Another Jury Finds Against MOD
Inter Arma Enim Silentius Lex Legis
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Another Jury Finds Against MOD
Oh dear!!
See here:
http://news.bbc.co.uk/1/hi/england/w...re/4013767.stm
And they don't go much further back than that.
There will be a few retired people choking on their soup tonight I suspect!!
Where will all this MOD bashing end??
See here:
http://news.bbc.co.uk/1/hi/england/w...re/4013767.stm
And they don't go much further back than that.
There will be a few retired people choking on their soup tonight I suspect!!
Where will all this MOD bashing end??
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Oh come on Gorilla - did you never experience the "request for volunteers" for "common cold" experiments. One assumes that if Porton had told the truth (just my supposition you understand), they could well have been very short of "volunteers".
How many people were experimented upon without ever being told what it was they were receiving? A rhetorical question of course since we shall never know but if high profile cases like this one and Gulf War Syndrome serves to stop such disgraceful tactics then it will have been worthwhile. There should be no time limit on these matters. I fully support drawing a line under what was done where it was anticipated no harm could come to any one and the truth was told.
How many people were experimented upon without ever being told what it was they were receiving? A rhetorical question of course since we shall never know but if high profile cases like this one and Gulf War Syndrome serves to stop such disgraceful tactics then it will have been worthwhile. There should be no time limit on these matters. I fully support drawing a line under what was done where it was anticipated no harm could come to any one and the truth was told.
Tightgit
I don't think anyone still serving can have been under any illusion as to what was required a Porton Down. I can remember DCI's asking for volunteers in the 70's and 80's. None of it was for researching the common cold! (and I know of one idiot who did volunteer
).....not me though!!(implying that I'm an idiot who didn't!)
).....not me though!!(implying that I'm an idiot who didn't!)
I don't own this space under my name. I should have leased it while I still could
Handysnaks, the only time I was ever glad to go in the gas chamber was at ISL. The rocks let on that a number of 'volunteers' were going to trial the new S10 respirator for 24 hours.
The volunteers were going to live and work normally on camp for 24 hrs eating and sleeping with the dam thing on. I discovered I was one of the volunteers.
10.5 nanoseconds later I reorganised the sqn programme and sponned someone else!
The volunteers were going to live and work normally on camp for 24 hrs eating and sleeping with the dam thing on. I discovered I was one of the volunteers.
10.5 nanoseconds later I reorganised the sqn programme and sponned someone else!
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And within the current climate of "Claims R Us", how long will it be before the current practice of marching all service men and women into a sealed hut and exposing them to CS gas on an annual basis is banned?
I was one of those idiots that did volunteer in 1979. And I took every possible combination of drugs on Op Granby. I'm OK, fail to see what the problem is. Sickly child. Wibble.
Thanks for confirming about those DCIs in the 70's Handysnaks, I thought my memory was playing up as I recall them too.
I was a bit taken aback by the recent reporting that stated that nobody had been asked to volunteer to undertake trials at Porton after 1960-something, as I was sure volunteers were still being used right up until the 1980's. I have to admit to being tempted as an impecunious youth, as I seem to remember you got extra leave and a payment for doing it. I'm also pretty sure that the DCI didn't state what it was you were volunteering for; it was a colleague who told me is was "common cold research".
I was a bit taken aback by the recent reporting that stated that nobody had been asked to volunteer to undertake trials at Porton after 1960-something, as I was sure volunteers were still being used right up until the 1980's. I have to admit to being tempted as an impecunious youth, as I seem to remember you got extra leave and a payment for doing it. I'm also pretty sure that the DCI didn't state what it was you were volunteering for; it was a colleague who told me is was "common cold research".
Last edited by VP959; 16th Nov 2004 at 19:34.
Avoid imitations
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I certainly remember requests for volunteers for Porton Down in the mid 1980s; promulgated in orders at Odiham.
Research into the common cold? My ar$e!
No, I had a cold so I couldn't go......
Research into the common cold? My ar$e!
No, I had a cold so I couldn't go......
