WHAT???
 

Chevvy SS first of all how can you even compare QR to EK the reason you never see anything bad about EK on the net is because their management know how valuable good crew are.God where to start,have you even looked at the first post on this topic????Practically every main managewr inQR has left and believe me it is all down to AAB.Yeah a while back QR was rubbish and then the Qataries say how good EK was doing and decided to put some money into it,and since AAb has taken over he has not once released a single annual report on costs recruitment sales,expenses,ratios etc???Why is this???QR is short staffed because training takes so long??are you crazy??QR cabin crew dept takes everybody who applies,all you need is English,you don't even have to swim??I know dozens of crew in QR who CAN'T swim????????The staff turnover in QR is huge and really if somebody gave me millions of dollars to buy stuff it wouldn't be a problem,I would also have lots of shiny new planes on the ramp and petrified crew working on them,smile at your peril cabin crew.Lets be realistic here QR isn't doing much to EK and really it never will,two completly different management styles,nothing origional ever passes AAB.On and on etc etc.

Kenoco,

I know all this ! The only thing I wanted to say is:

EK is not only sunshine, a lot of people are complaining there as well!

EK staff has not the pathetic tendency to nag about how bad they are being treated on an internet forum!

AAB does not have to release a report because he has carte blanche untill 2007! What is the big deal about that? As a mather of facts he did release a reoprt stating that the losses where less than forseen in the businessplan!

At QR they tend to do some serious overtraining. You sure know that there are some CSDs here with 27 years of experience , hired for 6 months and the last four months the only thing they did was training!!!!

Same thing for the tech crews. QR hires only type rated pilots but they all have to do a full training again of 2 months!!!

QRs goal is not to go into competion with EK. I have never said that......

AAB replacement is already in training!

thanks
 

Thanks for the news CSS,take care.

Hey QR Guys/Girls

So whats the news that 'The Bouncer from Mothercare' (AAB) is going to sack any QR staff for writing on PPRUNE. Heard that their was a big meeting and all pilots in DOH were called and warned about writing on here???

Heard from very reliable source that he is furious about this QR so called Bashing.

thanks for any info / comments

Sad but True
 

Hi Gulf Crew what u herd is totally true and not only have the flight crew been warned,sorry I mean "advised" but also there was a meeting recently for Cabin Seniors + CSD's and they were given the same warning oops I mean "advice",AAB is not really enjoying this internet reveloution cause its telling the truth a bit too much,the Internet is great but AAB does not like it at all.Bye bye AAB.Hopefully the future will be bright.

Hi All,

PLEASE READ ALL BEFORE REPLYING

Ive been reading through all the posts and there are obviouly those of you that enjoy QR and those of you who carry a big grudge.

I think Chevy SS wrote a very good bit a few posts back. It's about time everybody looks at the bright side of things about the airline. Work as a team, get things done and try to enjoy working for the airline. There are a lot worse jobs out there than working for QR and those crews work with what they have and go into work with a smile on their face.

I understand that a lot of you guys may have had some bad experiences at the airline. But by talking about them all the time and thinking "my god the conditions we work in are so crap" isnt going to get anyone anywhere. Working as a team and sticking it out through thick and thin will get you through and things WILL change.

EK is a very prestigeous airline to work for. You hear the odd story about things not going all rosy over there, but in most cases everything is good. They have a sound managment team, great staff who work together and who walk into their positions smiling. However, it was not always like that. EK was a new airline once too. They had a small number of aircraft, crew and facilities and everyone had to work their butts off to get the airline to where it is now. Dubai was not anywhere near where it is now aswell. It was the type of place where very ambitious staff went to have a go at something new. Life was very very different to what it is now, with nowhere near the same "familiar" amenities for expats to relate to their home countries. Life was tough for these staff members. Many of them didnt last. They just couldnt handle the change. However, many stayed and put in 100% with what they had to bring the airline to what it is today.

The QR story is very similar. Although the airline is growing rapidly, there is still a very long way to go. I first moved to Dubai back in 94. Dubai was a very different place. I last visited Doha one year ago and I saw Dubai as it was in '94. I saw an airline similar to EK in '94. Both the place and the airline are growing rapidly, however it is impossible to compare the QR and EK of 2002 as they are nothing alike.

The most important thing for the staff members at QR to do now to stick together and build the airline. It is YOU guys that will make QR great. There is a high staff turnover at QR because many of the staff dont give the airline a chance. Many of you think you will go to QR and Doha and expect to be working for EK and living in Dubai. Well your won't. You have to stick it out and make the airline great.

