Cosford Airshow
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Propwash,
I’m afraid your arguments don’t hold true! This years ‘line up’ was utter sh1te! I appreciate that there’s a big limitation in terms of runway length and limited parking, but it’s worked in previous years. Why not drag out some of the aircraft stuffed behind the hangar… a real tornado rather than some plastic mock-up, what about the Dominies just sat there… get them out on show. Even some of the museum aircraft were tucked away out of view. The whole thing was a real disappointment. They’ve just had the new restoration building put up in the last few years… Why not open it up and show people what is going on, and how these aircraft are restored. All in all I thought it was just a visit to the museum with a bit of flying thrown in. A real disappointment. And it was £15…. Not £12!
I’m afraid your arguments don’t hold true! This years ‘line up’ was utter sh1te! I appreciate that there’s a big limitation in terms of runway length and limited parking, but it’s worked in previous years. Why not drag out some of the aircraft stuffed behind the hangar… a real tornado rather than some plastic mock-up, what about the Dominies just sat there… get them out on show. Even some of the museum aircraft were tucked away out of view. The whole thing was a real disappointment. They’ve just had the new restoration building put up in the last few years… Why not open it up and show people what is going on, and how these aircraft are restored. All in all I thought it was just a visit to the museum with a bit of flying thrown in. A real disappointment. And it was £15…. Not £12!
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PR9 - Was in the programme (civvie owned I admit, programmers got it wrong) was going to be there but, as said before they couldn't get a spare engine.
Yozza, didn't you see the amount of smoke pouring from that falcon's leg? Appreciate that technical faults do sometimes happen and don't make unfounded slurs on the professionalism of our Armed Forces Display teams.
Grob Driver, no dominies at Cosford, sorry mate. So, in light of your comments how would you have organised things???
Yozza, didn't you see the amount of smoke pouring from that falcon's leg? Appreciate that technical faults do sometimes happen and don't make unfounded slurs on the professionalism of our Armed Forces Display teams.
Grob Driver, no dominies at Cosford, sorry mate. So, in light of your comments how would you have organised things???
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The PR9 may well have been in the programme. But it was never going to be there and there isn't a PR9 flying display. There is no civvie PR9, only a B2/6 and that isn't flying at any shows this year. There will be a PR9 static at Kemble.
Reichman
Reichman
.....way back in the past (ok, '91 - just after GW1), I distinctly remember being thrown around in the back of K Albert (and driven out the back at high speed 
) during a Tac Demo at said Airfield.
But, then the mighty 130 is of course a tactical aircraft
) during a Tac Demo at said Airfield.But, then the mighty 130 is of course a tactical aircraft
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Propwash
I’m so sorry… when I was posting my last reply, I did so on the understanding that you were somehow involved with Cosford, and would therefore know what airframes are there!
“No Dominies at Cosford”
Well my dear chap, next time you’re on the airfield, my I suggest you open your eyes a little for I know of at least two! I forget what number it is, but the hangar which had the robot wars in it... Walk through that hangar and look out the back! A handful for tornado’s and Jaguars, two Sea Kings (Navy ones at that!!) and a couple of Dominies. So, I raise the question once more, why couldn’t the RAF drag out some of the airframes they have at Cosford (Including a Dominie!) for people to see?
In fact, a quick look here Dominies shows that there are 6 Dominies at Cosford!
Also, what’s the reason for closing the restoration hangar? The whole show looked to me like they just couldn’t be bothered. It’s a shame… It’s normally a very nice show to visit!
I’m so sorry… when I was posting my last reply, I did so on the understanding that you were somehow involved with Cosford, and would therefore know what airframes are there!
“No Dominies at Cosford”
Well my dear chap, next time you’re on the airfield, my I suggest you open your eyes a little for I know of at least two! I forget what number it is, but the hangar which had the robot wars in it... Walk through that hangar and look out the back! A handful for tornado’s and Jaguars, two Sea Kings (Navy ones at that!!) and a couple of Dominies. So, I raise the question once more, why couldn’t the RAF drag out some of the airframes they have at Cosford (Including a Dominie!) for people to see?
In fact, a quick look here Dominies shows that there are 6 Dominies at Cosford!
Also, what’s the reason for closing the restoration hangar? The whole show looked to me like they just couldn’t be bothered. It’s a shame… It’s normally a very nice show to visit!
Hi
I reacon why the Typhoon display (if you could call it that) was so short is because they can only AFFORD ONE and that has to limit flight hours at displays in case it is ever needed.
The Chinook was brill and at one point I thought the C130 was going to roll, it was very very impressive.
