RAF JPA Rollout
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Brown Job
OK I accept the specific example I gave may lead to people getting grief.
However, the point I was trying to make was that this system is barking mad, and impossible to police. Define 'reasonable'. In today's climate, people often don't eat meals in the traditional way - b'fast lunch dinner (how do you think all those fast-food places around MoD for example are busy all day?). People may only have time for several small snacks and these may add up to the total without producing any receipts at all.
On the subject of the 5 hours/£21 thing, I was informed today that you can't claim for a newspaper/phonecall unless you are out overnight. Not sure why this is - I normally read the papers in the mess at lunchtime, and figured (wrongly it seems) that the Service would allow me to do the same when out on duty.
Last thing for today: who is collecting data to find out what people are actually spending? It's simple to find out what people are CLAIMING, but shouldn't the system actually record the full costs even if they are over the allowance (but pay only the max allowed)? I can see that in 12-mths time, some shiney-arsed t@sser lloking at all the claims and seeing that the average claimed is below the max allowed. QED, the rate can be reduced! Cynical? Moi?
Night Night
STH
OK I accept the specific example I gave may lead to people getting grief.
However, the point I was trying to make was that this system is barking mad, and impossible to police. Define 'reasonable'. In today's climate, people often don't eat meals in the traditional way - b'fast lunch dinner (how do you think all those fast-food places around MoD for example are busy all day?). People may only have time for several small snacks and these may add up to the total without producing any receipts at all.
On the subject of the 5 hours/£21 thing, I was informed today that you can't claim for a newspaper/phonecall unless you are out overnight. Not sure why this is - I normally read the papers in the mess at lunchtime, and figured (wrongly it seems) that the Service would allow me to do the same when out on duty.
Last thing for today: who is collecting data to find out what people are actually spending? It's simple to find out what people are CLAIMING, but shouldn't the system actually record the full costs even if they are over the allowance (but pay only the max allowed)? I can see that in 12-mths time, some shiney-arsed t@sser lloking at all the claims and seeing that the average claimed is below the max allowed. QED, the rate can be reduced! Cynical? Moi?
Night Night
STH
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From experience (oh it is late ;-) )
STH,
You can only claim for the overnight subsistence OS ( newspaper/laundry/3 min phone call) and breakfast when you are away over night. the Daily subsistence DS covers you for lunch and dinner, there is no individual rate for lunch and dinner. As long as you are on the ground for at least 5 hours (better than the old system), you can claim DS. I think that you may also be able to claim IE (incidental expenses, £5 per day in UK, ££10 per day o/seas) as long as it is not sport etc (but worth checking).
Personally I have just been overseas on det for two weeks, and trying to complete the paperwork is a nightmare; it encourages fraud, because as numerous people have already stated, any item under £5 does not need a receipt; a few Big Mac's will do it.
If the MOD want to save money, just reduce the money that we are entitled to (when overseas as the money that we get in UK is barely adequate), and allow us to spend it as we want to.
You can only claim for the overnight subsistence OS ( newspaper/laundry/3 min phone call) and breakfast when you are away over night. the Daily subsistence DS covers you for lunch and dinner, there is no individual rate for lunch and dinner. As long as you are on the ground for at least 5 hours (better than the old system), you can claim DS. I think that you may also be able to claim IE (incidental expenses, £5 per day in UK, ££10 per day o/seas) as long as it is not sport etc (but worth checking).
Personally I have just been overseas on det for two weeks, and trying to complete the paperwork is a nightmare; it encourages fraud, because as numerous people have already stated, any item under £5 does not need a receipt; a few Big Mac's will do it.
If the MOD want to save money, just reduce the money that we are entitled to (when overseas as the money that we get in UK is barely adequate), and allow us to spend it as we want to.
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39 days to go
I am now 101 days in to my det with 39 left to go. Have I been paid my LSA/LSSA/whatever the hell its now called? Hell no!
What have I done about it I hear you all asking. Apart from having the Army Sgt Maj, RN Cpt and Army Brigadier ringing the UK every week since I have been here, not a lot. We were all assured that the allowances had been put in to the system and it should turn up in my account in my next pay packet. Hmm, still no money.
Ah, so now the only person who can access my JPA account is me over the phone. So I do this to be told, once I conveyed to the (not too bothered) civvy which allowance I was talking about, it will take 10 days to find out what is going on.
