More (non nuke) Knicker-knotting Kipper Kvestions (Nimrod and ASMs, LGBs, etc.)

[Jackonicko]

As a young schoolboy, I went to a then-unparalleled open day at Boscombe Down, where there were a host of never-to-be-forgotten rarities including a Nimrd prototype which was unusual in having Martel missiles (can’t remember if they were TV or radar, and probably couldn’t have told the difference at the time anyway) underwing. Subsequently, I’ve read that the same aircraft was also used for SS11 and AS12 trials.

Why? Was an AS missile part of the original requirement? The Shack never had such a weapon, did it?

If so, what went wrong? Why did the Nimrod MR.Mk 1 not get such a weapon until the Falklands, when they got Harpoon?

I seem to remember reports that the original, Falklands AGM-84 Harpoon used the underwing pylons, whereas today the Harpoon is carried in the bomb bay. Why?

I have a Falklands era PR photo of a Nimrod with all its weapons options laid out, including a Paveway II. What happened there, then?

[Mikehegland]

Uh

Are you sure? SS11 & AS12 trials on a Nimrod...???

Are you sure mate? why would they do that?

HOW would they do that?

[Jackonicko]

I saw the Martel with my own eyes. I've only read about SS11 and AS12

[hairyeng]

In answer to your question reference AS 11 and AS 12 missile's being fitted to the Nimrod Mk 1. I can assure they were. I joined the fleet in 1973 as a Flight Engineer and I was posted to 42 Sqn where I flew several sorties with the AS 11/12 fitted to the ac. The AS 11 was the training round if I remember rightly and the AS 12 the warshot round. They were mounted under the wings on the hard points that have been subsequently used for Sidewinder during the Falklands War and what are now used for the BOZ pods. The missile was wire guided and controlled by the co-pilot using a small joy stick mounted on the shelf next to his right hand. You can still see the position of where the stick was fitted for the hole is covered by a circular blanking plate. The missiles were designed for use against fast patrol boats and the idea was that the Mighty Hunter would front up and release these things from about 1.5 miles. A bit dodgy if you ask me. At night a tactic was developed involving the dropping of a 5 inch recce flare from the bombay whilst the ac was a between 3 and 5000ft and as the flare descended on its parachute we would ' swoop down' and release the missile. I was on board when we tried to fire one on Aberporth Range and the missile left the carrier all right but unfortunately the co pilot could not get the elevator on the missile to move away from the fully up position and it flew staight up over the ac and impacted in the sea behind us. The wire was wrapped over the wing. The Captain wanted to try again but the co-pilot and myself persuaded him otherwise. Great persuaders fire axes.

As to your question about Martel, it was never fitted to the ac. I am not sure why but it was going to be controlled from the AEO's position and that seat was known as Martel for many years. A last bit of history- During the Falklands War it was decided to see if the Nimrod could drop 1000lb bombs and a trial was conducted on a range somewhere up in Scotland, Garvie Island I think. It never came to much but I can still remeber the sight that was fitted to the coaming in front of the co-pilot which consisted of a perspex sheet covered with graduated lines which the Co was supposed to use for ranging information. Not very effective in terms of accuracy I feel.

I am still kicking around the Nimrod fleet as the longest serving aviator and presently I am enjoying the sun and sand of The Gulf.

[Yellow Sun]

To add to hairyeng's remarks (I must know you hairyeng!), during the Falklands the MR2 carried a retard 1000lb and cluster bombs (BL755?). A test was carried out to assess the suitability of the aircraft to carry the Paveway LGB (one Sunday afternnoon at Lossie IIRC) but I don't know if one was ever actually carried. The Harpoons had to be carried internally because of directional control considerations and as you know the existing hardpoints were utilised for the AIM 9 fit. Harpoon was never carried on the wing pylons.

They were interesting times.

YS

[olddog]

ss11/As12

I was one of the co pilots trained to fire SS11(Training) and AS12(Warshot) from the Mighty Hunter in the 70s. "Training" consisted of sitting in a chair with a missile joy stick fixed to the arm and tracing patterns on the class room wall about 20 feet away with a light representing the missile tail flare!!

The missile was intended as a means of attacking "lightly defended targets". There was no sighting system, the approvrd technique was to fly the missile down to the surface and then surface skim it to the target. As there was no accurate means of judging the missiles height most of the practice rounds I saw on the range wound up hitting the Ogwash short of the target or passing harmlessly over the top!!

Incidently, I challenge Hairy Eng for the title of longest seving aviator in maritime!! He and I shared the same Shackleton OCU a "few" years ago but I didn't defect to VA for a few years before rejoining!!

[Jackonicko]

Thank you so much, chaps. I had NO idea that any of the three weapons actually made it into squadron service - and none of the books and magazine articles made any mention of more than trials.

It's also cheering to know that despite all the niff-naff, bs and triv that has driven an understandable exodus there are still 'old and bold' blokes like Hairyeng and Old Dog and YS at the coal face, and it feels like a bit of a privilege to have them contributing to this thread.

YS: But Harpoon was originally intended to be carried underwing?

[Piggies]

There is some film of a Nimrod dropping retarded 1000lb bombs in sticks. Unfortunately, nobody seemed to have heard of stores capture, so that the rear (of two IIRC) tumbled away from the aircraft

[Jackonicko]

Any clue as to when SS11/AS12 was withdrawn?