I reacon why the Typhoon display (if you could call it that) was so short is because they can only AFFORD ONE and that has to limit flight hours at displays in case it is ever needed.
The Chinook was brill and at one point I thought the C130 was going to roll, it was very very impressive.
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Propwash,
Some good points - however, please don't be so negative towards the so called 'volunteers not display pilots' as regards the vigilant.
As an ex 'professional' pilot of various types and now a 'volunteer' with the Vigilant I can say that the airframe is the limitation (however I'm sure the Wrights would have been pleased with 55Kt climb, 90 Kt cruise) and not the pilot ability, from what I have seen so far the average VGS pilot is very motivated and profesional.
Personally I think that it would be nice to see some of my volunteer comrades flying alongside the 'display pilots'
So long and short of it - lets not be sniffy - we all try to aviate some just get bigger toys than others.
Some good points - however, please don't be so negative towards the so called 'volunteers not display pilots' as regards the vigilant.
As an ex 'professional' pilot of various types and now a 'volunteer' with the Vigilant I can say that the airframe is the limitation (however I'm sure the Wrights would have been pleased with 55Kt climb, 90 Kt cruise) and not the pilot ability, from what I have seen so far the average VGS pilot is very motivated and profesional.
Personally I think that it would be nice to see some of my volunteer comrades flying alongside the 'display pilots'
So long and short of it - lets not be sniffy - we all try to aviate some just get bigger toys than others.
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Propwash,
Did you go to Cosford airshow this year??? I'm not convinced you did, you see, because you make some pretty glaring errors in your posting:
'First, lets set a few things straight. The tickets cost £12 for an adult' - wrong, the tickets were, as Grob Driver says, £15.00
'especially as all proceeds have gone to charity' - wrong, I think you'll find a big chunk goes to the museum (but no complaints with that, its ALL a good cause to me)
'first of which is runway. Cosford's is all of in the region of 4000 ft, not many RAF aircraft can fit on that, save helicopters and light aircraft' - wrong, what about C-130's as in previous years?
'Cosford, you may have noticed, is not particularly large' - nearly wrong! yes its not your Waddo or Brize, but it is certainly big enough to display a lot more static than it did.
I'm not too sure about your comments regarding BAe146 and E-3d and war?? I'd go along with you on the 146, but the E-3D?? come on, you must be having a laugh old boy. I can speak from a position of experience here and tell you the the E-3D world (of which I was one) were the first into Bosnia/Kosavo and the last ones out. The same goes for Afghanistan and Gulf War 2.
My biggest winge, and those of others here, is that Cosfords constraints and limitations are well understood by most people. What is NOT understood is why they couldn't be bothered to wheel out some of the 'more routine' exhibits like the Dominies, like the RN Sea Kings, the REAL Tornados etc. etc. aswell as open up that new restoration hangar.
And lastly, the Vigilant may not whizz round and 450kts with its tail on fire, but so what? It was there, and I for one would rather watch a Vigilant flying around, albeit at 55 kts, than nothing at all. So well done to the volunteers!
Kind regards
The Swinging Monkey
'Caruthers, a glass of Grouse for the Volunteers I think!'
Did you go to Cosford airshow this year??? I'm not convinced you did, you see, because you make some pretty glaring errors in your posting:
'First, lets set a few things straight. The tickets cost £12 for an adult' - wrong, the tickets were, as Grob Driver says, £15.00
'especially as all proceeds have gone to charity' - wrong, I think you'll find a big chunk goes to the museum (but no complaints with that, its ALL a good cause to me)
'first of which is runway. Cosford's is all of in the region of 4000 ft, not many RAF aircraft can fit on that, save helicopters and light aircraft' - wrong, what about C-130's as in previous years?
'Cosford, you may have noticed, is not particularly large' - nearly wrong! yes its not your Waddo or Brize, but it is certainly big enough to display a lot more static than it did.
I'm not too sure about your comments regarding BAe146 and E-3d and war?? I'd go along with you on the 146, but the E-3D?? come on, you must be having a laugh old boy. I can speak from a position of experience here and tell you the the E-3D world (of which I was one) were the first into Bosnia/Kosavo and the last ones out. The same goes for Afghanistan and Gulf War 2.
My biggest winge, and those of others here, is that Cosfords constraints and limitations are well understood by most people. What is NOT understood is why they couldn't be bothered to wheel out some of the 'more routine' exhibits like the Dominies, like the RN Sea Kings, the REAL Tornados etc. etc. aswell as open up that new restoration hangar.
