Latest Rumours ...
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Latest Rumours ...
So far I've heard these ...
1. Reduction in personnel from current levels to somewhere between 33-38,000
2. Redundancies on offer for aircrew aged 30-38, circa £175k !
3. Falklands - no aircraft
4. 100 Sqn to close, or get Jags. Don't know which is worse!
5. Leeming and Colt to close.
6. Typhoon rumours various - all short of cancellation though.
Anyone got any more? Or can you shed any light on the ones above?
1. Reduction in personnel from current levels to somewhere between 33-38,000
2. Redundancies on offer for aircrew aged 30-38, circa £175k !
3. Falklands - no aircraft
4. 100 Sqn to close, or get Jags. Don't know which is worse!
5. Leeming and Colt to close.
6. Typhoon rumours various - all short of cancellation though.
Anyone got any more? Or can you shed any light on the ones above?
"3. Falklands - no aircraft"
I somehow doubt it. Every time they have threatened or even hinted about withdrawing the VC10 tanker out of MPA, someone with a very important finger in the pie squashes it (the idea, not the pie). Somebody in the whole Falkland setup carries a lot of weight at ministerial level and manages to punch at a weight well above that which the Falklands' deserve!
So all the aircraft withdrawn? No chance!
I somehow doubt it. Every time they have threatened or even hinted about withdrawing the VC10 tanker out of MPA, someone with a very important finger in the pie squashes it (the idea, not the pie). Somebody in the whole Falkland setup carries a lot of weight at ministerial level and manages to punch at a weight well above that which the Falklands' deserve!
So all the aircraft withdrawn? No chance!
I wonder why 100 Sqn would receive Jags when the other favourite rumour is for the entire Jag fleet to be binned? I'd have thought that contractorisation and use of a few of ze very jolie Alpha Jet (peut-etre) to fill the role would have been more likely- unless Jacko's comments about the platform have been taken on board and the Jag fleet is to expand 
Agree with Mr B that removing aircraft from Falklands is likely to be a non-starter.
Have heard again the interesting (and probably false) rumour about Typhoon - that we will get all 232, since we wrote the contract so tightly (to keep the Germans in) that we can't get out, and will instead sell some of the fleet to the Austrians, Greeks and possibly Saudis/Kuwaitis/Omanis (take your pick...) to recoup most of the cash shelled out for them.
Agree with Mr B that removing aircraft from Falklands is likely to be a non-starter.
Have heard again the interesting (and probably false) rumour about Typhoon - that we will get all 232, since we wrote the contract so tightly (to keep the Germans in) that we can't get out, and will instead sell some of the fleet to the Austrians, Greeks and possibly Saudis/Kuwaitis/Omanis (take your pick...) to recoup most of the cash shelled out for them.
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Cuts and stuff
Hm
The problem with trying to sell some of our 232 is that BAe want to sell 232 to the RAF and lots of others to other nations.
If BAe do have a tightly drawn up contract then there may not be any chance of ditching the Typhoon numbers and the plan, according to them, will go as:
RAF buys 232
Austria orders and gets some of the airframes allocated to us
Tranche 2 and 3 are delayed to ensure that export customers get priority.
Possibly
The problem with trying to sell some of our 232 is that BAe want to sell 232 to the RAF and lots of others to other nations.
If BAe do have a tightly drawn up contract then there may not be any chance of ditching the Typhoon numbers and the plan, according to them, will go as:
RAF buys 232
Austria orders and gets some of the airframes allocated to us
Tranche 2 and 3 are delayed to ensure that export customers get priority.
Possibly
For a 137 frontline aircraft, seven squadron Typhoon fleet, plus in use reserves, to last the 25 years they are supposed to, you apparently need 232 aircraft. If we go down to six squadrons you could cut the total by 30 jets, or so (smaller training requirement etc.) but to trim many more, you'd be looking at a substantially smaller force or a shorter life. And our boxheaded chums definitely want all 180 of theirs, and may even exercise an option for a few more, so if we cut back, the penalties and workshare implications won't be nice.
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MrBornugly,
So, you think that a part of Britain that has been invaded within the past 25 years by a neighbour, and is still claimed by that neighbour as being their territory, does not DESERVE a couple of F3's and other support aircraft to protect it from any possible future threat? Right, best we move the whole RAF fleet to your nearest airfield so we can protect just you, as obviously no other Brittish citizen DESERVES our protection
I think those in the Falkland Islands are at more of a direct threat of military attack by a neighbour (however slim that threat may be right now, it still exists) than those of us at home back in dear old Blighty, and deserve our whole-hearted support.
MadMark!!!
Somebody in the whole Falkland setup carries a lot of weight at ministerial level and manages to punch at a weight well above that which the Falklands' deserve!
