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New Pension Scheme

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New Pension Scheme

Old 13th Aug 2005, 10:51
  #221 (permalink)  
 
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All......

As a non-pilot (sorry, but someone has to be!) can I take it that the concensus seems to be forming that the correct figures to use are:


Pilot
OF2 (Flt Lt) £0.707
OF3 (Sqn Ldr) £0.705


Navigator
OF2 (Flt Lt) £0.523
OF3 (Sqn Ldr) £0.521

Rearcrew
OF2 (Flt Lt) £0.449
OF3 (Sqn Ldr) £0.447


These figures would seem to make sense to me. When the scheme was first introduced/muted (2002?) the figure for navigator was about £0.48. I am sure of that!! Given three years of pay rises at about 3% a year this would bring it up to about £0.52, as quoted above. To get to £0.86 from about £0.48 is an 80% rise in three years - which seems highly unlikely!
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Old 13th Aug 2005, 11:05
  #222 (permalink)  
 
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Ginseng,
Having a Flt Lt receive a larger pension than a Sqn Ldr clearly is not untenable as far as MoD is concerned, since under AFPS05 a PAS Flt Lt can achieve a larger pension than a CS Sqn Ldr. As you say, who wants to get promoted now?
That's exactly my point. I would suggest that the answer is; only those people who are sure that they will get promoted beyond Sqn Ldr or who have no intention to staying until they can get a full pension.

If you are still a Flt Lt aged over about 33 and like the idea of staying in the RAF until you're 55. My advice would be to reject promotion and hope for assimilation. Mind you, watch out because not many Flt Lts are being assimilated these days. I suspect that, from now on, entry to the PAS will primarily be used as an incentive for CS sqn ldrs to stay and carry out alternate flying and groundtours, or to retain aircrew with important additional skills such as QFIs and QWIs.
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Old 13th Aug 2005, 12:53
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Ginseng

No apologies necessary whatsoever dear chap! You have been a source of much useful information on this forum that many people (including me) have benefitted from hugely.
Apologies ARE required however from both AFPAA and the OTT centre who have displayed a total lack of competence and care when issuing facts to people like us who are striving UNDER TIME PRESSURE to make one of the biggest financial decisions of our lives. I must admit, my confidence in these so called `experts` has been reduced to almost zero and I shudder to think how many people are going to make the `wrong` decision based on factual advice which is clearly both flawed and contradictory.

Biggus

Yes, those PA enhancement rates (RAF, 2005/6) are correct - according to the gentleman in the policy office at AFPAA!
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Old 14th Aug 2005, 09:40
  #224 (permalink)  
 
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I have just read the article in the latest RAF News about the new pension scheme, and there was some information in there that frankly confused the heck out of me! I am refering to widows pension rights.

While I will try to find the answers to my queries through the mod websites I was wondering whether anyone out there could enlighten me as to the situation in the following four circumstances:

AFPS75 - Widows pension rights on death of spouse while in service.

AFPS75 - Widows pension rights on death of spouse after retirement from the military.


AFPS05 - Same two sets of circumstances as quoted above.


If anyone could help I would appreciate it - I will happily take a reply as a PM if it is easier. Many thanks!
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Old 14th Aug 2005, 10:38
  #225 (permalink)  
 
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Biggus

Don't have the RAF News to hand. What is the query exactly?

Regards

Ginseng
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Old 14th Aug 2005, 12:20
  #226 (permalink)  
 
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Biggus: there are bits of small print all over the place, and the following will change if you are counting service before 1973, if the Armed Forces contributed to your death, etc, but the following is a summary of what's most likely to happen, as I understand it. The pension you get if you are discharged for ill-health is based on your current earned years, plus half the years you could have earned from now to 55, with a minimum of 20.

Still haven't received the OTT pack yet.


AFPS 75 - Widow's rights on death of spouse while in service (cause of death non-attributable to the MoD):

- Death-in-Service Lump Sum equal to thee years' pensionable salary, tax-free

- Short-term Family Pension equal to your current pensionable salary for 91 days if you leave one dependant (widow or child), 182 days for two or more, and up to 273 days if you are not entitled to a pension or have been in for less than 2 years.

