Future Carrier (Including Costs)
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Go here for the beer: http://www.pprune.org/military-aviat...ml#post9507288
Captain Nick Walker Provides An Update on the Queen Elizabeth Class Carrier at the Williams Foundation Air-Sea Seminar 2016-09-06 By Robbin Laird
http://www.sldinfo.com/captain-nick-...r-sea-seminar/
Captain Nick Walker Provides An Update on the Queen Elizabeth Class Carrier at the Williams Foundation Air-Sea Seminar 2016-09-06 By Robbin Laird
http://www.sldinfo.com/captain-nick-...r-sea-seminar/
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T45 as the "wingman of an F-35 eh?
Well the F-35 better be based close to Plymouth or Portsmouth - last year 4 of the T45's did less that 60 days at sea - the "T45 fleet" spent 1500 + days tied up
Well the F-35 better be based close to Plymouth or Portsmouth - last year 4 of the T45's did less that 60 days at sea - the "T45 fleet" spent 1500 + days tied up
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Well the F-35 better be based close to Plymouth or Portsmouth - last year 4 of the T45's did less that 60 days at sea - the "T45 fleet" spent 1500 + days tied up
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These ships are radical designs and of their time. I spent a short period of service onboard T45 at the scrag end of my career and they seemed to my non technical eye, in a word -fantastic. But I can know they require a lot of good technicians, skilled engineers and competent operators, at many levels.
Are they (T45) not alongside because the RN has simply not enough of these people? and doesn't pay them enough to hold onto them anyway? The situation will only deteriorate further when the carrier (s) arrive with their aircraft (whatever they are). I've been slated on here in the past for saying this but to man our ships we have to make it (1) Easier for the ratings in that the deployments are managed with sensible rotations. (2) massively increase the pay to match civilian offshore oil and gas level standard (3) cut the utter traditional bull**** and make it a happier environment in which to actually serve or take part in. Otherwise we will remain to have a small selection of challenging ships with no one to man them. HS2 rail link thing, Hinkley power station build, the new offshore wind farm build of the Humber, to name but three are going to suck in a large proportion of good technically qualified or trainable for such people. What is the RN offering in a way of a career against those?
Need radical ideas here.
I suggest looser RN contracts. Do they call this the gig economy now? Paid for a period of work, then you move on perhaps outside the RN to a civilian build project, and so on. The days the RN would grab people in its claws... - they are over. Bright people wont do it, or put up with it. even not so bright people wont....Need some radical new ideas. The Navy has got to loosen up a bit... Other countries military drift in and out of service (Israel for example) Could we?
Are they (T45) not alongside because the RN has simply not enough of these people? and doesn't pay them enough to hold onto them anyway? The situation will only deteriorate further when the carrier (s) arrive with their aircraft (whatever they are). I've been slated on here in the past for saying this but to man our ships we have to make it (1) Easier for the ratings in that the deployments are managed with sensible rotations. (2) massively increase the pay to match civilian offshore oil and gas level standard (3) cut the utter traditional bull**** and make it a happier environment in which to actually serve or take part in. Otherwise we will remain to have a small selection of challenging ships with no one to man them. HS2 rail link thing, Hinkley power station build, the new offshore wind farm build of the Humber, to name but three are going to suck in a large proportion of good technically qualified or trainable for such people. What is the RN offering in a way of a career against those?
Need radical ideas here.
I suggest looser RN contracts. Do they call this the gig economy now? Paid for a period of work, then you move on perhaps outside the RN to a civilian build project, and so on. The days the RN would grab people in its claws... - they are over. Bright people wont do it, or put up with it. even not so bright people wont....Need some radical new ideas. The Navy has got to loosen up a bit... Other countries military drift in and out of service (Israel for example) Could we?
Last edited by Hangarshuffle; 19th Sep 2016 at 20:33.
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Totally agree HS - I've also been hammered on here for suggesting the Carriers would hoover up all the matelots we have.