I think those in the Falkland Islands are at more of a direct threat of military attack by a neighbour (however slim that threat may be right now, it still exists) than those of us at home back in dear old Blighty, and deserve our whole-hearted support.
MadMark!!!
Somebody in the whole Falkland setup carries a lot of weight at ministerial level and manages to punch at a weight well above that which the Falklands' deserve!
Earth calling!! Fought for it once, don't want to repeat that one. Lets face it if you were going to try and grab the FI back, now would be a good time. HMF overstretch, World problems and IS probs at home..
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This goverment does not give a **** about 2000 farmers on a heap of rocks. All they care about are the massive oil reserves down there.
Why don't you wake up and smell the coffee. The only reason we invaded iraq was because of the oil down there as well.
Why don't you wake up and smell the coffee. The only reason we invaded iraq was because of the oil down there as well.
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There is always one out there waiting for a bite and I am in just the mood.
RAF to acquire Apache - Me thinks not old boy.
The only way you will have Apache is if we all combine to make the Royal Sky Corps. Then and only then will the old RAF get their mits on it.
Then again before me jumps into the fire anything can happen nowadays.
RAF to acquire Apache - Me thinks not old boy.
The only way you will have Apache is if we all combine to make the Royal Sky Corps. Then and only then will the old RAF get their mits on it.
Then again before me jumps into the fire anything can happen nowadays.
Dear Mr Para I stood in the door...my colonial cousin says there is oil in Kosovo..a huge pipeline..very important he says..and surprise, surprise if the largest camp Uncle Sam has is sat right on top of it!!!!!
Hopefully Col Kurtz isn't feeling too bruised!
TTFN
Hopefully Col Kurtz isn't feeling too bruised!
TTFN
RAF to get the Apache....
...If this is to be the case, how on earth do their Airships arrange to get a 5 star hotel near every Helipad in the battle area.
Think of the cost of training RAF Chopper Pilots to dig holes, fill sandbags and unroll sleeping bags.
Nope, it will never happen.
More chance of the Typhoon being in service on time.
...If this is to be the case, how on earth do their Airships arrange to get a 5 star hotel near every Helipad in the battle area.
Think of the cost of training RAF Chopper Pilots to dig holes, fill sandbags and unroll sleeping bags.
Nope, it will never happen.
More chance of the Typhoon being in service on time.
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Eurothingy
Rumour in the HAS'es is that the Eurothingy moneypit (aka Typhoon) is having a few snags getting into service. Result more cash for F3's - more support for FI det. Having seen some of the flying they do down there (out of the prying eyes of UK NATS and co) why would they want to give up their 4 week jolly?
Anyone got a firm answer for the ISD for Typhooooooooon?
Anyone got a firm answer for the ISD for Typhooooooooon?
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isitd,
The colonials in Kosovo do indeed have a very long lease on several bits of land, not oil though, there are lots of industrial minerals in the balkans many of which are pretty close to the surface (as the EOD teams found out on the dems. ranges)
Cheers,
10forcash
The colonials in Kosovo do indeed have a very long lease on several bits of land, not oil though, there are lots of industrial minerals in the balkans many of which are pretty close to the surface (as the EOD teams found out on the dems. ranges)
Cheers,
10forcash
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I've heard the Jags for Leeming story from a couple of sources of late - but no details as to who gets them (100Sqn or their present keepers relocating).
Last runour I heard on Leeming was closure 2009 when F3 finally bites the dust.
Last runour I heard on Leeming was closure 2009 when F3 finally bites the dust.
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From Daily Telegraph, Friday 2nd April
http://www.telegraph.co.uk/news/main...ixnewstop.html
Five RAF bases to close in £1bn cuts
By Michael Smith, Defence Correspondent
(Filed: 02/04/2004)
The Ministry of Defence is planning the biggest cuts in Armed Forces' equipment for decades as part of attempts to save more than £1 billion from the defence budget.
Five RAF bases are to go, with the scrapping of all the RAF's 62 ground-attack Jaguars, all its 79 ground-attack GR7 Harriers and all its 39 Puma helicopters.
The Royal Navy will lose the two carriers Illustrious and Invincible, at least two frigates and its 88 Sea King helicopters, and close four naval storage bases.
The Army will have to close a number of camps on the Salisbury Plain training area and axe at least 50 Challenger 2 tanks, 50 Warrior armoured personnel carriers and all 118 of its Gazelle helicopters.
The cuts are so wide-reaching that ministers are planning to hold back the announcement of some until after a general election.
At least three Scottish infantry battalions are in danger of being amalgamated, a move that could spark a widespread defection of Labour voters north of the border to the Nationalists.