- Widow's Long-Term Pension payable once the short-term family pension stops. It is equal to 50% of the pension you would have got if you had been discharged for ill-health (non-attributable to the MoD). It stops if your widow cohabits or remarries, but would start again if they divorce or cease cohabiting.


AFPS 75 - Widow's rights on death of spouse after retirement from the military (cause of death non-attributable to the MoD):

- Short-term Family Pension equal to your current daily pension rate for 91 days if you leave one dependant (widow or child), 182 days for two or more, and up to 273 days if you are not entitled to a pension or have been in for less than 2 years.

- Widow's Long-Term Pension equal to 50% of the pension you were receiving in retirement. It stops if your widow cohabits or remarries, but would start again if they divorce or cease cohabiting.


AFPS 05 - Widow's rights on death of spouse while in service (cause of death non-attributable to the MoD):

- Death-in-Service Lump Sum equal to four years' pensionable salary, tax-free

- Spouse/Civil Partner's/Partner's Pension Normally around 62.5% of the pension you would have got if you had been discharged for ill-health (non-attributable to the MoD). Reduces if you are not married at the time you transfer, and your partner is over 12 years younger than you.


AFPS 05 - Widow's rights on death of spouse after retirement from the military (cause of death non-attributable to the MoD):

- Spouse/Civil Partner's/Partner's Pension Normally around 62.5% of the pension you were receiving in retirement. Reduces if you are not married at the time you transfer, and your partner is over 12 years younger than you. 5 yr guarantee of income if you die early in retirement.

Last edited by DaveyBoy; 14th Aug 2005 at 14:14.
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Old 15th Aug 2005, 10:48
  #227 (permalink)  
 
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Stanley, Ginseng et al

As promised, I spoke to Pensions Glasgow this morning, and after getting them to recheck the pensions regulations they now agree with the advice given to Stanley - it would have been nice if they had done this at the beginning.

I was one of the first to question the accuracy of the online pensions calculator, but I must now accept that it is correct in its calculations.

I wholeheartedly apologise to all readers if my comments have added to the fog of confusion which surrounds this important area.

D4R
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Old 15th Aug 2005, 11:11
  #228 (permalink)  
 
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DaveyBoy

Many thanks for the information you provided and the effort you went to. It confirms what I was eventually able to discover from the MoD pensions website!



Ginseng

In the case of the RAF News article it was more a case of what they left out. Anyway, thanks to DaveyBoy your question has been overtaken by events. Sorry for the delay in replying, but I am currently in a location where internet access is a lot more restrictive than at home!
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Old 15th Aug 2005, 15:22
  #229 (permalink)  
 
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Down 4 Reprogram

Thanks for your post. The only possible source of confusion remaining is whether Flt Lt pilots who assimilate to the PA Spine in future years at age 38 (or 40?), who were obviously never formerly Specialist Aircrew, still have reserved rights to the Spec Aircrew Flt Lt `base` pension rates. If they do - great! BUT, if they don`t do they fall onto the ground branch Flt Lt pension tables and get the higher OF2 (1.044/day) enhancement rate to compensate?
I `ve been able to clarify my own position (ex Spec Aircrew), but for the guys joining the PA Spine NOW I think it`s a question well worth asking!

Last edited by Stanley Eevil; 15th Aug 2005 at 16:08.
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Old 16th Aug 2005, 21:12
  #230 (permalink)  
 
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Well I've signed up for AFPS05 as i think I'll be better off! Think being the operative word.
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Old 23rd Aug 2005, 15:40
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Early payment of preserved pensions

JSP764 – AFPS05 says:

“0313. Early payment of preserved pension with actuarial reduction. A
member who is not entitled to the immediate payment of a pension may apply for
immediate payment of an actuarially reduced pension, even if he is in receipt of
EDP, provided that:
(a) he is a deferred member who has reached the age of 55, or
(b) he is a pension credit member and has reached the age of 60.

The application to AFPAA must be in writing and the sum payable is determined
after consultation with the scheme actuary, who, in the case of a deferred member,
will take into account any inverse commutation which might have been applied
for in accordance with para 0339-0343. The decision becomes binding on the member
only after he has seen and accepted the actuary’s figures.”

This suggests that you could PVR and leave before age 55, then draw an EDP and reduced pension between 55 and 65.