AAB doesnt want to lose the staff he has. Contrary to what many of you think, he is considered a good business man, and he knows finding a team that will stick together is the team that will make the airline great. However he is having a tough time at the moment finding the right team to work for him. You guys can be that team. Stick it out, and you will be rewarded. Management doesnt want to look after a team of people who are miserable in working for the company. They would rather find the team who will go through thick and thin with them, keep a smile on their face and WANT to help build the airline.

If you want to work for a great airline, then make it great. Many of the staff who worked for EK all those years ago were working under the same conditions as you are. But they said "hey, lets stick it out" and look at where they are now. They did the math, and knew that things would get better. Many of you QR guys should think along those same lines.

About what Gulf-Crew wrote a couple of posts back. I dont know how true that is, but if it is I can see what AAB is thinking. How can you expect QR to attract the right staff if so many of you think of everything that is negative about the airline and tell all? ALOT of people DO read these forums, especially those looking for jobs. There is an abundance of negative comments on the airline and hardly anything on how GOOD an airline it is to work for. QR needs the right staff to enter the airline with the RIGHT attitude in order for the airline to be great. What is happenning is people are joining the airline with a bad picture in their minds. That does not help when joining a new team. These new team members go about their duties, picking out everything that is negative and feeding off every bad comment that other team members say. What happens? These new staffers become miserable and at the first chance they get they are out of there.

Now turn that around. Write posts about the future of QR. Write posts about what life is like in Doha and the prospects for the City.
- MAKE IT CLEAR THAT DOHA IS NOT DUBAI
- MAKE IT CLEAR THAT QR IS NOT EK
- MAKE IT CLEAR THAT QR IS A NEW AIRLINE

New staffers will then join QR with the right frame of mind. Help these new guys. Let them know that the future is bright. It is YOU, the current staff members that make the first impression of the airline to the newbes. If you guys welcome the new guys with smiles and stick with it, the airline will get the chance to grow and improve. Qatar is new to running an airline. It is an airline owned by the Qatari's and they have a lot to learn, but it is YOU guys that are the main cog to make it great. QR is going nowhere with the current staff turnover. It needs to keep the staff it has and everyone can learn together and keep on the same level. The staff in the highest postions at EK are the guys who stuck it out when they were in the same position as you guys. Put in the hard work, and in a few years you will move up the ladder.

If you leave the airline now, you will regret it. Once you leave, they will not take you back. In 10 years time (probably less), those people who worked with you through the tough times will be enjoying the high life in a fantastic airline in the thriving city of Doha. The only place the country and the airline is going is up, and for all of you who decide to stay, that is where you will be going too.

Now that I have had my little banter, I must explain I am not an employee of QR, but would LOVE to get the chance one day. I am just a young pilot in training who is itching to get the chance to work for a young, thriving airline. For all of you who are currently employed, I am very, very jealous. You have joined an airline in its early years. This is the best place you could be to work on your careers. The prospects for you are enourmous, and please take advantage of this. Many of you have moved from good jobs in other WELL ESTABLISHED airlines. You have got to understand that QR is not. However, how long would it take to get anywhere in you careers at these other airlines. Ten, twelve years? At QR you can move up a hell of a lot faster, but you have to work for it. In a few years time, you will be highly respected by those in charge and you will be greatly rewarded. It just takes time.

I know some of you will disagree with what I have said, but I dont think you really understand the middle east. I have lived in the middle east a looooooooooong time. The guys in charge want things done, and they want them done NOW. Sometimes it takes the staff working for them a while to catch up. But once everything is looking good from the boss' chair, he will be very greatful for your hard work and team effort and then the cushy positions and great rewards start rolling in. Just PLEASE, give it time and stick it out. DONT THROW AWAY THIS CHANCE!

Some of you have the right idea. Chevy SS and I think maha but I cant read the posts that far back LOL. You know you have a great oppertunity here and are willing to do the work for your company. For those of you with other views, please look on the bright side. You are all lucky folks, some of us dont have the same chance to get there when the airline is young. Dont mess up your chance. One day, I hope I can get the chance to join the team and fly your aircraft, however that chance will probably be a few years yet.

Take it easy guys, you do GOOD WORK. Just stick it out. Things will get better.

Cheers

BYB ;)

I could not have said it any better!!