And lastly, the Vigilant may not whizz round and 450kts with its tail on fire, but so what? It was there, and I for one would rather watch a Vigilant flying around, albeit at 55 kts, than nothing at all. So well done to the volunteers!
Kind regards
The Swinging Monkey
'Caruthers, a glass of Grouse for the Volunteers I think!'
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As for the others you mentioned, since when did the vigilant go to war? Had you seen one fly (at 55kts, by volunteers NOT display pilots) you'd agree it is not airshow material
I'm a volunteer. Be careful what you say.
Oh and by the way, In Australia, the vigilant equivalent over there is used for photo recce, not just to train young people to fly.
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Monkeyboy,
You need to get your own facts straight before you whine at me for messing up. Tickets were £12 if bought in advance, although they were £15 on the gate.
Yes, half the proceeds do go to the RAF museum, which is a registered charity so my argument holds true.
My statememt earlier was not directed at E3D's and the like and was purely designed to emphasise my earlier point that we had a vast majority of RAF Fast Jet aircraft. Read the posts carefully and I'm sure you'll see where I was coming from.
If you were at Cosford you'd have seen the C-130 K and J models both land successfully on the runway. Not a problem. Now try and find a combination of somewhere to park (baring in mind that we could not use the grass surfaces for heavies) and somebody to bring one in.
Agreed it would have been nice to see the restoration hangar open, not sure why it couldn't be but I'm sure if you phone the museum they'll give you an explanation.
ACW 335, I think you'll find you now use 55kts in the Vig. As a vig driver AND a serving pilot myself I have nothing to say against the work of the VGS crews, except to point out that no, you don't have auth to fly a display. To get that you'd have to go in front of the participation comittee and have relevant insurance etc. Anyway, can you see that great World Avgas (Not Kerosene) Executive Retailer allowing anyone to chandelle HIS babies at 100ft?
The VGS at Cosford applied to fly a couple of cadets in the morning before the show as a kind of role demo, but it was decided that despite the good PR it would have given the VGS and the Air Cadets in general, it was not feasible.
You need to get your own facts straight before you whine at me for messing up. Tickets were £12 if bought in advance, although they were £15 on the gate.
Yes, half the proceeds do go to the RAF museum, which is a registered charity so my argument holds true.
My statememt earlier was not directed at E3D's and the like and was purely designed to emphasise my earlier point that we had a vast majority of RAF Fast Jet aircraft. Read the posts carefully and I'm sure you'll see where I was coming from.
If you were at Cosford you'd have seen the C-130 K and J models both land successfully on the runway. Not a problem. Now try and find a combination of somewhere to park (baring in mind that we could not use the grass surfaces for heavies) and somebody to bring one in.
Agreed it would have been nice to see the restoration hangar open, not sure why it couldn't be but I'm sure if you phone the museum they'll give you an explanation.
ACW 335, I think you'll find you now use 55kts in the Vig. As a vig driver AND a serving pilot myself I have nothing to say against the work of the VGS crews, except to point out that no, you don't have auth to fly a display. To get that you'd have to go in front of the participation comittee and have relevant insurance etc. Anyway, can you see that great World Avgas (Not Kerosene) Executive Retailer allowing anyone to chandelle HIS babies at 100ft?
The VGS at Cosford applied to fly a couple of cadets in the morning before the show as a kind of role demo, but it was decided that despite the good PR it would have given the VGS and the Air Cadets in general, it was not feasible.
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ACW 335, I think you'll find you now use 55kts in the Vig. As a vig driver AND a serving pilot myself I have nothing to say against the work of the VGS crews, except to point out that no, you don't have auth to fly a display. To get that you'd have to go in front of the participation comittee and have relevant insurance etc. Anyway, can you see that great World Avgas (Not Kerosene) Executive Retailer allowing anyone to chandelle HIS babies at 100ft?
And no...i wouldnt chandelle a vigilant at 100ft!Maybe at 500ft at the least!
You still at cosford? or are you holding somewhere else?
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As the thread drifts away from a disappointing day towards the ATC, my opinion is that: A huge ammount of teenage boys and girls present in and out of uniform were probably cadets. To state to parents with an encouragable level of pride: "See that mum/dad; thats what we do" is essential. I have seen the formation glider display which I think is RAFGSA and it is good albeit quiet! but with smoke from the wingtips and the skills required to complete such a display without power is admirable.
If Cosford cannot cope with a display then send it somewhere that can, Hi Shawbury!! I have seen town shows with more military appeal then Cosford had this weekend, and the Army / TA / Regt are the people with most public interaction.