Interesting ideas about a "flexible" armed forces - but it would mean a MAJOR change - if people are in & out they won't accept the small minded disciplinarians and stupid rules.
Of course good NCO's and Officers lead from the front and will have no problem but unfortunatley there are still too many who fall back on "I out rank you - do what I say"
Interesting ideas about a "flexible" armed forces - but it would mean a MAJOR change - if people are in & out they won't accept the small minded disciplinarians and stupid rules.
Of course good NCO's and Officers lead from the front and will have no problem but unfortunatley there are still too many who fall back on "I out rank you - do what I say"
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damn sure they are only too aware but has any SO actually spoken out and started a serious debate about it??
I don't think so....... they'll wait until they retire and then talk to the Beeb or the Torygraph saying what a disgrace it is................... Maybe we have to pay more money, maybe more flexible detachments but something has to be done.
I'm also sure it affects all the armed forces - but you can still march around with 10% less infantry in a battalion or you just trim the flying hours if you don't have enough airframe guys - on a ship there is a definite minimum crew and if you can't meet that it goes nowhere - like the T45's last year
I don't think so....... they'll wait until they retire and then talk to the Beeb or the Torygraph saying what a disgrace it is................... Maybe we have to pay more money, maybe more flexible detachments but something has to be done.
I'm also sure it affects all the armed forces - but you can still march around with 10% less infantry in a battalion or you just trim the flying hours if you don't have enough airframe guys - on a ship there is a definite minimum crew and if you can't meet that it goes nowhere - like the T45's last year
Thread Starter
Is making a public fuss really the best way of doing things? Is there a magic pot of money for recruiting extra people? The RN was meant to get an uplift of 3000 people last year.....
If not - then they would be better of trying to manage what we do have.
However:
....on a ship there is a definite minimum crew and if you can't meet that it goes nowhere - like the T45's last year
Apart from HM Ships Dauntless, Defender, Dragon, and Duncan which all deployed in 2015. Interestingly perhaps, the other two (Daring and Diamond) have both recently deployed on operations.
If not - then they would be better of trying to manage what we do have.
However:
....on a ship there is a definite minimum crew and if you can't meet that it goes nowhere - like the T45's last year
Apart from HM Ships Dauntless, Defender, Dragon, and Duncan which all deployed in 2015. Interestingly perhaps, the other two (Daring and Diamond) have both recently deployed on operations.
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The RN was meant to get an uplift of 3000 people last year.....
And what actually transpired?
Oh hang on I've seen the reality TV program, that was bound to have them flooding through the gates...
And what actually transpired?
Oh hang on I've seen the reality TV program, that was bound to have them flooding through the gates...
I'm reasonably sure you've put an extra "0" there compared to what was actually announced.
If it helps, annual recruitment has actually increased from circa 1500 post SDSR2010 to nearly 2300 now. Of course that's not "Net" increase - but at least the issue is well recognised and attempts being made to address it.
The current state of the commercial maritime market - in the toilet - won't hurt either.....
If it helps, annual recruitment has actually increased from circa 1500 post SDSR2010 to nearly 2300 now. Of course that's not "Net" increase - but at least the issue is well recognised and attempts being made to address it.
The current state of the commercial maritime market - in the toilet - won't hurt either.....
The manpower uplift as announced:
Ministry of Defence
Armed Forces
HL1238
Asked by Lord Touhig Asked on: 14 July 2016
To ask Her Majesty’s Government, in the light of the level of recruitment forecast in the 2015 Strategic Defence and Security Review, what assessment they have made of the Armed Forces' ability to undertake the range of tasks they face.
Answered by: Earl Howe Answered on: 26 July 2016
The Strategic Defence and Security Review 2015 (SDSR 2015) ensured that investment in capability - including personnel - remained in balance with financial requirements, with a focus on matching capability to policy throughout the Review. To fully deliver future Defence commitments, the SDSR also set out plans for investment in an additional uplift of 400 personnel for the Royal Navy and 300 for the Royal Air Force. This will ensure that the Armed Forces continue to have the capabilities and skills needed to meet global obligations.
