Question for any PVR gurus out there...
Thread Starter
Question for any PVR gurus out there...
Hi, for anyone who has done it, or who may know the score, what’s the situation regarding flying pay and PVR? Is it true you lose it from the day you sign off? Even though the military will enforce a 7 – 12 month notice period on you?
Also does anyone know when they demand the FRI money back and if there are any problems getting the tax back from the inland revenue (because I assume the pay office take back Gross, rather than the Net they actually paid out!). Naturally, it would be a lot easier if they demanded the money back at the end of the 7 month period rather than the start!
I assume it will be all worst case, ie, flying pay stops now, FRI gets deducted immediately and you're made to serve for the full 12 months for good measure...
Grateful for anyone who could shed a bit of light on this for me.
Also does anyone know when they demand the FRI money back and if there are any problems getting the tax back from the inland revenue (because I assume the pay office take back Gross, rather than the Net they actually paid out!). Naturally, it would be a lot easier if they demanded the money back at the end of the 7 month period rather than the start!
I assume it will be all worst case, ie, flying pay stops now, FRI gets deducted immediately and you're made to serve for the full 12 months for good measure...
Grateful for anyone who could shed a bit of light on this for me.
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I continued to recieve flying pay during the six months notice i did between pvr ing and leaving, as did the others who pvred at the time.
I didn\'t fly during that period though!
I didn\'t fly during that period though!
You should be able to access the Blunt Ones APs on line via HM's intranet these days.
Whilst doing PVR-porridge at Binnsworth, I discovered all sorts of useful things that way whilst whiling away the chuff-days. Including various requirements which certain DeskO's had overlooked and which therefore meant that I was able to tell a colleague that he/she/it could state quite categorically that he/she/it had only been 'considering' requesting an extension of service rather than formally requesting it - because no paperwork had been raised by the Sqn Cdr.
Which made quite a difference between his/her/its 'ORD retirement' pension rate and 'PVR from Extended Service' pension rate.
Whilst doing PVR-porridge at Binnsworth, I discovered all sorts of useful things that way whilst whiling away the chuff-days. Including various requirements which certain DeskO's had overlooked and which therefore meant that I was able to tell a colleague that he/she/it could state quite categorically that he/she/it had only been 'considering' requesting an extension of service rather than formally requesting it - because no paperwork had been raised by the Sqn Cdr.
Which made quite a difference between his/her/its 'ORD retirement' pension rate and 'PVR from Extended Service' pension rate.
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Hi Chris,
I have recently PVR'd from light blue and the rules may differ from Service to service. This way it depends on where you are going. If you are jumping ship for another of the forces, the rules state that you stay on the rates you were on at the PVR point. As for FRIs, don't know. I did leave the browns to come this way in the first place and when I PVR'd then, my flying pay stayed the same. Hope this helps. Rgds from the eastern med holiday isle.
I have recently PVR'd from light blue and the rules may differ from Service to service. This way it depends on where you are going. If you are jumping ship for another of the forces, the rules state that you stay on the rates you were on at the PVR point. As for FRIs, don't know. I did leave the browns to come this way in the first place and when I PVR'd then, my flying pay stayed the same. Hope this helps. Rgds from the eastern med holiday isle.
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My experience late last year..
Flying pay goes down from the date the PVR form is stamped at your handbrake house. Takes about 2 months for PMC to action this depending upon where you are in the pay cycle.
You have to pay the whole amount of the FRI back and then usually at the end of the tax year (but there are procedures to do it earlier) claim back the tax you paid when you received the FRI.
I made sure I PVR'd just one week outside my FRI window!!
Flying pay goes down from the date the PVR form is stamped at your handbrake house. Takes about 2 months for PMC to action this depending upon where you are in the pay cycle.
You have to pay the whole amount of the FRI back and then usually at the end of the tax year (but there are procedures to do it earlier) claim back the tax you paid when you received the FRI.
I made sure I PVR'd just one week outside my FRI window!!
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Huey
Thats the way it works, the fact you only received say £3k of a £5k FRI is your problem according to the MOD. The MOD paid you a £5K FRI, YOU paid the taxman the £2K. Simple as that!!
I was told that if I had to pay my FRI back then, just like my LSAP, it would be paid back out of my gratuity at the end of my service.
As I said, I didn't actually have to pay my FRI back and things may have changed since last year!!
Thats the way it works, the fact you only received say £3k of a £5k FRI is your problem according to the MOD. The MOD paid you a £5K FRI, YOU paid the taxman the £2K. Simple as that!!
I was told that if I had to pay my FRI back then, just like my LSAP, it would be paid back out of my gratuity at the end of my service.
As I said, I didn't actually have to pay my FRI back and things may have changed since last year!!
Thread Starter
thanks for all the advice.
Surely (don't call me that...), but surely if the FRI has kept me in for 2 years and I leave, I don't have to pay all of it back? presumably I'd have to pay 60% as it only retained me for 2 years instead of 5?
grateful if anyone knows, although I will speak to admin in due course. I just want to find out what the unofficial score is as I am merely "considering my options" at this stage.
cheers!
Surely (don't call me that...), but surely if the FRI has kept me in for 2 years and I leave, I don't have to pay all of it back? presumably I'd have to pay 60% as it only retained me for 2 years instead of 5?
grateful if anyone knows, although I will speak to admin in due course. I just want to find out what the unofficial score is as I am merely "considering my options" at this stage.
cheers!
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ChristopherRobin......
..........you need to towel behind your ears, chum!!
In simple-speak, you get a £5K FRI, you payback £5K, irrespective of how long you did/think you did etc.