In view of recent celebrations, the Dakota and C130 could have completed a Para drop with (amazingly) the parachute regiment; for with a ground display in attendance this would have raised their profile and recruitment stats. Are there still RAF Regt paras?
Were where the rocks with Rapier, or have they gone to? If George Dubya and mates are our big buddies, where were they?
As for airliners being a non starter, that is rubbish, and Mr Branson and others have done exactly that at other shows.
For those here emotionally involved in the running of this years show, take it on the chin: You let the public and yourselves down; listen to the debrief and get it sorted next year, for good bad or indifferant, I and thousands of others will return.
Asta La Vista
If Cosford cannot cope with a display then send it somewhere that can, Hi Shawbury!! I have seen town shows with more military appeal then Cosford had this weekend, and the Army / TA / Regt are the people with most public interaction.
In view of recent celebrations, the Dakota and C130 could have completed a Para drop with (amazingly) the parachute regiment; for with a ground display in attendance this would have raised their profile and recruitment stats. Are there still RAF Regt paras?
Were where the rocks with Rapier, or have they gone to? If George Dubya and mates are our big buddies, where were they?
As for airliners being a non starter, that is rubbish, and Mr Branson and others have done exactly that at other shows.
For those here emotionally involved in the running of this years show, take it on the chin: You let the public and yourselves down; listen to the debrief and get it sorted next year, for good bad or indifferant, I and thousands of others will return.
Asta La Vista
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Propwash, and still no Dominies! (In fact… not even a comment on Dominies… or Sea Kings, or Real Tornados!!!) The whole show was a big disappointment!
Cosford may not have the largest aprons in the airforce, but a bit of thought and forward planning would go a long way! How about getting rid of all those bl00dy cars parked in between the hangars (who actually goes to an air show to buy a car anyway?) and get some aircraft in there. I think a harrier can manage with 40’, never mind 4000’!!!! get a herc in there too, and a couple of helicopters, and suddenly it stars looking alike an air show. If I want a car, I’ll either go to my local dealer or visit the motor show… not RAF Cosford!
Cosford may not have the largest aprons in the airforce, but a bit of thought and forward planning would go a long way! How about getting rid of all those bl00dy cars parked in between the hangars (who actually goes to an air show to buy a car anyway?) and get some aircraft in there. I think a harrier can manage with 40’, never mind 4000’!!!! get a herc in there too, and a couple of helicopters, and suddenly it stars looking alike an air show. If I want a car, I’ll either go to my local dealer or visit the motor show… not RAF Cosford!
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Propwash,
'MonkeyBoy' eh? well I'll take that as a compliment, although I'm sure it wasn't meant as such.
I wont waste my time with your trivial explantions.
Yes I was at Cosford, but I didn't see either of the Hercs' but what the heck!
It WAS a poor show, of that there can be no argumant. The sad part is that it didn't need to be. RAF Cosford could and should have done a great deal more, and unless they pull their socks up, I fear that the public will simply vote with their feet
Kind regards
The Swinging MonkeyBoy!!!'
'MonkeyBoy' eh? well I'll take that as a compliment, although I'm sure it wasn't meant as such.
I wont waste my time with your trivial explantions.
Yes I was at Cosford, but I didn't see either of the Hercs' but what the heck!
It WAS a poor show, of that there can be no argumant. The sad part is that it didn't need to be. RAF Cosford could and should have done a great deal more, and unless they pull their socks up, I fear that the public will simply vote with their feet
Kind regards
The Swinging MonkeyBoy!!!'
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I can't speak for the others, but the absence of the Nimrod was due to manpower issues I'm afraid. We simply didn't have enough instructors to teach the students and fly the display, one event had to go.......students come first. Sorry to disappoint
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The Falcon mentioned earlier did have a smokes problem (they dont lie in front of the others they only get caught out)
and the hercs where there unfortunately not as static displays bit difficult when 2 are already doing flying displays or para dropping( RAF Falcons display team).
and the hercs where there unfortunately not as static displays bit difficult when 2 are already doing flying displays or para dropping( RAF Falcons display team).
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Well my wife and I enjoyed ourselves! Although the Typhoon was a major diappointment, the Eurostars made up for it. Traffic management into the venue was a joke though. It took longer to get from the M54 roundabout to the field than it did to get to the roundabout from Wigan and this was at 0930!
Did anyone else notice the release of a load of racing pigeons from somewhere around right base during the Army Historic display? That could have been tragic had had it happened during some of the displays as quite a few aircraft took that route.
Did anyone else notice the release of a load of racing pigeons from somewhere around right base during the Army Historic display? That could have been tragic had had it happened during some of the displays as quite a few aircraft took that route.
