F-104 Accidents
ShyTorque
I think the airfield you're refering to is Nörvenich. I diverted there in a Buccaneer in about 1973. The jeep that took us back out to our aircraft to fly home also had to drop off an F104 pilot on the way. The driver approached the 104 pan at about 40 mph, jammed on the brakes, and skidded to a halt with the 104's pitot head inches from the windscreen of the jeep. I guess they probably wrote a few off on the ground as well!
The annoying thing is, I do recall the airfield was south of the RAF "Clutch" stations but just can't remember the name of it. I do remember that at the other (western) end of the runway, there was a very steep drop where the naturally falling ground had been infilled to extend the original runway length.
Anyone help with that one?
Anyone help with that one?
BEags,
Hate to ruin a good story but just to add a little........The rolling g limit in the Bucc was due to structural loads on the wings. Just think of the twist that the huge ailerons were applying to an already loaded wing. Departure was not the issue here. The one which "fell apart" in Wales was actually due to a very rapid pull on the stick to avoid the Hunter formation, and I believe that the tailplane came off; nothing to do with rolling. However, it is worth noting that this was the only Bucc that 208 Sqn lost when in the overland role (1974 - 1983). It was a VERY hard-flying outfit so maybe this proves a point about training hard improving safety or, to reverse engineer the arguement, if you don't fly and train hard and live in a risk averse culture (i.e. low experience), you will have accidents.
To follow on from Wholigan's point on ridge crossing, rolling over ridges often gave a wing glint that allowed a visual tally by the bounce whereas pushing over would not. And I have rolled and pulled over a ridge to find that the valley on the other side was not as wide and deep as I was expecting! That definitely resulted in an agressive rolling pull!
Hate to ruin a good story but just to add a little........The rolling g limit in the Bucc was due to structural loads on the wings. Just think of the twist that the huge ailerons were applying to an already loaded wing. Departure was not the issue here. The one which "fell apart" in Wales was actually due to a very rapid pull on the stick to avoid the Hunter formation, and I believe that the tailplane came off; nothing to do with rolling. However, it is worth noting that this was the only Bucc that 208 Sqn lost when in the overland role (1974 - 1983). It was a VERY hard-flying outfit so maybe this proves a point about training hard improving safety or, to reverse engineer the arguement, if you don't fly and train hard and live in a risk averse culture (i.e. low experience), you will have accidents.
To follow on from Wholigan's point on ridge crossing, rolling over ridges often gave a wing glint that allowed a visual tally by the bounce whereas pushing over would not. And I have rolled and pulled over a ridge to find that the valley on the other side was not as wide and deep as I was expecting! That definitely resulted in an agressive rolling pull!
Avoid imitations
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TimL,
Yes, thankyou - that IS the airfield, I had half a mind it was; browsing my new toy "Tom Tom" and a road atlas confirms it.
Lomcevak,
I mistakenly thought that Buccaneer was a 237 OCU one, but I do know the pilot pulled 13G before the tail came off. The crew went swimming in Lake Bala.
I was holding on the OCU prior to BFTS and actually took a phone call in ops about the accident, which I passed onto Wg Cdr Parr, the CO.
"Surprising in the CAF list the number of pilots who ejected more than once. In the UK are there many like that?"
On 230 Sqn in the late 70s/ early 80s, we had one ex-Harrier pilot who banged out twice and was not allowed back on ejection seats (the late Flt Lt. Nigel Wilkinson, God rest him). He was about 5 ft 7" tall - he said he used to be 6 ft tall......
Yes, thankyou - that IS the airfield, I had half a mind it was; browsing my new toy "Tom Tom" and a road atlas confirms it.
Lomcevak,
I mistakenly thought that Buccaneer was a 237 OCU one, but I do know the pilot pulled 13G before the tail came off. The crew went swimming in Lake Bala.
I was holding on the OCU prior to BFTS and actually took a phone call in ops about the accident, which I passed onto Wg Cdr Parr, the CO.
"Surprising in the CAF list the number of pilots who ejected more than once. In the UK are there many like that?"
On 230 Sqn in the late 70s/ early 80s, we had one ex-Harrier pilot who banged out twice and was not allowed back on ejection seats (the late Flt Lt. Nigel Wilkinson, God rest him). He was about 5 ft 7" tall - he said he used to be 6 ft tall......
Last edited by ShyTorque; 30th Dec 2005 at 17:41.
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Eject . . . Eject . . .
"Wot, again??"
I've put this on a thread before, but there was a guy I knew on 8 Sqn back in the mid 70s, Geoff Something or other, who had banged out on two successive trips in the mighty Sea Vixen. Once into the Firth of Forth, just after a cat launch from Eagle, coupled with engine probs. Pilot didn't make it, Geoff played ducks and drakes over the sea.
Secondly, 6 months to the day after mandatory 6 months off, from RNAS Yeovilton, engine probs on pairs take off, No 1 then directed the crash crews to the site of the ejectees, even though they were furiously erecting their SARBES . . .
