RN logo's on Flying Kit
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Well put. Articulate and to the point. Well done matey....
Now, I don't disagree with the concept at all. Im all for increasing the footprint of the FAA and encouraging the yoof of today to join the finest band of brothers and by far and away the most professional aviators in the Armed Forces. But why oh why did we choose that badge? It doesn't fit (cos the pen pocket is in the way) and it looks as though it should be accompanied by an AA badge. A lot of RN aviators proudly wear the White Ensign on their Left arms (an Oval badge which fits the shoulder).
So, who chose to have a rectangular badge which disappears up your arm pit?
Now, I don't disagree with the concept at all. Im all for increasing the footprint of the FAA and encouraging the yoof of today to join the finest band of brothers and by far and away the most professional aviators in the Armed Forces. But why oh why did we choose that badge? It doesn't fit (cos the pen pocket is in the way) and it looks as though it should be accompanied by an AA badge. A lot of RN aviators proudly wear the White Ensign on their Left arms (an Oval badge which fits the shoulder).
So, who chose to have a rectangular badge which disappears up your arm pit?
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VVC,
The logo is the only thing we will get funding for, as everything from DNR has to use it.
This is a first iteration, and with a little luck the next one will be smarter and probably a little smaller.
The ensign is just not recognised as the general public and yoof associate it with football clubs and soccer thuggery. The sad truth I'm afraid. We need the words (a la foul waether jacket).
The logo is the only thing we will get funding for, as everything from DNR has to use it.
This is a first iteration, and with a little luck the next one will be smarter and probably a little smaller.
The ensign is just not recognised as the general public and yoof associate it with football clubs and soccer thuggery. The sad truth I'm afraid. We need the words (a la foul waether jacket).
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VVC,
You must be REALLY short! Most of the RAF types round where I am can fit a Squadron crest on their left arm above the pen pocket, so unless this new RN Badge is more than 5" square it should fit - unless of course you are really SHORT.
On another point re wearing such a badge. In my day if the powers that be told me to put a badge on then you jolly well did. If the RN have decided to go for the corporate image thing and have one logo to represent it then so be it - most companies do. Look a the problems BA got into when they went all arty on their tails. Taking a look at the RN web-site shows a very clear corporate image and the logo looks fine to me.
Finally, if you are all wearing the same badge then what does it matter whether YOU like it or not.
So I guess its back to the bin and retrieve!
You must be REALLY short! Most of the RAF types round where I am can fit a Squadron crest on their left arm above the pen pocket, so unless this new RN Badge is more than 5" square it should fit - unless of course you are really SHORT.
On another point re wearing such a badge. In my day if the powers that be told me to put a badge on then you jolly well did. If the RN have decided to go for the corporate image thing and have one logo to represent it then so be it - most companies do. Look a the problems BA got into when they went all arty on their tails. Taking a look at the RN web-site shows a very clear corporate image and the logo looks fine to me.
Finally, if you are all wearing the same badge then what does it matter whether YOU like it or not.
So I guess its back to the bin and retrieve!
Last edited by Bismark; 27th Apr 2005 at 05:55.
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OK...I submit to yr better judgement (reluctantly) and will wear mine (but sadly not with pride). I wear my stripes with pride and I wear my cap with pride as it identifies me as a Naval Officer. This makes me look like a spotter at an airshow who has collected a few badges. But at the end of the day this is another prime example of General List Officers buggering about with the FAA.
I expect the FAA museum will do a roaring trade
5" square would be brill. This thing is enormous.... and my Pen pocket is on the left..... Now, what happened with the Blue Ovvies? Have they gona away or is that the next thing.
I expect the FAA museum will do a roaring trade
5" square would be brill. This thing is enormous.... and my Pen pocket is on the left..... Now, what happened with the Blue Ovvies? Have they gona away or is that the next thing.
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Hey All,
Sorry to side track a little....... but the first port of call these days for young aspiring people is usually a recruitment website.
So can someone please tell me (with all this banter about giving a positive separation of RN Aircrew from others) why is there a Bloody RAF GR7/9 plastered on the man FAA Web Page?????