But the Government believes the suggestion by Oliver Letwin, shadow chancellor, that the Conservatives would cut the defence budget, now denied by the Tories, makes it impossible for them to challenge any cuts.
The Royal Scots and the Black Watch, two of the most famous Scottish regiments but both with recruiting problems, are most likely to go.
The overall cuts will lead to 2,000 officers being made redundant across all three services as well as a number of senior NCOs. The large-scale disposals come after the Treasury won its battle with the MoD over cash shortages caused by the adoption of a new accounting system, the cost of expensive new programmes and the wars in Afghanistan and Iraq.
Under the new Resource Account Budgeting system it costs government departments more money to keep open large numbers of bases.
Working groups within the MoD were told to find ways to save money from current equipment to protect projects such as the Navy's two new carriers and the RAF's Eurofighter/Typhoon aircraft.
The RAF bases to close include Coltishall in Norfolk, which houses all the RAF's Jaguar ground-attack aircraft, Wittering in Cambridgeshire, home of Joint Force Harrier, and Benson in Oxfordshire.
Military commanders are furious at the long list.
Nicholas Soames, shadow defence secretary, accused the Defence Secretary, Geoff Hoon, of planning "to wreak havoc on the Forces".
1 April 2004: Navy to 'lose two carriers' in cutbacks
31 March 2004: Cost of Iraq war leaves Forces facing cuts
28 March 2004: Ships in danger say Navy chiefs, as Sea Harriers are scrapped
6 January 2004: Warships are first casualty as spending cuts hit Navy
Previous story: Blunkett on the rack as minister quits over immigration 'cover-up'
Next story: Blair go-ahead for compulsory ID cards to beat terrorism
Related reports
Forces get ready to fight cutbacks
External links
Ministry of Defence
Royal Navy
HM Treasury
Black day for the Royal Navy [31 Mar '04] - Conservative Party
http://www.telegraph.co.uk/news/main...ixnewstop.html
Five RAF bases to close in £1bn cuts
By Michael Smith, Defence Correspondent
(Filed: 02/04/2004)
The Ministry of Defence is planning the biggest cuts in Armed Forces' equipment for decades as part of attempts to save more than £1 billion from the defence budget.
Five RAF bases are to go, with the scrapping of all the RAF's 62 ground-attack Jaguars, all its 79 ground-attack GR7 Harriers and all its 39 Puma helicopters.
The Royal Navy will lose the two carriers Illustrious and Invincible, at least two frigates and its 88 Sea King helicopters, and close four naval storage bases.
The Army will have to close a number of camps on the Salisbury Plain training area and axe at least 50 Challenger 2 tanks, 50 Warrior armoured personnel carriers and all 118 of its Gazelle helicopters.
The cuts are so wide-reaching that ministers are planning to hold back the announcement of some until after a general election.
At least three Scottish infantry battalions are in danger of being amalgamated, a move that could spark a widespread defection of Labour voters north of the border to the Nationalists.
But the Government believes the suggestion by Oliver Letwin, shadow chancellor, that the Conservatives would cut the defence budget, now denied by the Tories, makes it impossible for them to challenge any cuts.
The Royal Scots and the Black Watch, two of the most famous Scottish regiments but both with recruiting problems, are most likely to go.
The overall cuts will lead to 2,000 officers being made redundant across all three services as well as a number of senior NCOs. The large-scale disposals come after the Treasury won its battle with the MoD over cash shortages caused by the adoption of a new accounting system, the cost of expensive new programmes and the wars in Afghanistan and Iraq.
Under the new Resource Account Budgeting system it costs government departments more money to keep open large numbers of bases.
Working groups within the MoD were told to find ways to save money from current equipment to protect projects such as the Navy's two new carriers and the RAF's Eurofighter/Typhoon aircraft.
The RAF bases to close include Coltishall in Norfolk, which houses all the RAF's Jaguar ground-attack aircraft, Wittering in Cambridgeshire, home of Joint Force Harrier, and Benson in Oxfordshire.
Military commanders are furious at the long list.
Nicholas Soames, shadow defence secretary, accused the Defence Secretary, Geoff Hoon, of planning "to wreak havoc on the Forces".
1 April 2004: Navy to 'lose two carriers' in cutbacks
31 March 2004: Cost of Iraq war leaves Forces facing cuts
28 March 2004: Ships in danger say Navy chiefs, as Sea Harriers are scrapped
6 January 2004: Warships are first casualty as spending cuts hit Navy
Previous story: Blunkett on the rack as minister quits over immigration 'cover-up'
Next story: Blair go-ahead for compulsory ID cards to beat terrorism
Related reports
Forces get ready to fight cutbacks
External links
Ministry of Defence
Royal Navy
HM Treasury
Black day for the Royal Navy [31 Mar '04] - Conservative Party