Sqn Ldr (Keith??) Hanscombe

[madcat11]

Hi,

I am trying to contact the man himself (a Victor pilot), a relative or friend who returned some uniform items to RAF Marham recently.

Please contact via PM.

Regards,

Madcat

[NRU74]

Madcat
Sorry to inform you that Keith [Neddy] Handscomb died on, I think, 1/2/09 - there was an announcement in the Telegraph on 6/2/09
Unfortunately I was unable to go to his funeral [having flown on his crew at Marham for quite a long period]
RIP Ned

[The Oberon]

Wasn't Neddy the only one to eject from a Victor twice. Once from a B2R climbing out from Wittering and also a Marham K2 off the North East coast ??

[Treble one]

I believe the ejection from the K2 was mentioned in 'Vulcan 607' ( a Buccaneer hit the aircraft's tail during AAR IIRC)?

[VictorPilot]

Neddy Handscombe

I do not recall any B2R ejections from Wittering. Are you mixing it up with a B2 when the co-pilot ejected and the rest of the crew were lost?

[VictorPilot]

K2 Ejection

Further thought. I have a suspicion that it was a 57 Sqn Victor K1 or K1a involved. The Bucc got in the wing vortex and got thrown over the top of the Victor taking the tail off. Information changes, but at the time it was thought the aircraft bunted so hard the negative G stopped both the pilot and co-pilot ejecting using the seat pan handles. The cockpit broke up and fired one ejection seat in the process. I did ask Neddy some years later about the actual sequence of events in the cockpit, but perhaps not surprisingly, he had no recollection.

[windriver]

There is an account of the accident and subsequent rescue in the book "Drama In The Air" by John Beattie.

[Art Field]

I was a member of the Board that investigated Neddy's accident and it was as Victor Pilot says. We thought that the top latch of his bang seat fractured under the severe strain of negative 'g' as the aircraft bunted after the tailplane came off. Neddy did wonder if he might just have got one finger on the bottom handle as he had a bruised finger but he was pretty bruised all over. As a result of that accident the bottom handle on the pilots seats was changed from a solid handle to a flexible loop.

[Top West 50]

I went to the funeral in Kings Lynn. It was very well attended and a very decent send-off for a very nice chap.

[VictorPilot]

KH Survival

Hi, This is Bob Prothero. Very interested to hear you were on the BOI of the AAR accident. I had left Marham and was at Offutt AFB when the accident occured. I had known Neddy since the early 60s, and was pretty shocked to hear from Alaister Sutherland, at Offutt on a Ranger shortly after, what had happened. I can read the basics, but Alaister said much more about the Buccs initially denying their involvement, and then it turned out they were blatently disregarding the GASOs in relation to the AAR conversion of Bucc pilots, and the supervisory aspects of the flight. Any comment? Neddy was unconsious in the water I believe, and very lucky to be picked up .... SARBE activated? Be good to hear from you....

[Art Field]

VictorPilot, Check your private mail.

[Tankertrashnav]

Neddy was unconsious in the water I believe, and very lucky to be picked up .... SARBE activated?

Bob, I was at Marham at the time and I think I am right in saying that Neddy was initially picked out of the water by a German fishing boat, then transferred to an SAR helicopter. The story went that although he was wearing an immersion suit, as required, he wasnt wearing a lot underneath and when first checked by the medics his body temperature was so low that it was amazing he was still alive. I know that for a while at least we were all a bit happier to sweat it out in immersion suits with those uncomfortable bunny suits underneath, but human nature being what it is, it probably didnt last.

[ToffeeMark]

Really saddened to read about the circumstances of this accident, but also very interested in learning more about it. My dad was ground crew at Marham at the time, I was talking to him this week about which aircraft he had worked on, Asked him if he'd been on buccaneers and he said no, don't like them and he cited this accident. It was very difficult to find info on it, I'll look into the book, and have a chat with my dad again.

Are the any other sources? the most interesting read has been from this thread. I did also find this detail: (5 crew, 4 died)

24 Mar 75
XH618
Victor
KlA
57 Sqn
off Sunderland
4

Mid air collision with Buccaneer XV156. The Victor was taking part in simulated refuelling when the Buccaneer struck the tailplane rendering the Victor immediately uncontrollable. It bunted over and the 'g' forces made it impossible for the crew to escape; the captain, Flight Lieutenant Keith Handscomb managed to reach the ejection handle with the fingers of one hand and although injured was subsequently rescued by a merchant ship. The aircraft exploded as it reached the cloud tops. The Buccaneer was undamaged and returned to base.

