expertise is not one of his strong suits.
He did sound a very bitter man........................
Well he can of course - Eurotunnel and then a hell of a fuel & toll bill.................
Where Hastings was correct IMHO was that deploying a QE to the Fareast isn't going to frighten President Xi
Where Hastings was correct IMHO was that deploying a QE to the Fareast isn't going to frighten President Xi
Who said anything about trying to frighten Putin or Xi? The purpose of the deployment is to renew and reinforce the UK's relations with our friends and allies all over the world by exercising with their own armed forces, as well as showcasing British design and technology and hosting high profile diplomatic events. Royal Navy capital ships have been doing this for very many years, delivering the type of soft power that is beyond the brutalist and largely friendless regimes of Russia and China.
VMFA 211 embarking next week, apparently 10 cabs. Work-up in Ex Strike Warrior, prior to heading East. Delivery schedule of our F35s constrained by budget profile, will be easier next year and the year after..
See WEBF's post #6135 above quoting form the Defence review (his emphasis)
" Russia will be more active around the wider European neighbourhood, and Iran and North Korea will continue to destabilise their regions. The significant impact of China’s military modernisation and growing international assertiveness within the Indo-Pacific region and beyond will pose an increasing risk to UK interests.
Page 64 - China’s growing international stature is by far the most significant geopolitical factor in the world today, with major implications for British values and interests and for the structure and shape of the international order. The fact that China is an authoritarian state, with different values to ours, presents challenges for the UK and our allies........................ but China also presents the biggest state-based threat to the UK’s economic security.
.......................We will not hesitate to stand up for our values and our interests where they are threatened, or when China acts in breach of existing agreements. The UK has responded to China’s actions in Hong Kong by creating a new immigration route for British Nationals (Overseas) and their eligible family members and dependents, and to China’s human rights violations in Xinjiang through measures to ensure that British organisations are neither complicit in nor profiting from them.
Page 93 - [We will] Deploy more of our naval assets across the world to protect shipping lanes and uphold freedom of navigation. The Joint Maritime Security Centre will support this, strengthening operational maritime coordination across government. The Royal Navy’s Maritime Component Command in Bahrain will continue to ensure the flow of trade in the Gulf, including through support to part of the new International Maritime Security Construct.
" Russia will be more active around the wider European neighbourhood, and Iran and North Korea will continue to destabilise their regions. The significant impact of China’s military modernisation and growing international assertiveness within the Indo-Pacific region and beyond will pose an increasing risk to UK interests.
Page 64 - China’s growing international stature is by far the most significant geopolitical factor in the world today, with major implications for British values and interests and for the structure and shape of the international order. The fact that China is an authoritarian state, with different values to ours, presents challenges for the UK and our allies........................ but China also presents the biggest state-based threat to the UK’s economic security.
.......................We will not hesitate to stand up for our values and our interests where they are threatened, or when China acts in breach of existing agreements. The UK has responded to China’s actions in Hong Kong by creating a new immigration route for British Nationals (Overseas) and their eligible family members and dependents, and to China’s human rights violations in Xinjiang through measures to ensure that British organisations are neither complicit in nor profiting from them.
Page 93 - [We will] Deploy more of our naval assets across the world to protect shipping lanes and uphold freedom of navigation. The Joint Maritime Security Centre will support this, strengthening operational maritime coordination across government. The Royal Navy’s Maritime Component Command in Bahrain will continue to ensure the flow of trade in the Gulf, including through support to part of the new International Maritime Security Construct.
Thread Starter
The Lightning Force is not deploying in its entirety - as that would cause problems with training and growing the force. The same also applies for other elements such as the Merlin. We should remember that this is not an all out response to a crisis. HMS Prince of Wales will be doing trials and training soon and will need some cabs. There are other operational activities too - like NATO activities such as BALTOPS and in the Atlantic and Arctic.
According to this description of the deployment:The Carrier Strike Group will participate in NATO exercises such as Exercise Steadfast Defender, and provide support to NATO Operation Sea Guardian and security operations in the Black Sea.
In total, units from the group visit more than 40 countries and undertake in excess of 70 engagements, visits, air exercises and operations.