Straight to the point....now it is to the others here to decide wether they accept it or not!
Thanks BYB!!:) :) :)

Good One
 

BYB,superb post,you seem like a really decent person with good intentions,just like I was when I joined QR,and just like the hundreds of other crew who did likewise.QR has bags of potential and excellent staff all round but then,BAM,you meet and HEAR AAB.HE is the one and only reason behind QR's staff turnover prblems.All that seems to be going on is the training dept.,chasing their tails,100 crew join several months later 50 are already gone and if u ask any of why,they all say the same thing.BYB I hope your wish is granted soon so you will meet AAB and then you will understand.All the best,C.

Kenoco,

Im sorry things didnt work out for you at QR. I hope things are better where you are now. What you have to understand is that AAB is not the only leader who is this way. Probably 90% of the Arab business men act in the same way. I am not just talking about the CEOs of airlines, but all CEOs in all industries.

Ill give you an example. I moved to Dubai with my family back in 1994. My Dad was hired as part of the design team to build the Jumeirah Beach hotel and Burj Al Arab. The guy in charge of the whole thing and the guy putting the capital behind the project was Sheik Mohammed Bin Rashid Al Maktoum. He is a very repected leader and business man throughout the world. He is a very likable, and well liked guy who has been a main force behind getting Dubai to what it is today. However, he wanted his project done, he wanted it done right and he wanted it done NOW. He was chasing the heels of the companies, in many ways very angrily, firmly explaining to do whatever it takes to get his project completed on time and correctly. This meant the staff had to work their butts off for the last couple of years of the project. And I mean they REALLY had to work. My Dad was going into work at 6am, working through to 8pm 6 days a week. Most of the time on Fridays he would have to bring work home and spend half the day at his desk. During the summer, he would be lucky to get 2 weeks holiday. All this because Mr. Maktoum wanted his project completed on time. The staff working on the project knew they had to put in the effort or they would be out of there. So they stuck together and got the job done.

That seems like a hell of a lot of work to do, and a lot of people would leave those working positions. A lot of people did. Why did my Dad do it? Because he knew it would have to be done and he knew things would get better for him and the family. For all those that did stay and worked through it, they are sitting in very good jobs in Dubai. They have much larger salaries, bigger homes, nice cars and posessions, get to go on great holidays...etc...etc. All of those guys and girls who worked through it all through the years have become very respected members of their respective industries in Dubai and are offered great positions all of the time.

You look at cities like Dubai and Doha and see their growth. It is phenominal. These ciities still have a lot of catching up to do, as their 'boom' was more delayed than their western counterparts. It is businessmen like AAB that have brought these cities to what they are today, and what they will be. They have rather unconventional ways of doing their business than the western guys, but if you put a more conventional leader from the west in the chairs of the Arabs, the growth of these cities and businesses would be nowhere near where it is today.

AAB and his airline have a lot of catching up to do. He looks 300 miles to his east and sees a well established international carrier. For Qatar to grow as a country, it NEEDS a good and well respected airline. That is what much of the growth of Dubai has been based around and that is what Doha will be too. We are not talking about just building another low cost carrier here, we are talking about building a major national carrier and doing it in a fraction of the time that other majors have done it. British Airways' roots stretch back over 80 years. QRs roots dont even stretch 10. You need someone drastic at the head of the airline, with a very ambitious vision to get things done. It is people like that who have brought the middle east to what it is today.

I know many of you dont find all of this easy, but you just have to stick it out. If you are planning on making a move to the middle east, you have to take time to do A LOT of homework. Those who stay are those who understand what I have said above. For those of you who leave, it was just too much of a change from your home country. You have to understand that the middle east is a very different place, with a very different way of doing things. AAB is still learning. Also, you have to remember it is not just you guys who are under pressure, he is too. The Qatari government wants a great airline in a very short space of time. AAB has been chosen to do this. I dislike some of the things I have heard about some of the conditions you have to work in, especially the cabin crew, but the work has to be done. What you need to do is just go to work and get on with it. Work as a team, stick together and welcome the newbes with open arms. The more staff can stick together and stay at QR, the better off you will all be. You complain than you have to work too much. Well, if so many didnt leave, QR would have more staff to shuffle around.

Help AAB out. Stick with him. I am not defending some of the things he has done, but if you help him, he will help you. If you stick together, it will pay off. Things will get better. Like I said before, if you leave you will regret it. QR is a new airline. If you were working for a new carrier back in the western world you would have to work just as hard, or harder and would not be getting nearly the same return and career prospects. Remember, Qatar Airways is not Emirates, it is Qatar Airways.

