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Future Carrier (Including Costs)

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Future Carrier (Including Costs)

Old 18th Mar 2009, 09:26
  #2061 (permalink)  
 
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I am surprised that no one has mentioned the various press reports in the US about the expected cancellation of both the F-22 and F-35 programs.

What do those in here feel this means for the HMS Great White Elephant class?
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Old 18th Mar 2009, 11:52
  #2062 (permalink)  
 
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Perhaps they'll take the logical route and stick some catapults on the things instead.

Of course then the government would take the illogical route and probably spend a shedload of money getting BAe to nail an extendable nose oleo, a beefed up tail hook and some sort of camera to the nose so that the poor sod RAF pilot who has to fly the things off and more importantly back onto said white elephant carriers has at least a sporting chance of being able to see where he is going.
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Old 18th Mar 2009, 13:31
  #2063 (permalink)  
 
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WE Branch

Using that logic we only need two CV's then we need only two Trident replacement SSBN's and can reduce all the navy new builds to Two units per each forecasted operational requirement. With the planned build of units to support and protect one of the two CV's they may build the CV will never be able to leave home waters if faced with anything other than a terrorist threat as the CV and Support Train cannot be protected without landbased A/C cover. I am not sure the Crabs can provide that now let alone in 2020.

WALOB

BobH
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Old 18th Mar 2009, 14:10
  #2064 (permalink)  
 
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F-35 and F-22 aren't going to be cancelled. The latter is reaching the end of the production run, they are already in service! Bit late to talk of cancellation. Too many jobs tied up in the F-35, Obama wouldn't dare cause that much unemployment. Really, gentlemen, you should activate your BS filtersbefore giving credence to such nonsense.
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Old 18th Mar 2009, 16:48
  #2065 (permalink)  
 
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' Nonsense as in only having 6 type 45's, and selling off our Type 23's in the meantime ?!'

- Let alone having no Fleet Air defence; even selling off our very short range Type 23's - just as the AIM9L could claim to have won the Falklands Air War - and the FRS1 was the only aircraft able to get it there - the AMRAAM & FA2 were the only things able to defend the CBG, a hell of a lot longer range than a Type 45 even if one's available !

So, let's see, Sea Harrier with AMRAAM range 50 miles+ in all weathers, now stuck with GR7/9, effective range 1 mile with a Sidewinder in daylight hours usually.

I worked on the development of the GR 5-7 and Sea Harrier FRS1, FRS/ FA2 ...
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Old 18th Mar 2009, 17:40
  #2066 (permalink)  
 
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Dave

Well were getting at least 3...
www.mod.uk
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Old 18th Mar 2009, 18:22
  #2067 (permalink)  
 
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I was referring to rumours of the F-35 and F-22 being cancelled. Not going to happen. Whereas the premature withdrawal of the Sea Harriers and the halving of the number of T45s to be built is more akin to treason.
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Old 19th Mar 2009, 11:48
  #2068 (permalink)  
 
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'Treason' - a lot of people including me agree with you, and as I've said before the few Type 45's we get will have to be fantastic ships to manage 5-600 knots a la FA2 !
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Old 19th Mar 2009, 12:00
  #2069 (permalink)  
 
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BobHead. Well, actually, to retain the current assured deterrence time, we need at least 3 V Boats. That's one in Upkeep (refit)/Maintenance and two to provide overlap at patrol end/start. That leaves no margin for the unforseen/unfortunate, though.
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Old 19th Mar 2009, 12:36
  #2070 (permalink)  
 
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And we all know what happens when one leaves no margins, say a '45 hits a mine or just has a plain accident...someone, somewhere is being incredibly stupid, though safe in the knowledge he / she won't be on the receiving end if the **** hits the fan.

Duncan Sandys, Doctor Beeching, who's next ?!

It's times like this when Heinz Frick's 'Skyhook' for Harriers, and the SCADS system for souped up versions of Atlantic Conveyor begin to look very attractive...
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Old 19th Mar 2009, 12:48
  #2071 (permalink)  
 
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Just as long as we can still play the opening music from 'Top Gun' through the flight deck mag loop system to annoy the chock-heads from the comfort of the briefing room!
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Old 19th Mar 2009, 21:53
  #2072 (permalink)  
 
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GBZ

Thats is why we have four and had four R boats before them. In general naval terms, what ever people may tell you, you need a minimum of three units to have one operational at sea. Four being better. So what are you saying exactly

Bob
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Old 27th Mar 2009, 20:06
  #2073 (permalink)  
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BobHead

Are you saying zero is better than two? The V boats, like the R boats before them, provide one unit at immediate (15 minutes I think) notice, 24 hours a day, 365 days a year. The planning for CVF doesn't involve this sort of immediate readiness.

