Fly Navy 100
....No it was not all of them......
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Saw the sight over central London. Brilliant. I heard that they were apparently 15 aircraft short of the planned flypast because of bad weather.
Saw a Puma on the back of a low loader on the M3 on Tuesday afternoon, does that count?
Saw a Puma on the back of a low loader on the M3 on Tuesday afternoon, does that count?
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. Harriers will not take part in the flypast over London because single engine aircraft without the capability to glide in the event of an engine failure are not permitted to fly low over central London. Were they to take part, they would have to fly too high to be part of the display.
However.....How far do you think a
Ram Air Turbine and Auxiliary Power Unit
We really have become a wet, limp wristed, spineless nation even frightened to fart lest it offends someone, or more likely, transgesses Elf 'n safety.
Rant over- but I do miss the days of real flypasts.
A FAA chap I once knew had an engine failure in his single engined jet over central London.
At night.
Somehow he got his Attacker down at some aerodrome nearby. Of course we had more of those back then, as well.
This bolleaux of not allowing the Harrier, admittedly with a glide ratio only marginally better than that of well-thown manhole cover, must stop. Tell the H&S pratts
to do one.
"So, meine Herren, tomorrow ve vill attack ze London docks at low level. It is strengsten verboten for ze Tommies to fly das Spitfeuer over Central London if to glide clear they cannot......."
Fortunately they didn't seem to worry about such things back then - as Sep 15th 1940 was to prove.
At night.
Somehow he got his Attacker down at some aerodrome nearby. Of course we had more of those back then, as well.
This bolleaux of not allowing the Harrier, admittedly with a glide ratio only marginally better than that of well-thown manhole cover, must stop. Tell the H&S pratts
to do one."So, meine Herren, tomorrow ve vill attack ze London docks at low level. It is strengsten verboten for ze Tommies to fly das Spitfeuer over Central London if to glide clear they cannot......."
Fortunately they didn't seem to worry about such things back then - as Sep 15th 1940 was to prove.
Last edited by BEagle; 9th May 2009 at 11:08.
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I love the phrase " that wasn't a flypast, it was a role demonstration " !
The next part of the demo' presumably being the Illustrious sinking in the Thames, having been clobbered with no fighters on CAP...
Even GR9's would have been a token effort, and as said before, exactly how much further will a Hawk glide ?
Harriers, even the P1127 prototype, have been dead-sticked to safety, Hugh Merewether did it twice ( Tangmere & Thorney ) and Test Pilots such as John Farley logged HOURS with engine out deliberately - from altitude of course.
It seems a vintage single engine Spitfire ( or a group of them & Hurricanes, I photographed it ) can happily fly along the Mall & over Buck House, while a modern professionally maintained Harrier ist verboten...
Another type noticable by its' absence was the Swordfish - don't tell me that won't glide, or was someone worried because it also has a Pegasus engine ?! ( OK I admit it's been windy lately, but both aircraft are worth a hell of a lot more of a mention than helicopters ).
Basil Fawlty, your country needs you !
The next part of the demo' presumably being the Illustrious sinking in the Thames, having been clobbered with no fighters on CAP...
Even GR9's would have been a token effort, and as said before, exactly how much further will a Hawk glide ?
Harriers, even the P1127 prototype, have been dead-sticked to safety, Hugh Merewether did it twice ( Tangmere & Thorney ) and Test Pilots such as John Farley logged HOURS with engine out deliberately - from altitude of course.
It seems a vintage single engine Spitfire ( or a group of them & Hurricanes, I photographed it ) can happily fly along the Mall & over Buck House, while a modern professionally maintained Harrier ist verboten...
Another type noticable by its' absence was the Swordfish - don't tell me that won't glide, or was someone worried because it also has a Pegasus engine ?! ( OK I admit it's been windy lately, but both aircraft are worth a hell of a lot more of a mention than helicopters ).
Basil Fawlty, your country needs you !
Last edited by Double Zero; 9th May 2009 at 11:26.
True, but Mr Farley wasn't in the habit off switching off Mr Pegasus at 1000' over central London.........
If a Harrier was to lose thrust over the City it would crash into a very populated area. Thankfully, we haven't lost an engine in.............about a year?
If a Harrier was to lose thrust over the City it would crash into a very populated area. Thankfully, we haven't lost an engine in.............about a year?
Last edited by LateArmLive; 10th May 2009 at 00:09.
I believe it is ACAS that make the rules? The Harrier can still overfly London, but it would have to be at a greater height. No Ram Air Turbine in a Harrier GR.7/9, etc. (The early Harrier had a RAT as did the Sea Harrier FRS.1). Hawk has better glide ratio and the back up of the RAT. It meets the requirements for ACAS. Something you would have to bring up with them.
It was debated during the 2007 25th Falklands Anniversary.