Can't see rank on the Officers Shoulders but I bet he isn’t RN. Now that has been the primary picture on that page for over a year now. Why Oh Why then if the RN is trying to promote itself and its Air Branch is there not a Picture of a Dashing Lt Climbing out of an FA2 of 801sqn????? Maybe even a Junglie/Lynx/Merlin.
Like my other post suggests, even a Picture of an RN Officer sat in the Cockpit of N26, the Bright Bloody Orange Glider that PNGC have would give me a better idea that the chaps a member of the RN.........
Again, sorry to change the subject a little, but you get where I’m going with this.
Sorry to side track a little....... but the first port of call these days for young aspiring people is usually a recruitment website.
So can someone please tell me (with all this banter about giving a positive separation of RN Aircrew from others) why is there a Bloody RAF GR7/9 plastered on the man FAA Web Page?????
Can't see rank on the Officers Shoulders but I bet he isn’t RN. Now that has been the primary picture on that page for over a year now. Why Oh Why then if the RN is trying to promote itself and its Air Branch is there not a Picture of a Dashing Lt Climbing out of an FA2 of 801sqn????? Maybe even a Junglie/Lynx/Merlin.
Like my other post suggests, even a Picture of an RN Officer sat in the Cockpit of N26, the Bright Bloody Orange Glider that PNGC have would give me a better idea that the chaps a member of the RN.........
Again, sorry to change the subject a little, but you get where I’m going with this.
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On 2 weeks leave - can't wait to get back to work just so I can see this fabled badge, it's all very exciting!! Or as usual hasn't it made it up here (that's outside 20 miles from Culdrose / Yeovilton Si Click) yet??
Can't see what difference a small badge will make as we are always refered to in the press as the RAF despite flying a big red and grey helicopter with Royal Navy written down the side!!
Of course we could just give all aviation to the crabs and then it wouldn't make a difference anyway (I'll just get my coat).
Can't see what difference a small badge will make as we are always refered to in the press as the RAF despite flying a big red and grey helicopter with Royal Navy written down the side!!
Of course we could just give all aviation to the crabs and then it wouldn't make a difference anyway (I'll just get my coat).
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A very good point vector! Let us all know what the almighty decision is re your application. Back to smoking my pipe and remembering the old days!!
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Air Day Ovies
What is yr major malfunction chaps....???
1. We're talking about a badge to identify and promote the FAA/RN which in the grand scheme is going to be as cheap as chips but push out a corporate image and identify any Wafu on the telly as RN.
2. One each to go on Air Day ovies that are no doubt already littered with other badges from past sqn/ship/run ashore affiliations etc so what's the big deal. Let's not get carried away with the regs cos I'm sure in days of old it was decreed current sqn badge on arm and wings on chest only - Trappers concur?? No mention of ensigns etc, etc!! so lets not sling too many regs ehh.
3. As Si Clik states recruiting is a very real issue and the guys and girls coming through the doors have been hard won in competition with the larger conglomerates. And whilst lack of nos may be the keeper of the FRI's it will undoubtedly bring the unwanted merger of jobs/dual hatting, freq of mahogany bomber jobs and greater sea/shore ratios - speak to the Lynx boys!
4. VVHA - 'GL's running the FAA' and you walk around in a cap in yr flying ovies!! If that ain't showing GL tendencies then I'll eat my beret. Std - pass the pepper!!
5. Finally, as Si Clik has stated I'm sure with time there will be a re-iteration of the badge that will allow some personalistion as long as the essential criteria are met. Let's face it Wafu's love nothing better than spending their flying pay on trivia such as mugs/badges etc so lets see how it settles down!!!
1. We're talking about a badge to identify and promote the FAA/RN which in the grand scheme is going to be as cheap as chips but push out a corporate image and identify any Wafu on the telly as RN.
2. One each to go on Air Day ovies that are no doubt already littered with other badges from past sqn/ship/run ashore affiliations etc so what's the big deal. Let's not get carried away with the regs cos I'm sure in days of old it was decreed current sqn badge on arm and wings on chest only - Trappers concur?? No mention of ensigns etc, etc!! so lets not sling too many regs ehh.
3. As Si Clik states recruiting is a very real issue and the guys and girls coming through the doors have been hard won in competition with the larger conglomerates. And whilst lack of nos may be the keeper of the FRI's it will undoubtedly bring the unwanted merger of jobs/dual hatting, freq of mahogany bomber jobs and greater sea/shore ratios - speak to the Lynx boys!