Also on Euro Atlantic security:
Merlin helicopters arrive on HMS Queen Elizabeth...
In all, seven Merlin helicopters (three with Crowsnest and four for anti-submarine warfare) from Royal Naval Air Station Culdrose in Cornwall will join the carrier and will be the airborne guardians of the strike group.
Between them, they will defend the carrier and her escorts from threats below the waves, on the surface and in the air.
I was initially a tiny bit confused by the wording, as Crowsnest is supposed to be a role fit that is fitted to the HM2 as and when. If the Crowsnest kit is removed and the ASW gear put back, the aircraft goers back to being a Pinger. I am not sure if one of the frigates is going to carry a Merlin, but I do recall that during WESTLANT 19 three Merlin HM2s aboard Queen Elizabeth and a Type 23 with towed array sonar and a Merlin were able to provide continuous ASW cover for the carrier and her small group, but covering a larger area demands more frigates and more Pingers. It does reinforce the case for 820 NAS taking nine Merlin HM2s to sea, so if three are doing the ASaCs role, there are six dedicated to ASW, with Jungly Merlin HC4s relieving them of things such as SAR and utility roles. Six dedicated ASW cabs with dipping sonar etc, plus another one or two flying from frigates.
They did manage to put nine aboard HMS Illustrious for Exercise Deep Blue in June/July 2014, with another on the accompanying frigate.
With the utility and SAR taskings being picked up largely by Jungly HC4s, six aircraft with a five hour endurance can probably achieve the same level of ASW coverage as a squadron of nine aircraft with a four hour endurance (the old Sea King), with those nine also having to perform utility roles as often keeping a helicopter on standby for SAR.
According to this description of the deployment:The Carrier Strike Group will participate in NATO exercises such as Exercise Steadfast Defender, and provide support to NATO Operation Sea Guardian and security operations in the Black Sea.
In total, units from the group visit more than 40 countries and undertake in excess of 70 engagements, visits, air exercises and operations.
Also on Euro Atlantic security:
Merlin helicopters arrive on HMS Queen Elizabeth...
In all, seven Merlin helicopters (three with Crowsnest and four for anti-submarine warfare) from Royal Naval Air Station Culdrose in Cornwall will join the carrier and will be the airborne guardians of the strike group.
Between them, they will defend the carrier and her escorts from threats below the waves, on the surface and in the air.
I was initially a tiny bit confused by the wording, as Crowsnest is supposed to be a role fit that is fitted to the HM2 as and when. If the Crowsnest kit is removed and the ASW gear put back, the aircraft goers back to being a Pinger. I am not sure if one of the frigates is going to carry a Merlin, but I do recall that during WESTLANT 19 three Merlin HM2s aboard Queen Elizabeth and a Type 23 with towed array sonar and a Merlin were able to provide continuous ASW cover for the carrier and her small group, but covering a larger area demands more frigates and more Pingers. It does reinforce the case for 820 NAS taking nine Merlin HM2s to sea, so if three are doing the ASaCs role, there are six dedicated to ASW, with Jungly Merlin HC4s relieving them of things such as SAR and utility roles. Six dedicated ASW cabs with dipping sonar etc, plus another one or two flying from frigates.
They did manage to put nine aboard HMS Illustrious for Exercise Deep Blue in June/July 2014, with another on the accompanying frigate.
With the utility and SAR taskings being picked up largely by Jungly HC4s, six aircraft with a five hour endurance can probably achieve the same level of ASW coverage as a squadron of nine aircraft with a four hour endurance (the old Sea King), with those nine also having to perform utility roles as often keeping a helicopter on standby for SAR.
Last edited by WE Branch Fanatic; 27th Apr 2021 at 23:59.
Suspicion breeds confidence
I would have thought it would make more sense to put a Merlin on each of the T23s and a Wildcat on the T45s. Interesting that Sea Venom will be carried. I didn't notice they declared IOC.
"The Lightning Force is not deploying in its entirety - as that would cause problems "
and you don't put all your very very expensive eggs in one basket either....................
and you don't put all your very very expensive eggs in one basket either....................
