Can someone explain what went wrong here please?
Thread Starter
Join Date: Jul 2004
Location: Devon, England
Posts: 816
Likes: 0
Received 0 Likes
on
0 Posts
Can someone explain what went wrong here please?
YouTube - SH-60 Near Crash
SH-60 apparently with SEAL's onboard comes in and nearly prangs it big time.
Was it due to the fact they may have had more bank than they should have and lost all lift or was it another factor?
Amazing recovery anyway and the rotors must have been inches from touching the ground atleast twice.
SH-60 apparently with SEAL's onboard comes in and nearly prangs it big time.
Was it due to the fact they may have had more bank than they should have and lost all lift or was it another factor?
Amazing recovery anyway and the rotors must have been inches from touching the ground atleast twice.
Join Date: Nov 2006
Location: Oz
Posts: 67
Likes: 0
Received 0 Likes
on
0 Posts
Avoid imitations
Join Date: Nov 2000
Location: Wandering the FIR and cyberspace often at highly unsociable times
Posts: 14,573
Received 419 Likes
on
221 Posts
Insufficient application of power to arrest an increasing rate of descent caused by a steeply banked turn at high all up weight appears to be the only logical answer.
Can't understand why it occurred as the aircraft appeared to have sufficient power immediately after the event.
Can't understand why it occurred as the aircraft appeared to have sufficient power immediately after the event.
Can't understand why it occurred as the aircraft appeared to have sufficient power immediately after the event.
CG
Not everyone is blessed with your God-given skill and aplomb Shy.
(Cheque to the usual?)
Join Date: Dec 2002
Location: Up here, but not for long
Posts: 315
Likes: 0
Received 0 Likes
on
0 Posts
What the two incidents have in common - allegedly - is that they were carrying Special Forces and as one who has worked with "them" before I can vouch how easy it is to get carried away with their enthusiasm or as they would put it "mission focus"
They were so focused one dark night in Germany that they jettisoned my doors instead of opening them
That might be the background to the OP but the real reason of course is:
They were so focused one dark night in Germany that they jettisoned my doors instead of opening them
That might be the background to the OP but the real reason of course is:
the cameras were there!
Insufficient application of power to arrest an increasing rate of descent caused by a steeply banked turn at high all up weight appears to be the only logical answer.
Join Date: Jan 2009
Location: S of 55N
Posts: 360
Likes: 0
Received 0 Likes
on
0 Posts
My guess:
Aggressive approach looking for a late flare to zero-zero.
Visual approach not taking info from rad or bar-alt and confused by low contrast, low feature surface which deceived the pilot into thinking he was higher than he was. Exacerbated by the approach being over lower ground than the LZ.
Sun.
Aggressive approach looking for a late flare to zero-zero.
Visual approach not taking info from rad or bar-alt and confused by low contrast, low feature surface which deceived the pilot into thinking he was higher than he was. Exacerbated by the approach being over lower ground than the LZ.
Sun.
Looks like from the direction the dust blows after the near miss, the wind was blowing away from the camera and the helicopter looked like he was turning into wind but instead turns crosswind with what looks like a "slipping" turn, It looks like a case of Incipient Vortex ring or settling with power which would semi dissipate as the helicopter closed with the ground but the rate of decent has grown too much for the power required.
The Coning angles on the rotor show that there was a huge amount of power but it would have been interesting to see what engine/transmission limits had be well and truly busted by the recovery.
My interpretaion but happy to learn fom any other ideas.
The Coning angles on the rotor show that there was a huge amount of power but it would have been interesting to see what engine/transmission limits had be well and truly busted by the recovery.
My interpretaion but happy to learn fom any other ideas.
Avoid imitations
Join Date: Nov 2000
Location: Wandering the FIR and cyberspace often at highly unsociable times
Posts: 14,573
Received 419 Likes
on
221 Posts
I don't agree that it was VR related.
Also, if you look carefully and stop the video incrementally, the coning angle initially seems quite low but increases markedly just as the aircraft has first "touched" down.
I reckon he was just too late on the collective.
Navy pilots....
Also, if you look carefully and stop the video incrementally, the coning angle initially seems quite low but increases markedly just as the aircraft has first "touched" down.
I reckon he was just too late on the collective.
Navy pilots....
Join Date: Sep 2006
Location: england
Posts: 8
Likes: 0
Received 0 Likes
on
0 Posts
The reason for this near huge crash is a simple POF issue. When using lets say 60 deg angle of bank we now have total reaction tilted over in this case to the right. Due to this total reaction we have a total rotor thrust horizontal and a reduced total rotor thrust vertical, which is key. To maintain height he would need to increase that TRT vertical by about twice as much. 60 deg AOB has the effect of increasing the AUM by 100%. This bloke clearly did not know this and if he was heavy or high he would not have enough power to maintain height. Sorry if this bores you but that is the reason.....!!!!!
Join Date: Oct 2010
Location: India
Age: 48
Posts: 74
Likes: 0
Received 0 Likes
on
0 Posts
I think he just lost sight of his priority too close to mother earth- may be he was looking inside OR somewhere else when the descent set in. He was too close to the ground for such a diversion (if there was any). Anyway, he has lived to be more careful next time and given us experience without getting into a tight spot!!