Armed Forces
HL1238
Asked by Lord Touhig Asked on: 14 July 2016
To ask Her Majesty’s Government, in the light of the level of recruitment forecast in the 2015 Strategic Defence and Security Review, what assessment they have made of the Armed Forces' ability to undertake the range of tasks they face.
Answered by: Earl Howe Answered on: 26 July 2016
The Strategic Defence and Security Review 2015 (SDSR 2015) ensured that investment in capability - including personnel - remained in balance with financial requirements, with a focus on matching capability to policy throughout the Review. To fully deliver future Defence commitments, the SDSR also set out plans for investment in an additional uplift of 400 personnel for the Royal Navy and 300 for the Royal Air Force. This will ensure that the Armed Forces continue to have the capabilities and skills needed to meet global obligations.
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I think there is a lot of issues with recruitment across the armed forces asides from purely fninancial issues. For example, once you are over 25 you are not eligible for a lot of the roles, at officer level anyway. Obviously there has to be a cut off point, but seriously why can't someone who is 28/29/30 join as a Warfare Officer or Pilot etc.
Then you have some of the draconian health limitations, if you've had childhood asthma you aren't eligible for aircrew, most GPs will tell you that half the nation had asthma when they were children and naturally grew out of it.
If they really want to attract and recruit the best then they need to stop some of their silly nonsense at the recruitment level. Unfortunately they lost me to civvy street, a sad end to my families long, long lineage of service in HM forces!
Then you have some of the draconian health limitations, if you've had childhood asthma you aren't eligible for aircrew, most GPs will tell you that half the nation had asthma when they were children and naturally grew out of it.
If they really want to attract and recruit the best then they need to stop some of their silly nonsense at the recruitment level. Unfortunately they lost me to civvy street, a sad end to my families long, long lineage of service in HM forces!
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Many of the recruitment folks I've spoken to have stated their ability to recruit for certain branches isn't a problem (e.g. Pilot). So for some branches, the Services can afford to be extra stringent on entry standards.
The real issue is the training system getting enough qualified branch personnel out the other end to do the role - that's often where things are being held up.
Some branches are struggling to get them in the recruiting office door though, so attracting the right people is still a problem.
The real issue is the training system getting enough qualified branch personnel out the other end to do the role - that's often where things are being held up.
Some branches are struggling to get them in the recruiting office door though, so attracting the right people is still a problem.
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Not quite sure what that comment has to do with the subject being discussed here glad rag...
Are you saying that recruiters aren't getting 'out there' to 'get their hands dirty', and that you see that being the issue from your perspective as a Serviceman? Engineering is certainly an area where there are Attract/Recruit issues, that's for sure. Hence the STEM initiative being pushed amongst the youth.
Are you saying that recruiters aren't getting 'out there' to 'get their hands dirty', and that you see that being the issue from your perspective as a Serviceman? Engineering is certainly an area where there are Attract/Recruit issues, that's for sure. Hence the STEM initiative being pushed amongst the youth.
Yet in 2014/2015 the rumour was for a manpower uplift of something like 1500 - as noted here.
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UK Royal Navy conducts study to plan amphibious capability integration in Queen Elizabeth carriers 30 Sep 2016 Dr Lee Willett
UK Royal Navy conducts study to plan amphibious capability integration in Queen Elizabeth carriers | IHS Jane's 360
“Key Points
- UK Royal Navy is developing a requirement and plans to augment the amphibious capabilities of its aircraft carriers, as directed in 2015 SDSR
- However, the primary role of the two ships remains the delivery of carrier strike operations..."
- UK Royal Navy is developing a requirement and plans to augment the amphibious capabilities of its aircraft carriers, as directed in 2015 SDSR
- However, the primary role of the two ships remains the delivery of carrier strike operations..."