"10 days?" says I - "Well I have lasted 100 without being paid so 10 more won't make a huge difference." Water off a duck's back I tell thee.
No idea if my letter of complaint signed by a 1 star will help or not but its worth a try.
Oh, and incase I didn't say, 100 days worth of allowances here is 3,700 pounds.
What have I done about it I hear you all asking. Apart from having the Army Sgt Maj, RN Cpt and Army Brigadier ringing the UK every week since I have been here, not a lot. We were all assured that the allowances had been put in to the system and it should turn up in my account in my next pay packet. Hmm, still no money.
Ah, so now the only person who can access my JPA account is me over the phone. So I do this to be told, once I conveyed to the (not too bothered) civvy which allowance I was talking about, it will take 10 days to find out what is going on.
"10 days?" says I - "Well I have lasted 100 without being paid so 10 more won't make a huge difference." Water off a duck's back I tell thee.
No idea if my letter of complaint signed by a 1 star will help or not but its worth a try.
Oh, and incase I didn't say, 100 days worth of allowances here is 3,700 pounds.
Last edited by The Monkey; 16th Jun 2006 at 06:10.
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It would appear that putting things on paper and into the chain is the only way ahead. Phone calls and emails don't seem to be working, or registering within the complaints system - ergo, the Command can happily ignore them, as they are not "official". Rest assured that the RN will be going paper-official as soon as it goes wrong for any of us - we are looking and learning!
Confidence in the system is not good, with less than 120 days before we get it.
Confidence in the system is not good, with less than 120 days before we get it.
How are you supposed to go on line or call the complaints desk when you're at sea?
Mrs Tar and her three children starve for lack of funds while A.B. Tar is incommunicado for three months in his steel tube under the oggin?
Mrs Tar and her three children starve for lack of funds while A.B. Tar is incommunicado for three months in his steel tube under the oggin?
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Originally Posted by k3k3
How are you supposed to go on line or call the complaints desk when you're at sea?
Mrs Tar and her three children starve for lack of funds while A.B. Tar is incommunicado for three months in his steel tube under the oggin?
Mrs Tar and her three children starve for lack of funds while A.B. Tar is incommunicado for three months in his steel tube under the oggin?
Subs - there is a routine for comms out, but not if they are op-deployed.
Of course, under DPA the wife/partner is not entitled to phone the Help Desk and enquire about her husband's pay.....when Mrs Tar is cutting the Boss' b@llocks of with a rusty knife, they may reassess this side of the equation!
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The issue with formal grievance procedure is surely that foisting a thoroughly maddening software package, combined with a 700 page re-write of the relevant regulations, on the entire RAF is not necessarily grounds for complaint against an individual, especially as it's agreed policy to do so.
Perhaps it's poor project management.....? No doubt the NAO will be taking a look in due course.
Perhaps it's poor project management.....? No doubt the NAO will be taking a look in due course.
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Redress
Originally Posted by BEagle
Which would indicate, would it not, that despite the huge number of individual cases described on PPRuNE and the 14 individual pieces of correspondence, Lord Drayson will continue to hide behind such utter fluff unless formal grievances are laid.
So what's stopping you all? Why aren't such grievances being filed every day, if that's what it takes?
'Comical Ali' Field will continue to spin the party line and you won't get any swift action until you do.
So what's stopping you all? Why aren't such grievances being filed every day, if that's what it takes?
'Comical Ali' Field will continue to spin the party line and you won't get any swift action until you do.
PSF (bless them) have tried to sort it but the attitude displayed by JPAC back office/DE (DHE as was) is absolutley abysmal. Both seem to be denying any responsibility for correcting it and saying its up to the other to sort it. F
g imbiciles....
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Mrs Tar and her three children starve for lack of funds while A.B. Tar is incommunicado for three months in his steel tube under the oggin?
Reading the papers today, I was surprised to note that the Comical Ali mouthpiece for JPA hadn't received a gong...thought it was standard for MoD c0ck-ups, this must be a bad one!
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DOES THIS REASSURE ANYONE...?
FROM HOUSE OF LORDS, 14 JUNE:
"
Ministry of Defence: Joint Personnel Administration System
Lord Garden asked Her Majesty's Government:
14 Jun 2006 : Column WA31
The current estimated total cost of the JPA project, including costs preceding full development and also its initial period of in-service operation through to the end of financial year 2008-09, covering both MoD and extramural costs, is £269 million. JPA is expected to deliver savings in excess of £100 million per year when fully in service.