Kenoco. I understand what it would be like to work for AAB. I have experienced the similar pressure by other leaders through my family. These leaders are all alike. Yes you have had first hand experience with him, but he seems the same as all the rest. Believe it or not, no matter what you do in the middle east there is always someone bitting at your heels to do a better job and get things done. You have to understand this in order to have a successful career in the middle east. People always seem to paint a very rosy picture of the middle east, saying that everyone is well off. Many are, but what people dont realise that its not handed to you on a plate. You have to work your butt off to get there.

Take it Easy Guys

BYB ;)

BYB- not sure if you're brown-nosing for a job, or just a naive kid.

When you have been out in the world for a while, you might understand what these people are griping about. It is not hard work. It is not having a positive attitude. It is not about gritting your teeth and doing the hard yards.

It is about respect.

Sheikh Mohammed may drive a project, but he respects the people delegated with the task. Storming onto an aircraft and screaming at the CSD demanding to know why the aircraft parked next door is u/s tech is not getting excellent performance from your 'team'. It is unreasonable. Firing people for what they do in their spare time etc. is not 'building the future' or weeding out the bad eggs, is it creating a culture of fear. Managers leaving in droves, not because of the enormity of the task, rather because they are not given the authority or the tools needed to achieve their goals.

Let me make it simple for you BYB. Imagine getting that job you dream about, sitting in the RHS of a shiny new QR jet. All those years of struggle, study and application, now you've made it. Go on, close your eyes. Savour the moment. You like Doha, you've met heaps of great people to work with. You are putting in 110%, working your butt off. Then one day, the boss happens to be on board. You are the non-flying pilot, and on short final ATC order you to go-around, which the Capt. performs perfectly, landing the aircraft without further incident. The cockpit door flies open, and there is the boss, screaming at you about delaying the flight. Before you can even respond, he screams "you are both fired, you have 24 hours to leave the country."

Don't mention it on pprune; some wet-behind-the-ears youngster with rose coloured glasses will tell you to move on, get over it, be positive.


Sorry if I seem harsh, but you just don't seem to get what these people have been through.

Ferris,

before you say something again, please check your facts!

There are a lot of cowboystories around here and only very few of them are true!!

eg: nobody ever told me as a QR pilot not to say things on pprune!!!

Ferris,

Reading back over my posts, yeah, it sounds like Im just being a naive kid. Working for QR is something I may like to do, however I am young and there some areas of aviation I would like to experience before attempting to move onto bigger things.

You sound like you work, or have worked for QR. You have to see this from where Im standing. Im reading these posts and hearing from employees who are currently employed by the airline and who enjoy the job, and from those who have left and have nothing but bad things to say. What it sounds like to me, is that there are people who were not adequately prepared for the change. There are people who leave their homes expecting to waltz in and see everything to be like what it was in their old, western run airline. They dont understand that things run differently in the middle east. So much so, in some cases, that they cant handle it and leave after a short spell.

There are these other folks who understand what they are getting into, adapt to the change and get on with what they are told to do. It just seems that with all the negativity around, it brings these folks who are trying to enjoy their new life down. How can anyone enjoy there time at QR and move up in their careers with everyone b**tching all the time?

Look. I like to keep myself abreast with what is going on back home while I am away. I have read heaps of posts on how bad QR is. I just thought I would put in my 10 cents. I get pi**ed off with some of the comments made. The complaints. There are SO many people out there who would kill for a job at QR. Some who have the job seem to have legitimate complaints about the conditions. It is unfortunate, I know, but that all comes with living in the middle east. There is always going to be a level of uncertainty with your career in the middle east, no matter where or who you work for. Others just seem to feed off and enjoy the complaints about QR. This whole circle starts and gets everyone down, including the newbes wanting to get in. How is that ever going to make a great airline? I just dont get it!

With what you said about AAB. I know that is unacceptable behaiviour from a CEO. I explained in my last posts that I did not like everything he does, and that some things are just plain wrong. But how can you expect him to treat the employees like you want, if you pick on all his bad points and post them to the world? People have said that he is an avid reader of this forum. If he is, then you are not making your boss a happy man. The Arabs have a lot of pride. If they are being made a mockery of, then they will lash out at anyone who could have contributed to this. You guys.