The DEAL regarding the FRI was a 5 year return of service - anything less and you pay it ALL back, it's that simple!
In simple-speak, you get a £5K FRI, you payback £5K, irrespective of how long you did/think you did etc.
The DEAL regarding the FRI was a 5 year return of service - anything less and you pay it ALL back, it's that simple!
Thread Starter
So it would seem, "chum".
The RAF Intranet Q&A section on the ARR certainly suggests so - something I have only just found out since I made my last post.
It does seem strange that they can pro-rata the money when they give it to you, eg if you only have 3 years to IPP they only pay you a fraction of the FRI, yet if you take the money at 5 years and then leave at 3 to go, they want the whole lot back.
I'm no expert on employment law, but I understand that the basis of any employment contract normally is that it is fair; in theory if one served until 1 day before the IPP and resigned then, incurring full repayment of the FRI, one would have to refund the service the full FRI.
Admittedly no one would be that stupid, but it does, I think demonstrate the fairness or otherwise of that employment contract. I'm not complaining, having signed up to many worse things than this in the military, but it does illustrate what could possibly be an interesting point.
I wonder has anyone punched out of the FRI yet to test the system?
And Trumpet Trousers, that may be the DEAL, and I may need to towel behind my ears, but I expect that you would have been the sort of person to say the same to women who got pregnant and then complained when they got kicked out.
...look what happened there, "chum".
The RAF Intranet Q&A section on the ARR certainly suggests so - something I have only just found out since I made my last post.
It does seem strange that they can pro-rata the money when they give it to you, eg if you only have 3 years to IPP they only pay you a fraction of the FRI, yet if you take the money at 5 years and then leave at 3 to go, they want the whole lot back.
I'm no expert on employment law, but I understand that the basis of any employment contract normally is that it is fair; in theory if one served until 1 day before the IPP and resigned then, incurring full repayment of the FRI, one would have to refund the service the full FRI.
Admittedly no one would be that stupid, but it does, I think demonstrate the fairness or otherwise of that employment contract. I'm not complaining, having signed up to many worse things than this in the military, but it does illustrate what could possibly be an interesting point.
I wonder has anyone punched out of the FRI yet to test the system?
And Trumpet Trousers, that may be the DEAL, and I may need to towel behind my ears, but I expect that you would have been the sort of person to say the same to women who got pregnant and then complained when they got kicked out.
...look what happened there, "chum".
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Chris Robby
You mention a couple of things that don't apply to you because you are in HM Forces..
1.. You do not have a contract of employment in any form.
2.. The majority of employment laws do not apply to HM Forces.
If you leave in the 4th year of a 5 year FRI scheme, you get to pay the whole lot back!!
Why? Because they can!!
You mention a couple of things that don't apply to you because you are in HM Forces..
1.. You do not have a contract of employment in any form.
2.. The majority of employment laws do not apply to HM Forces.
If you leave in the 4th year of a 5 year FRI scheme, you get to pay the whole lot back!!
Why? Because they can!!
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ChristopherRobin:
I feel you may have taken offence at my reply to you - none intended I can assure you...
...I can't believe that you're that naive (sp?) that you think you're on a level playing field with the 'wheels'.......before you know it, the bat will be well and truly invisible!!
...If you need further convincing, take a look at the draft DCI regarding the forthcoming redundancies....all those that accepted NCA PAS will revert to their previous terms (if selected for redundancy) having failed to complete the requisite 5 year ROS.
"So what?" I hear you say.......well, look at the effective dates of the introduction of the NCA PAS and the qualifying criteria for redundancy........then ask yourself if anyone is able to ACTUALLY complete a 5 year ROS based on those dates.....
I feel you may have taken offence at my reply to you - none intended I can assure you...
...I can't believe that you're that naive (sp?) that you think you're on a level playing field with the 'wheels'.......before you know it, the bat will be well and truly invisible!!
...If you need further convincing, take a look at the draft DCI regarding the forthcoming redundancies....all those that accepted NCA PAS will revert to their previous terms (if selected for redundancy) having failed to complete the requisite 5 year ROS.
"So what?" I hear you say.......well, look at the effective dates of the introduction of the NCA PAS and the qualifying criteria for redundancy........then ask yourself if anyone is able to ACTUALLY complete a 5 year ROS based on those dates.....
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Flying Pay:
These are the RN rules but I bet they are the same for the Army/RAF. If you are on higher rate, when you PVR you go down to middle rate (for the time you serve till you leave). If you are on middle rate, when you PVR you go down to lower rate etc etc.
FRI:
You have to pay it all back I'm afraid (then claim the tax back later) - by signing to accept it you signed to be bound by this rule.
HTH
These are the RN rules but I bet they are the same for the Army/RAF. If you are on higher rate, when you PVR you go down to middle rate (for the time you serve till you leave). If you are on middle rate, when you PVR you go down to lower rate etc etc.
FRI:
You have to pay it all back I'm afraid (then claim the tax back later) - by signing to accept it you signed to be bound by this rule.
HTH
Thread Starter
TT - no offence taken.
Thanks to all for the advice, like I said, I'm not complaining, just surprised that they can get away with it.
I'll let you know how I get on, at least it's a relief not to get flying pay chopped completely (as I had heard that you do)
Best that golden handshake is a good one...
...and I did say handshake!
Thanks to all for the advice, like I said, I'm not complaining, just surprised that they can get away with it.
I'll let you know how I get on, at least it's a relief not to get flying pay chopped completely (as I had heard that you do)
Best that golden handshake is a good one...
...and I did say handshake!