Interesting log book entries, 2 t/os or launches, 0 Landings, total flight time 1:30 minutes.
Again, he looked much shorter in the flesh and his wife is/was taller than him now.
jf
I've put this on a thread before, but there was a guy I knew on 8 Sqn back in the mid 70s, Geoff Something or other, who had banged out on two successive trips in the mighty Sea Vixen. Once into the Firth of Forth, just after a cat launch from Eagle, coupled with engine probs. Pilot didn't make it, Geoff played ducks and drakes over the sea.
Secondly, 6 months to the day after mandatory 6 months off, from RNAS Yeovilton, engine probs on pairs take off, No 1 then directed the crash crews to the site of the ejectees, even though they were furiously erecting their SARBES . . .
Interesting log book entries, 2 t/os or launches, 0 Landings, total flight time 1:30 minutes.
Again, he looked much shorter in the flesh and his wife is/was taller than him now.
jf
Lomcevak, you are no doubt correct - but that's what we were told in groundschool!
A certain chap from 12 Sqn pulled even harder during a cocked-up night medium toss recovery whilst I was at Honington back then. The flaps fell off, the probe bent but he got it back on the ground!
A certain chap from 12 Sqn pulled even harder during a cocked-up night medium toss recovery whilst I was at Honington back then. The flaps fell off, the probe bent but he got it back on the ground!
Shy
I remember Wilko- I always thought his apparent lack of height was due to his being so laid back he was horizontal!
Been out over 15 yrs now, and sad to hear of his passing.
A smashing bloke- OC 'C' Flt on deployments as I recall.
I must know you- was in Gut 83 to late 85, and 33 before that.
CG
I remember Wilko- I always thought his apparent lack of height was due to his being so laid back he was horizontal!
Been out over 15 yrs now, and sad to hear of his passing.
A smashing bloke- OC 'C' Flt on deployments as I recall.
I must know you- was in Gut 83 to late 85, and 33 before that.
CG
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"So laid back he was horizontal".
Yes, He once surprised us all by paying for the sauna to be switched in Bad Tolz and invited us all along. He was late on parade but then appeared fully dressed, wearing a jacket and tie, smoking a cigar and carrying a glass of whiskey. He said "It's too bloody hot in here!" and promptly returned to the bar!
I predated you a little on 230 but left in Dec 83. Send me a p.m. to avoid undue thread drift
Yes, He once surprised us all by paying for the sauna to be switched in Bad Tolz and invited us all along. He was late on parade but then appeared fully dressed, wearing a jacket and tie, smoking a cigar and carrying a glass of whiskey. He said "It's too bloody hot in here!" and promptly returned to the bar!
I predated you a little on 230 but left in Dec 83. Send me a p.m. to avoid undue thread drift
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My dad was a CF104 Sim Engineer with CAE and we spent time at RCAF Grostenquin and RCAF Zweibrucken in the 1960's. I can remember going to friends houses who's fathers were pilots and who had 'banged out'. They had been presented with a CF104 control column mounted on wood along with the details of the a/c. Our school at Zweibrucken was close to the runway and the teachers stopped the lesson whilst the a/c were taking off due to the noise. There is a reunion at Grostenquin next year as although the airfield has been disused for some years now, it is still there, but due to be demolished the year after next.
Temps
Temps
On 230 Sqn in the late 70s/ early 80s, we had one ex-Harrier pilot who banged out twice and was not allowed back on ejection seats (the late Flt Lt. Nigel Wilkinson, God rest him). He was about 5 ft 7" tall - he said he used to be 6 ft tall......
Thanks for the info on ridge rolling, I vaguely remember as a youngster seeing an aircraft do it, but have never seen it done since, Wholi and JF's posts give a good lead as to why!
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Re: F-104 Land Speed record
There will be a good 1 hour programme about this project on Discovery Channel on 15 Feb at 2200, 16 Feb at 0200, 18 Feb at 2000 and 19 Feb at 0400 - it has already been shown but it is on again and worth setting the vid for.
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Re: F-104 Accidents
I have to say, that if land speed records were that easy, then surely the Thrust 2 team would have simply sawn the wings off a Phantom, stuck it on an Ifor Williams trailer chassis and trundled off to the desert, and ho hum, probably broken mach 2.
Re: F-104 Accidents
Gnome de PPRuNe
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Re: F-104 Accidents
The F-104 accident at Yeovilton was August 1979 - I have an idea it stalled on approach for some reason.
Re: F-104 Accidents
I was at Bodo airshow in Norway several years ago; whilst in ops the day after the show, about to depart for home, in walk the Italian F104 pair. One mate looked very apprehensive - we asked him what was up. 'Oh, I really have to get home', he said, 'it's my wife's birthday, and we are going on holiday - she'll kill me if I'm late'. Anyway, as we watched the pair line up and then roll, cue loud bang and white smoke from the engine of one - guess who? In he strode some time later, in tears and swearing (sounded so much better in Italian), reaching for the phone to call home. Made me so glad we had 2 engines!