Yes, Him
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The requests for volunteers to go to Porton was in SROs at every Station I served at, promulgated (nice Service Speak eh?) at least every other month, from 1967 to 1977.
Incentive was extra cash and extra leave.
I know of one Class A eejet who went, but he was a drooling banjo strummer type before, so it was difficult to discern any change afterwards.
Incentive was extra cash and extra leave.
I know of one Class A eejet who went, but he was a drooling banjo strummer type before, so it was difficult to discern any change afterwards.
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Hmm,
The practise of subjecting military personnel to the effects of CS should only be done whilst the recruit is undertaking basic training. This serves two purposes:
a. To show the recruit the effects.
b. To give the recruit cofidence in his/her equipment.
Interesting, no?
ISITD
The practise of subjecting military personnel to the effects of CS should only be done whilst the recruit is undertaking basic training. This serves two purposes:
a. To show the recruit the effects.
b. To give the recruit cofidence in his/her equipment.
Interesting, no?
ISITD
I think I should clarify, volunteers for Porton Down in 1979 went for a period of two weeks. No extra leave was granted but a wrrant to a destination of your choice was on offer for the weekend that straddled the fortnight. Each experiment warranted a payment of 7s 6d (the figure was set prior to decimalisation) or 37.5p. At the time this was not considered much of an incentive so they got round it by stating that everything was an experiment....pulse taking=37.5p, temeperature=37.5p and so on. After a fortnight, I got about £50 but was taxed on this. I did do respirator/NBC suit perfomance trials under extreme physical exertion (bolloxed) and we took a series of tablets that were designed to replace the 4 horse tablet oxyemes. NAPS (sound familiar) they were called. After having our pupils photographed to show normal size, we were put in a nerve gas chamber for a measured amount of time and a measured dosage and then our pupils photographed again. I appeared to suffer more than my colleagues which,when it was revealed that I was the "control" experiment taking powdered milk tablets explained all. We also tested the Lion Alcometer (breath test machine used to replace the blow in the bag). Hammered at 1330 hours after the best part of a bottle of whiskey all in the interests of road safety!
Odstock, to south of Salisbury, however was a civilian common cold experimentation unit. Military volunteers were asked for and no leave was docked from your ticket but you were effectively in open jail as you were not allowed to leave the place for 14 straight days. Military volunteers were appreciated but in the words of one admin assistant who had to give a compulsory advertising blurb, the problem was we were too damn healthy! Odstock was satellite convalescence wards for RAF Odstock Military Hospital during the last war and was flattened about 10-15 years ago. It is now a housing estate.
Well organised and all open during my time there, no complaints. I feel for those that suffer but perhaps two things need looking at, firstly, the selection process/screening (there wasn't one) may have weeded the weaker personnel out and in the back of my mind, I think there is an element of gold digging by some and the MOD is always an easy target. I hope that I can be proved wrong.
Odstock, to south of Salisbury, however was a civilian common cold experimentation unit. Military volunteers were asked for and no leave was docked from your ticket but you were effectively in open jail as you were not allowed to leave the place for 14 straight days. Military volunteers were appreciated but in the words of one admin assistant who had to give a compulsory advertising blurb, the problem was we were too damn healthy! Odstock was satellite convalescence wards for RAF Odstock Military Hospital during the last war and was flattened about 10-15 years ago. It is now a housing estate.
Well organised and all open during my time there, no complaints. I feel for those that suffer but perhaps two things need looking at, firstly, the selection process/screening (there wasn't one) may have weeded the weaker personnel out and in the back of my mind, I think there is an element of gold digging by some and the MOD is always an easy target. I hope that I can be proved wrong.
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All,
As they say in the miltary 'Never volunteer for anything!'
If the MoD had some minereals, they wouldn't be fighting all these courts battles and perhaps we could get the kit which these 'volunteers' tested. Cheers easy!!
Money grabbing t*ssers.
isitd
As they say in the miltary 'Never volunteer for anything!'
If the MoD had some minereals, they wouldn't be fighting all these courts battles and perhaps we could get the kit which these 'volunteers' tested. Cheers easy!!
Money grabbing t*ssers.
isitd