Meanwhile, more CVF equipment orders this week.

Tony Graham, head of Capital Ships within MOD's Defence Equipment and Support, attended the signing ceremony at Thales UK and said:

"The Aircraft Carrier Alliance has now placed sub-contracts for almost 40% of the total value of the materials and equipment required to build both ships, and we are pressing ahead into full scale production in the shipyards. The UK's future aircraft carriers are already off the drawing board and becoming a physical reality - the Queen Elizabeth Class."

The Glasgow-based Ticon Ltd UK will supply the insulation systems to be used throughout the ship which will prevent the transfer of noise and heat and protect the ship from the spread of fire.

Thales UK will cover both onboard and fleet-wide communications. Onboard it will ensure that that crew have access to information and are in communication with their colleagues across the ship at all times. The system will use internet networks to transmit data and voice in the same way as modern businesses and offices communicate. Fleet-wide (external to the ship) includes a high frequency system to provide long-range communications between the ship, other vessels and land bases.

The Bradford-based Ormandy Group will deliver equipment for treatment and supply of hot and cold fresh water to the accommodation spaces within the ships.


I am surprised there was no ceremony when the first steel was cut.
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Old 28th Mar 2009, 11:49
  #2074 (permalink)  
 
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Thales UK will cover both onboard and fleet-wide communications. Onboard it will ensure that that crew have access to information and are in communication with their colleagues across the ship at all times.
Thats a Tannoy and a copy of Daily Orders

Fleet-wide (external to the ship) includes a high frequency system to provide long-range communications between the ship, other vessels and land bases.
Thats an HF Radio

The Bradford-based Ormandy Group will deliver equipment for treatment and supply of hot and cold fresh water to the accommodation spaces within the ships
Those are called pipes and taps.
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Old 28th Mar 2009, 13:00
  #2075 (permalink)  
 
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Thales UK will cover both onboard and fleet-wide communications. Onboard it will ensure that that crew have access to information and are in communication with their colleagues across the ship at all times.

Thats a Tannoy and a copy of Daily Orders


Sounds about right, lets get something 'advanced' and keep up to date with technology that will break. How about keeping it simple with something that works and is tried and tested!! Oh not to mention how much more it will cost.
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Old 26th Apr 2009, 07:59
  #2076 (permalink)  
 
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wonder what the opt out clauses in thease contracts are? Given the budget I would sugest the CVF programme is now very much under threat.
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Old 26th Apr 2009, 12:41
  #2077 (permalink)  
 
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Interesting Times Ahead

Hutton to overhaul terror strategy

Mr Hutton will announce plans on Monday for a "major rebalancing" of the armed forces over the next 10 years, which will give greater priority and investment to special forces units which are able to strike "behind enemy lines".

The new strategy is prompted by a recognition that the old principles of deterrence which dominated military thinking during the Cold War are not applicable to the struggle against extremist terror.
A Defence Review in all but name?
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Old 26th Apr 2009, 13:18
  #2078 (permalink)  
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It was stated that the carriers and the Typhoon were both in the frame. You could certainly argue that land-based aviation is what will be required for the next few years thus carrier aviation could be slowed down. Equally it could be argued, and of course will be, that Typhoon is the future as both Harrier and Tornado will soon be passed their sell-by dates.

NB, I am talking realistic time scales not a couple or years.
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Old 26th Apr 2009, 13:26
  #2079 (permalink)  
 
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SAS and other special forces to be expanded to defeat al-Qaeda

Mr Hutton's speech will also raise the prospect that expensive projects like the RAF's Eurofighter, the final tranche of which has yet to be delivered, and the 3.9bn aircraft carrier programme could be cut back to pay for the wide ranging changes.
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Old 26th Apr 2009, 13:53
  #2080 (permalink)  
 
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The references to Typhoon & CVF (note no mention of Dave) would appear to be the jounos pointing at big programmes in the near term. Reading between the lines, if I were mechanised infantry or working on the FRES programme, I'd be even more worried than I should be......
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