Anyone looked into this or been given examples of how much the preserved pension would be reduced by if you were to draw it 10 years early at age 55? Also what would the effect be on the pension lump sum normally paid at 65?

D4R
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Old 23rd Aug 2005, 19:02
  #232 (permalink)  
 
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D4RP

Yes, the scheme rules allow that scenario. The actuarial tables are not published anywhere to my knowledge, so the only way you can obtain a figure is to make the application. Bearing in mind that you would be asking for your pension to come into payment up to 10 years early, you should expect a very significant downward adjustment of the rate. Remember also that this would be for life; your pension would not be restored at 65. There is no cost to you in asking the question, as you do not have to sign up until you have seen the Actuary's offer. As for the affect on lump sum, I haven't found the answer yet, but I will keep looking.

Regards

Ginseng
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Old 25th Aug 2005, 20:19
  #233 (permalink)  
 
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D4RP

The answer to your question on lump sum:

Statutory Instrument 2005 No 438, Part D, Rule D4, para 6:

"If a member exercises the option under this rule, the amount of the lump sum to which he becomes entitled is first calculated as mentioned in rule D.2(4) or, as the case may be, rule D.3(5) and then the amount is reduced by such amount as the Secretary of State determines after consultation with the Scheme actuary."

Hence, yes the lump sum is also actuarially reduced.

Hope that clears it up. Probably not what you were hoping to hear. Sorry.

Regards

Ginseng
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Old 28th Nov 2005, 20:57
  #234 (permalink)  
 
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Gents etc, tried all day to get sense out of PMA etc with no luck, and too many pages here to trawl through at this time of night, I have a simple question:

Do PA still have the option of 6 month notice to leave with an immediate pension under AFPS 05, or has that been replaced by the EDP scheme?
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Old 28th Nov 2005, 22:01
  #235 (permalink)  
 
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When is D-Day for us in the light blue to make up our minds?
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Old 29th Nov 2005, 17:50
  #236 (permalink)  
 
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Hueymaistre,

20th Jan 2006 according to scrolling news today.
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Old 30th Nov 2005, 15:33
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PlasticCabDriver

Simple Rules:

Leave from AFPS05 before age 55 (unless being invalided out):- you leave with an EDP until age 65.

Regards

Ginseng
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Old 30th Nov 2005, 23:42
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I thought I remembered hearing somewhere that regardless of when your return had to be in by, you could still change your mind up to April 1st if you got a letter to wherever it needed to go to in time, or am I making it up?
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Old 24th Dec 2005, 19:33
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I understand we now have until 31 Mar 06? Regardless, is anyone else in a similar position to this:

30something, don't know if you're going to be offered promotion or assimilation?

If you transfer to AFPS05 and don't get offered promotion or assimilation then you stand to lose a lot of money.

If you don't transfer, but then get promoted or assimilated and stay until you're 55, then you stand to lose a lot of money.

The problem is, you can't possibly know your future and the offer to transfer cannot be answered without an element of risk.

Personally, I think there should be an open offer to transfer should your terms of service change at any time in the future.

In the meantime, here is a suggestion for anyone else who is still undecided and wants to keep their options open:



Dear Sir,

OFFER TO TRANSFER TO AFPS 05

Thank you for the offer to transfer from AFPS 75 to AFPS 05. Unfortunately I do not have enough information available to make an informed decision at this time. In particular, I need to know the details of any future offer to change my terms of service before making the right choice to fit my personal circumstances.

I elect to defer my decision until I know how my career will progress.

Sincerely,

D-IFF_ident

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Old 24th Dec 2005, 20:45
  #240 (permalink)  
 
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Diffident

I might be wrong, but we are not asked to make a choice from a neutral standpoint, per sec. We are simply invited to join the new scheme by diverting from the default path, which is AFPS75. If an individual doesn't return the acceptance letter before the deadline (which appears to moving the right) the AFPAA have the right to take the view that he is not accepting the offer and intends to remain on AFPS75. Its the same principle as binning a double glazing deal in a mailshot. Therefore, if you "elect to defer" your decision you are effectively acknowledging receipt of the offer and then turning it down. You might get a return phone call or a letter to confirm that your reply was to decline the once only offer.
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