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The J vs K Thread. Pacifists keep out.

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The J vs K Thread. Pacifists keep out.

Old 27th Mar 2006, 15:43
  #181 (permalink)  
 
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fish

Well, i dont think i'll sleep tonight in the knowledge some 'bad' people might find out that sometimes the hercs break down and aren't available for some tasking.

You certainly dont live up to your name ''controversial tim''
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Old 27th Mar 2006, 15:50
  #182 (permalink)  
 
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Have to say I'm a little disapointed with the quality of 'banter' on this thread. It's a bit 'playground' for my liking & I'd have hoped that you chaps, both K & J, could be a bit more adult on this subject.

The C130 Hercules is the definitive medium air transport aircraft, so good that after over 40 years it's still being produced - the only thing that can replace a Hercules is another Hercules. I had a great time flying the K, but sadly the aircraft is now dated, it can't comply with current requirements, it's upgrade programme is hampered by integration difficulties, it's performance is poor hot & high & the whole fleet should've been replaced when the first half was, with the only aircraft that could replace it - another Hercules - and the latest model of that was the J. Are the 'anti - J' contingent really to have us believe that Lockheed, with the benefit of 40 years of improving technology, couldn't improve on the 1966 model? The aircraft has evolved over its life, or do the doubters think the A model was definitive?

I remember when we didn't fly during the day in summer in the Gulf because the performance was so poor on the K. It did mean we had some cracking night(day?) stops in the Crowne Plaza in Kuwait though! Two engine performance could be marginal even at training weights, & 3 engine wasn't that great sometimes! The Siren departure was invented because of Ks struggling to altitude joining G1 on their way to Akrotiri.

The J is the same size & shape as a K, can carry the same things, but because it's got oodles more power, & if you K pilots haven't tried it you really shouldn't knock it! - it can carry more of it. Even in the middle East, at ISA +35 C, with 10 tonnes of freight & 12 tonnes of fuel, we don't have to worry about our 2 engine ceiling. Why is that a problem? Only once have I thought I could've done with external fuel tanks, because we're usually at MTOW without filling up with fuel - ie we can shift more freight around, surely no bad thing with a transport aircraft.

Try this in your K next time you're in the sim - MTOW departure from Lyneham, ISA +10 C, fail both critical engines at rotate & try & keep flying. As a pilot that gives me a certain bit of confidence - we may not have been climbing iaw Perf A, but we didn't crash!

The Eng & Nav are unfortunately surplus to requirements on the J so I can imagine them being a bit unhappy about it, but does that make the aircraft bad? Who flies with them on a modern aircraft anyway? They've gone the way of the AGs, WOPs, WOPAGs, etc, replaced by the advance of technology. Some of my best friends were/ are Navs, not all smelt of p**s, but there simply isn't a need for them on an aircraft with good modern aids, & a pilot friendly cockpit. Again, you K pilots ought to try having more SA than you know what to do with!

It's not all rosy of course, the contract was another RAF created blinder, some of the kit that was fitted to the obsolete aircraft ought to have come to us, & some of our clearances have taken far too long to come in, but the K would fare little better were it to be flight tested today. But the basic J is still a Hercules, with alot of the drawbacks of the older models sorted, & will continue to carry on the great work previously done by the K.

Meanwhile it would be nice to see the K flying again, despite its limitations, as there simply aren't enough Js to do all the work. I look forward to seeing you in KANDAHAR!

I am also looking forward to seeing some mature responses, no name calling please!
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Old 27th Mar 2006, 16:33
  #183 (permalink)  
 
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ken scott

You couldn't have put it fairer mate!
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Old 27th Mar 2006, 18:02
  #184 (permalink)  
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You certainly dont live up to your name ''controversial tim''
Only 'cos I can't be ar$ed arguing with someone who is beneath me.
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Old 27th Mar 2006, 18:10
  #185 (permalink)  
 
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From your last then Tim I take it you argue with the ladies a lot then.
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Old 28th Mar 2006, 18:35
  #186 (permalink)  
 
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Grrr

Any chance of hearing a balanced opinion from a 'J' chap who's gone back to the 'K'?...........Mmmm.