On JPA rollout to the RAF, there were a number of technical issues which had not manifested in the extensive testing carried out prior to its launch. These resulted in the system operating much more slowly than anticipated which greatly restricted the number of self-service users at any one time. Over the course of the following six weeks these early problems were overcome and users have had access to the full system functionality since 18 May.
JPA performed satisfactorily on rollout to RAF professional HR administrators and has successfully delivered pay to the RAF with only relatively few discrepancies in the first month and many less in the second. Although the first few weeks following roll-out have resulted in a significant number of inquiries and requests for rectification of problems from individual users, as well as some 14 pieces of ministerial correspondence on behalf of constituents, as at 9 June there have been no formal grievances from individual users about JPA.
In order to ensure alignment of JPA with defence information infrastructure (future) programme requirements, current plans are that JPA will be rolled out to the RN from October 2006 and to the Army from March 2007."
"
Ministry of Defence: Joint Personnel Administration System
Lord Garden asked Her Majesty's Government:
14 Jun 2006 : Column WA31
The current estimated total cost of the JPA project, including costs preceding full development and also its initial period of in-service operation through to the end of financial year 2008-09, covering both MoD and extramural costs, is £269 million. JPA is expected to deliver savings in excess of £100 million per year when fully in service.
On JPA rollout to the RAF, there were a number of technical issues which had not manifested in the extensive testing carried out prior to its launch. These resulted in the system operating much more slowly than anticipated which greatly restricted the number of self-service users at any one time. Over the course of the following six weeks these early problems were overcome and users have had access to the full system functionality since 18 May.
JPA performed satisfactorily on rollout to RAF professional HR administrators and has successfully delivered pay to the RAF with only relatively few discrepancies in the first month and many less in the second. Although the first few weeks following roll-out have resulted in a significant number of inquiries and requests for rectification of problems from individual users, as well as some 14 pieces of ministerial correspondence on behalf of constituents, as at 9 June there have been no formal grievances from individual users about JPA.
In order to ensure alignment of JPA with defence information infrastructure (future) programme requirements, current plans are that JPA will be rolled out to the RN from October 2006 and to the Army from March 2007."
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Some one please tell me where the "formal grievances" button is on JPA PLEASE!!!!!
(Not of course that it will make any difference as when I try to enter the details it will just come up with SYSTEM ERROR, as it does every time I try to put in an expense claim at the moment.)
(Not of course that it will make any difference as when I try to enter the details it will just come up with SYSTEM ERROR, as it does every time I try to put in an expense claim at the moment.)
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System Error
JTIDS,
This may or may not help but I was suffering the same dreaded message when trying to put in a claim and have found one cause.
Now, bear in mind that there's an Oracle database at the heart of this thing, for the 'Auth' reference I had spaces but decided to try underscores instead & bingo I was in (still ended being audited & a policy violator though).
Hope this helps some.
This may or may not help but I was suffering the same dreaded message when trying to put in a claim and have found one cause.
Now, bear in mind that there's an Oracle database at the heart of this thing, for the 'Auth' reference I had spaces but decided to try underscores instead & bingo I was in (still ended being audited & a policy violator though).
Hope this helps some.
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Originally Posted by 5thMetatarsal
with only relatively few discrepancies in the first month and many less in the second.
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GP CAPT BONNELL
She has been the AFPAA Transformation Team Leader in Preparation for JPA so prepared the Help Desk establishment and got the Agency ready for JPA - she had nothing to do with the application itself.
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Originally Posted by MilSpFunc
She has been the AFPAA Transformation Team Leader in Preparation for JPA so prepared the Help Desk establishment and got the Agency ready for JPA - she had nothing to do with the application itself.
Red On, Green On
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However, reading this thread it appears that the phrase "help desk" has one incorrect word in it, and it isn't desk. Not much assistance seems to have been given by those on said desk.
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Oh for God's sake airborne_artist, since when has it mattered whether your project works or is any good, compared to what you make influential people think?
If the RAF did all that it claimed, we'd be fcuking deadly!
If the RAF did all that it claimed, we'd be fcuking deadly!
Red On, Green On
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Sorry Dallas, I'm no longer paid by Betty. I'm self-employed - if it doesn't work I don't get paid. Forgot that office/career politics is so much more important than completing the task on time and on budget.