4. VVHA - 'GL's running the FAA' and you walk around in a cap in yr flying ovies!! If that ain't showing GL tendencies then I'll eat my beret. Std - pass the pepper!!
5. Finally, as Si Clik has stated I'm sure with time there will be a re-iteration of the badge that will allow some personalistion as long as the essential criteria are met. Let's face it Wafu's love nothing better than spending their flying pay on trivia such as mugs/badges etc so lets see how it settles down!!!
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Still think you are missing the point Si.
Q. What was the finest recruiting advert for the FAA in history?
A. Top Gun! i.e. things blowing up, people having fun!!!(yes its silly and unrealistic, but so what?! It gets people through the door, and its what juvenile blokes i.e. future FAA aircrew like) And dont say those aren't the people you want, because thats what the rest of us are. Well paid kids with big toys. That doesn't stop us doing a good job.
Badges, especially ugly badges that will only be seen at airshows(can't wear your ovies home, that would be terrible) will make no difference to a public who can't read the large Royal Navy written on the side of the Cab.
Q. What was the finest recruiting advert for the FAA in history?
A. Top Gun! i.e. things blowing up, people having fun!!!(yes its silly and unrealistic, but so what?! It gets people through the door, and its what juvenile blokes i.e. future FAA aircrew like) And dont say those aren't the people you want, because thats what the rest of us are. Well paid kids with big toys. That doesn't stop us doing a good job.
Badges, especially ugly badges that will only be seen at airshows(can't wear your ovies home, that would be terrible) will make no difference to a public who can't read the large Royal Navy written on the side of the Cab.
If 'The Badge' is that square thing with the white ensign and 'Royal Navy' on it as per the RN website, then I can understand why it has received such a poor reception..
Surely a graphic designer could have come up with something better? Which might even fit on a flying coverall?
Surely a graphic designer could have come up with something better? Which might even fit on a flying coverall?
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vector 801, maybe I can help
It is probably due to the fact that Joint Force Harrier has been operating for a while now, and as the Sea Harrier draws down, RN aircrew are being trained on, and have been to/are currently on operations with RAF Sqns flying the GR7/7A. The RN are represented on all RAF GR7 Sqns, including the OCU (SNOT = Senior Naval Officer Training) and will remain so until 800 and 801 NAS become GR9 Sqns. At that point JHF will consist of 1(F), IV(AC), 800 and 801 Sqns at the sharp end and 20(R) as the OCU. There will still be cross-fertilization between the sqns and indeed RAF Sqns will still spend time at sea.
I would suggest that this is the reason the GR7 is featured in the main RN website, it is the future of RN fast jet aviation until JSF arrives (still to be operated jointly by RN and RAF aircrew).
So can someone please tell me (with all this banter about giving a positive separation of RN Aircrew from others) why is there a Bloody RAF GR7/9 plastered on the man FAA Web Page?????
I would suggest that this is the reason the GR7 is featured in the main RN website, it is the future of RN fast jet aviation until JSF arrives (still to be operated jointly by RN and RAF aircrew).
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Si Clik quote
"We in the RN have to apprecaite (sic) that we languish behind the other two services in the desire of young people to do the job. It is in the background and with Air Stations situated to the West of Bristol get little coverage and going to sea does not do it for most."
As you appear to be in the recruiting department for the Royal NAVY surely focussing on your fact that going to sea does not do it for most should be more important than a controversial badge that as many have pointed out will be as equally ignored as the different rank/flying/squadron badges, white ensign badge and writing on the aircraft are at present. Surely the sort of people the RN should be looking to recruit are those that have the ability to notice those sort of things and/or are prepared to ask questions or get off their butt to find out more??
"We in the RN have to apprecaite (sic) that we languish behind the other two services in the desire of young people to do the job. It is in the background and with Air Stations situated to the West of Bristol get little coverage and going to sea does not do it for most."
As you appear to be in the recruiting department for the Royal NAVY surely focussing on your fact that going to sea does not do it for most should be more important than a controversial badge that as many have pointed out will be as equally ignored as the different rank/flying/squadron badges, white ensign badge and writing on the aircraft are at present. Surely the sort of people the RN should be looking to recruit are those that have the ability to notice those sort of things and/or are prepared to ask questions or get off their butt to find out more??