Flight Lieutenant David Hallam CROWTHER
Flight Lieutenant Peter Joseph Leo SLATTER
Flying Officer Terence Patrick EVANS
Flying Officer John Arthur PRICE

[foldingwings]

My recall, as a Bucc man on 12 Sqn then, was that XV156 was being operated by our sister squadron (208) at Honington at the time. Having recently returned to service as a Buccaneer outfit, 208 were in the midst of a mass crew AAR convex but had decided to conduct AAR training with squadron crews who had been qualified previously rather than use current expertise from 12 Sqn or 809 Sqn who were both based with them at Honington. This accident put an immediate stop to that and 208 were only allowed by HQ1Gp to continue their convex sorties with the support of 12 Squadron AAR instructors. It was the only time in my 13 years on Buccs that I flew with 208 pilots in 208 aircraft!

It was a very sad day and one that should never have happened had the then OC 208 not been too proud to ask for support!

Foldie

[papa_sierra]

I was a Crew Chief on 55 Squadron at the time. The Copilot and Nav, both Flying Officers, were from 55 and were on the 57 Squadron crew as I believe they were short on hours for the month and elected to fly with 57.
A very sad day.

[ToffeeMark]

My Dad had a happy RAF career from what I remember but I'd never really spoke about this before, when this came up in conversation the other night it seemed that he was angry/frustrated/sad felt the loss of the crew quite badly at the time, and never forgot it.

As I said, I'm going to read up on it. Found this more detail this evening;

on 24th March 1975. 57 Sqn Victor K2 XH618 had a rendezvous point over the North Sea, about 100 miles north east of Newcastle. The recipients were Honington-based Buccaneer S2s. The first aircraft made contact with the port side drogue and in two minutes withdrew, having been replenished,

For the pilot of the second aircraft, it was his first in-flight refuelling so he was instructed to make two 'dry' contacts. He made his first contact successfully and withdrew to allow the Victor to execute a 180 degree turn. Following the tanker round, the Buccaneer pilot approached for his second dry contact but, on appreciating that his speed was too fast, drew back just as he was level with the drogue which, on striking his probe,caused the hose to snake round and the drogue to hit the Victor. The drogue richocheted off the tanker's fuselage, struck the Buccaneer's canopy and wrapped itself around the fuselage.

The pilot made a quick nose-down manouevre but his starboard wing hit the Victor's port elevator causing the Victor pilot to lose control; this placed too great a load on the tail and it broke off. The captain ordered his crew to bail out but just as he made his ejection the Victor exploded. He was found in his dinghy by the German freighter Hoheburg and recovered to fly again. The rest of the tanker crew perished, the Buccaneer survived to make landfall

[Tankertrashnav]

Following the tanker round, the Buccaneer pilot approached for his second dry contact but, on appreciating that his speed was too fast, drew back just as he was level with the drogue which, on striking his probe,caused the hose to snake round and the drogue to hit the Victor. The drogue richocheted off the tanker's fuselage, struck the Buccaneer's canopy and wrapped itself around the fuselage.

Do you have a source for that, Toffeemark? I was a K1 nav radar/refuelling operator for neary 6 years and cant imagine how the drogue could strike the Victor's fuselage. It's not the way I heard the sequence of events described at the time, but as I dont have chapter and verse I better not give the version I heard as it may not be accurate. Anyone know what the BOI version was?

[ToffeeMark]

This is where I took the source from: (Sorry I didn't link it in the original post)

Air To Air Refueling - ARC Air Discussion Forums&

Interestingly I recieved from Amazon today "Drama In The Air" by John Beattie as recommended earlier in the thread, this quotes the drone swinging towards the Victor fuselage and then swinging back and striking the buccaneer cockpit.

So the book doesn't actually mention it striking the Victor, which I agree sounds a little strange.

When my dad mentioned it, he'd said he lost a crew, I read about it on the net, I learned of one ejection, no names/ or number of fatalities I've gradually built a more detailed account, but you've probably got a more accurate first/second hand account than I'll ever get.

Had a very brief chat with my dad this evening, established that he was 55 sqdn

[StevePC]

Hello - my Dad (Flt Lt David Hallam Crowther) was the Navigator on Victor XH618 that day and along with 4 other members sadly perished. I did not know very much about the circumstances of the accident until I found a brief explanation on the Ejection History site some years ago. I noted with great interest that a couple of books give accounts of the day and have just ordered copies. We first heard about it when it was reported that evening on the BBC TV news, an hour or so later we received telephone call from the RAF and they later sent 2 officers to our home although they admitted that it was too soon to know all the details. Aside from the memorial service held at RAF Marham, the RAF did not provide any further explanation or report of what happened, so I have been trying to gather more information and in doing so found this thread. I would appreciate it if any contributors could furnish me with more details or point me towards a contact within the RAF who perhaps could. Many thanks

[Tankertrashnav]

Steve - check your Private Messages. I have no reliable information other than what I have already posted on this thread, but I may be able to put you in touch with one of the members of the Board of Inquiry.