See John Farley's post at #91 on Harrier/P.1127.
http://www.pprune.org/military-aircr...niversary.html
It is a debate that crops up time and time again in relation to London flypasts. Can anyone provide a definitive answer?
TJ
It was debated during the 2007 25th Falklands Anniversary.
See John Farley's post at #91 on Harrier/P.1127.
http://www.pprune.org/military-aircr...niversary.html
It is a debate that crops up time and time again in relation to London flypasts. Can anyone provide a definitive answer?
TJ
The RAT would make precious little difference to whether or not the GR9 could fly "safely" over London. A windmilling Pegasus will give you essentially the same PFCU input that a RAT would. More of an issue would be the massive drag leading to a terminal downwards vector. It's really the Harrier's lack of glide performance that would see it off over London.
I performed a full SHAR display in the mid-eighties alongside ARK whilst she was tied up at the same bouy with a base ht of 100ft (including a mini-cct over the Isle of Dogs!)
Then headed for Biggin for gas to find it out in donner and blitzen. Diverted to Southend and landed on fumes but no-one died!
BTW the RAT was removed from the SHAR because the only HYD 1 failures we ever suffered were caused by leaks in the ---- RAT! We carried a spare outrigger wheel there instead!
Then headed for Biggin for gas to find it out in donner and blitzen. Diverted to Southend and landed on fumes but no-one died!
BTW the RAT was removed from the SHAR because the only HYD 1 failures we ever suffered were caused by leaks in the ---- RAT! We carried a spare outrigger wheel there instead!
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Fly Navy 100 Celebrations
All,
Having been part of the team that helped to coordinate the celebrations in London I would just like to say a huge thank you to everyone who turned out to watch the BALBO flypast on Thurs, attended the St Paul's service on Friday and the many people who visited the Greenwich Foundation site over the weekend. Whilst the weather was not exactly perfect, I think we captured the spirit of the event and those who attended the service in St Paul's all commented favourably - particularly on Kristin Scott-Thomas' reading.
Anyone in the vicinity of LUST on Thursday night would have witnessed the spectacular fireworks, a culmination of the dinner on board LUST that night. A huge thanks to everyone involved - especially from LUST ship's company.
More events planned for the rest of the year - display season included - but main one will be the visit to Liverpool of HMS ILLUSTRIOUS from 22-28 October which will include Ship Open To Visitors.
I gather from someone who attended that the BALBO flypast was also, and utterly by coincidence, timed perfectly with all the light blue exiting the Air Power Conference................
Having been part of the team that helped to coordinate the celebrations in London I would just like to say a huge thank you to everyone who turned out to watch the BALBO flypast on Thurs, attended the St Paul's service on Friday and the many people who visited the Greenwich Foundation site over the weekend. Whilst the weather was not exactly perfect, I think we captured the spirit of the event and those who attended the service in St Paul's all commented favourably - particularly on Kristin Scott-Thomas' reading.
Anyone in the vicinity of LUST on Thursday night would have witnessed the spectacular fireworks, a culmination of the dinner on board LUST that night. A huge thanks to everyone involved - especially from LUST ship's company.
More events planned for the rest of the year - display season included - but main one will be the visit to Liverpool of HMS ILLUSTRIOUS from 22-28 October which will include Ship Open To Visitors.
I gather from someone who attended that the BALBO flypast was also, and utterly by coincidence, timed perfectly with all the light blue exiting the Air Power Conference................
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Re thread on swordfish question !!they had one on theThe 50 YR FLYPAST Fairey Swordfish (pilot, Rear Admiral P. D. Gick; observer, Rear Admiral H. R.Janvrin; telegraphist/air gunner, Lt Cdr C. Topliss).
Wasps of 829 Sqn (Lt Cdr K. Mitchell) and 771 Sqn (Lt Cdr J. R. J. Rutherford).
12 Wessexes of 819 Sqn (Lt Cdr P. J. Lynn), 706 Sqn (Lt Cdr J. E. Kelly), 737 Sqn
(Lt Cdr R. Leonard) and 829 Sqn.
Gannets of 849 Sqn (Lt Cdr W. H. Barnard) and 831 Sqn (Lt Cdr J. G. Grindle).
12 Hunters of 738 Sqn (Lt Cdr J. W. Beard) and 759 Sqn (LtCdrA. H. Milnes).
12 Scimitars of 803 Sqn (Lt Cdr P. G. Newman) and 736 Sqn (Lt Cdr J. Worth).
12 Sea Vixens of 899 Sqn (Cdr D. C. Matthews), 890 Sqn (Lt Cdr R. G. M.Campbell)
and 766 Sqn (Lt Cdr G. P. Carne).
12 Buccaneers of 800 Sqn (Lt Cdr J. C. Mather) and 809 Sqn (Lt Cdr J. F. H. C. De Winton
Last edited by david parry; 16th May 2009 at 08:14.