Having just returned from J/Kandahar and J/Kabul it seemed to me that both types were working quite hard and well together! however, EFATO at Tac rotate speeds at Bamian?... think I'll stick to the [email protected] plastic thing with the big donks !!
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Old 29th Mar 2006, 07:46
  #187 (permalink)  
 
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Not sure that anyone has gone back...the crew door on the K isn't big enough for me and the lamp post I'd be holding on to if they tried to send me back!
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Old 29th Mar 2006, 08:55
  #188 (permalink)  
 
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Why would any sane person want to go back, it would be like trading in your 2006 Merc CLK 55 AMG for a 1960's Ford Cortina, your just not gonna do it , plus the Merc smells fresher

all spelling mistakes are "df" alcohol induced
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Old 29th Mar 2006, 13:12
  #189 (permalink)  
 
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Nice to see that the NATO air transport "pool" is available to help you guys out!
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Old 10th Apr 2006, 09:57
  #190 (permalink)  
 
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But if any of you -K or -J tactical pilots with an instructional background is leaving the mob in the next few months and would be interested in working on the A400M training programme in Toulouse this year, then Madrid and Seville from next year, please PM or e-mail me.

Same goes if you're leaving the C-17 world.
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Old 10th Apr 2006, 18:55
  #191 (permalink)  
 
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I dont know why I am asking Beag's as I can guess the answer but don't suppose you are also looking for ALM's as well, not TAC myself but know lots who are

all spelling mistakes are "df" alcohol induced
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Old 10th Apr 2006, 20:37
  #192 (permalink)  
 
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We were indeed looking for tactical ALMs at one time, ABIW and as a result now have 2 excellent chaps on the A400M programme. Chap in Bremen soon discovered the best local Indian noshery as well - I was there a couple of weeks ago! Other mate starts on the programme in a week or so in Tool-ooze and Madrid.
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Old 31st Aug 2006, 19:42
  #193 (permalink)  
 
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You might have a copyright problem there!





Will it have the performance of the C130 J
Taxi to take off in 100 yds, quite impressive

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Old 4th Sep 2006, 02:52
  #194 (permalink)  
 
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Great Pictures SPHLC. Good to hear your flying again.

There is a Loadie who was on Ks then went Js and then did a ground tour and then asked to go back to Ks. Think he is the only person to move back to the K. I guess he has his reasons. Not mentioning any names but you will find him table diving at Sqn 90th anniversary parties and sporting huge bruises under his arm afterwards. Now that gotta smart!
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Old 4th Sep 2006, 08:30
  #195 (permalink)  
 
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Devil Serious differences???

Much has been bandied about which is the better a/c in terms of performance and capability...but from aeons ago when men were men and loadies were at the captains beck and call it is my feeling that the 'old galley' performed much more efficiently.....a certain loadie could even make souflee in the oven given enough time!!!! Comments anyone? banter, rude, abusive, defensive etc Over to you...
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Old 4th Sep 2006, 11:34
  #196 (permalink)  
 
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I have to say that I find the galley on the J much better - dinner for 3 takes appreciably less time than dinner for 5 ( or more normally 15 these days as they all strive for route currency), 7 minutes per meal in the microwave rather than 40 odd in the oven helps helps too. The quality of the cooking has always relied more on the chef than the equipment anyway - one ALM I had the pleasure of flying with in the desert used to provide me with a full cooked breakfast just after TOC - other J ALMs used to consider a flask of hot water was outside their job spec.
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Old 4th Sep 2006, 13:44
  #197 (permalink)  
 
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Talking The heights of haute cuisine

Hot water....HOT WATER....good god you were spoiled man.....AH boxes and colombo packs oooohhh the height of luxury plus on the 'real' Herc the oven usually failed..or it did if you popped the fuse!!!
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Old 4th Sep 2006, 13:49
  #198 (permalink)  
 
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Im not Herc expert, in fact my experience of them is quite a few trips in the back (Germany, Kenya, States via Goose Bay, Afghanistan) but whilst i was in Kabul (2004) there was a J model down by the CIA lot (sshhh!) and we use to provide fuel for it. I got a chance to go to Uzbekhistan, to the US base there, to collect some fuel samples of that dodgy Russian fuel. I was invited to sit in the middle seat coming into land at Maz Ar Sharif (forgive spelling) and it was unbelievable the G's that were pulled coming into land. We started very fecking high and going in, what seemed like a spiral, all the way to the ground. I had a camera in my hand but due to the G, couldnt lift it to take a pic. Apparently the pilots were SF ones, well the Hereford lot used to go out with them, and i was amazed at what the plane and the pilots could do! So as to the original thread title, i myself saw nothing wrong with what a J could do! But then im a Squaddie so what do i know!!
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Old 4th Sep 2006, 13:50
  #199 (permalink)  
 
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By way, when i mentioned "down by CIA lot" i mean it was parked there!!! The CIA lot would fly around in Mi 8 Hips!!!
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Old 4th Sep 2006, 13:55
  #200 (permalink)  
 
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Aaaah, the infamous J SF pilots...
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