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Renaissance!!
Ahh, Bootflap - you have just brought many fond memories flooding back!!
SNOT - for those who remember the hazy days swanning around off Bari and cruising the Med during the Adriatic patrols was a famous character referred to as 'Senior Naval Officer Tiger Terrace'!!
For those who dared to walk the hallowed ground of the famous tiggers without being able to proudly wear their badge would endure the fate of a 'terror shake' from a lesser known super hero 'Tabasco Man' or equally offensive mortal 'Chilly Wine Robin'
SNOT - for those who remember the hazy days swanning around off Bari and cruising the Med during the Adriatic patrols was a famous character referred to as 'Senior Naval Officer Tiger Terrace'!!
For those who dared to walk the hallowed ground of the famous tiggers without being able to proudly wear their badge would endure the fate of a 'terror shake' from a lesser known super hero 'Tabasco Man' or equally offensive mortal 'Chilly Wine Robin'
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In Fact "TB-Man" was around well before the Adriatic, prowling Tigger Terrace, Aardvark Alley and 2/5 deck at random. His side-kick, I do believe, was correctly called "Chilli Wine, The Boy Wonder".
Incidently, as one of a few honoured mortals who actually knows the secret identity of the original TB-Man, he happens to be a very successful 3 ringer now, on his way up the command chain!!!
So, evil doers beware.....................
Incidently, as one of a few honoured mortals who actually knows the secret identity of the original TB-Man, he happens to be a very successful 3 ringer now, on his way up the command chain!!!
So, evil doers beware.....................
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Fatobs,
If you work away from VL and CU then you will still get the badge, they were just the easiest place to issue them first. You're right about the writing thing but people still assume the pilots and obs inside the aircraft are RAF.
Tourist,
Your absolutely right about Top Gun but where is the money, interest from film makers etc. This sort of glossy stuff costs lots of dosh which as Making Waves proved doesn't always come off. Even the Fleet Air Arm TV programme made by ITV has yet to air because the network won't take it up.
SW,
The point is (as you well know) most Aircrew do not join the RN as a first choice (went to the RAF first) and actually quite a few don't like going to sea. The real issue is by a ratio of 7 to 1 they aren't getting off their butts and are going to the RAF.
As a general comment a recent trawl to find people to be involved in FAA specific PR led to only 6 Pilots (4 who had just got wings) coming forward with another 8 Observers out of a total cadre of 1000. If you want to help volunteer for all the PR, shows and opportunities to talk to young people. It is refreshing to talk to them, blow your own trumpet and be generally impressed at their enthusiasm for life and their interest in what you have to say. All those who have done it so far this year have enjoyed the opportunity and the chence for a runa shore outside the norm.
If you work away from VL and CU then you will still get the badge, they were just the easiest place to issue them first. You're right about the writing thing but people still assume the pilots and obs inside the aircraft are RAF.
Tourist,
Your absolutely right about Top Gun but where is the money, interest from film makers etc. This sort of glossy stuff costs lots of dosh which as Making Waves proved doesn't always come off. Even the Fleet Air Arm TV programme made by ITV has yet to air because the network won't take it up.
SW,
The point is (as you well know) most Aircrew do not join the RN as a first choice (went to the RAF first) and actually quite a few don't like going to sea. The real issue is by a ratio of 7 to 1 they aren't getting off their butts and are going to the RAF.
As a general comment a recent trawl to find people to be involved in FAA specific PR led to only 6 Pilots (4 who had just got wings) coming forward with another 8 Observers out of a total cadre of 1000. If you want to help volunteer for all the PR, shows and opportunities to talk to young people. It is refreshing to talk to them, blow your own trumpet and be generally impressed at their enthusiasm for life and their interest in what you have to say. All those who have done it so far this year have enjoyed the opportunity and the chence for a runa shore outside the norm.
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No, please don't.
Absolutely the last thing we need is the sort of dross that would be recruited by AEO's
"your most important job is your divisional work"
"we should chop a few pilots who are bad at writing reports"
they make me vomit
Absolutely the last thing we need is the sort of dross that would be recruited by AEO's
"your most important job is your divisional work"
"we should chop a few pilots who are bad at writing reports"
they make me vomit