About the big guns in Dubai. Yes, they treat the employees well. When everything is going good. They will treat you with respect if you treat them with respect. In some cases, treating them with respect means doing what they say, when they say it and getting it done by their deadline. It is no hidden fact that in Dubai, those in the big chairs have been known to threaten entire companies with expulsion if things are not done in time. From where Im sitting, it seems like a similar thing is going on at QR.

Yes things need to change at QR, but from here it looks like both the CEO and employees need to have a change in attitude. With all the negativity around the group, its going to cause more and more people to leave, less of the right staffers to join and the airline is not going to go anywhere. The CEO will have less respect for his employees. That includes everyone, including those who enjoy their job, bringing moral down. No one will get to go anywhere in their careers. Everyone suffers.

About my naivete. I like to look on the bright side of things. From my point of view, it seems like everyone needs a morale boost more than anything. Please just take this as some friendly advice. I know Im young, but not quite a kid anymore. I have grown up in the middle east, throughout highschool to an adult. The way of life there is a way of life I know well. Believe me, I know how things work. I have seen how tough its been for people to adapt. You have to remember that you are in their country. What they say goes and sometimes you just have to bite your toung and get on with it. Its a tough place sometimes, and I hope everything picks up for you guys.

Take it easy

BYB ;)

Chevy SS- I have checked my facts. What part of my post was factually incorrect? And just because YOU haven't been told not to post here, doesn't mean others haven't.

BYB- Thanks for your 'advice'. You just don't get it. Respect and humility are different things.

YEP
 

Exactly Ferris its all about respect,you are exactly right,why does QR go to all the trouble and hire western crew and then treat everybody like kids,and then the majority of them leave,what a waste of time and money,my reasons for being here are I have good friends still in Doha who are still being treated like dirt and I really mean DIRT by AAB,and this disgusts me,but for Europeans its much easier for us to leave and get a job back home but sadly for a lot of crew in QR that is not an option cause it would be impossible to earn good money in the EAST,and AAB knows this ohh sooo well.As long as AAB continues to treat my friends,all of them,I'll keep everybody informed of the goings -on in QR,peace to all.

BYB

Great story made me laugh you should be a novelist with what your writing. Yes in some respect I agree QR could be a great airline, I thought that for 3 1/2 years and finally things were still the same yes the airline was expanding but the rules/rumours/fear factor were still the same. And by all expectations it still is.

Have heard from large amounts of friends still in QR that the 'Bouncer from MotherCare' is threating people who write on hear that they will be sacked as he is getting CID to investigate. Chevy you must have been one of the lucky one's not to be called in yet am sure it will happen.

Doha is a great place and QR could be too, no its not EK and never will be even back in the early days EK was nothing like QR sure they had their problems at the start but they were and still are a fantastic airline.

Have fun guys/girls in QR but watch your back the bouncer from mothercare might behind the door'

A300 Man

Thanks for your good wishes. Send me a private email again if you can.

Agree with Gulf Crew: BE CAREFUL!!

Been hearing that AAB was leaving years ago...believe it when I see it. A lot of crew will be relieved!

I might even apply again!

Actually, having read about AAB threatening his staff for writing on here...I would like to challenge him to post on this thread!

I would oh so dearly love to meet the newt again and ask him to explain why he treats his staff so badly?

Crew are terrified until the doors are closed and the aircraft is en route...unless of course he is on board! Then the service becomes a natural disaster because the crew are shaking!

At EK if the CEO was on board it was nothing more than a pleasure to serve him and talk to him.

Why can't AAB take a leaf from his "mentor" and be proud of his crew!

I would also urge ALL QR staff to express their views as normal on Pprune...they can't talk to anyone in Akbar Towers!!!

Reading Big Yellow Bird's posts, it is quite clear he don't know nothing about nothing .... in addition he obviously loves the sound of his own post ... verbose or what?

Message to BYB ... in the real world, young man, there are people running companies who do not have the ability to do so, but who have not been found out yet ... one such person is the aforementioned AAB. It is no good spouting on about about the fact that people should be loyal to QR ... I can assure that the great majority of the people listed at the beginning of this thread did all they possibly could to work as a team for the success of the airline. Most people want the company they work for to be successful and work hard to make it happen. These folks were no exception. However when you work for a CEO who is completely lacking in people skills and does not know how to thank or praise his staff, it is extremely difficult to remain loyal and there is a great temptation to look around for an employer who will appreciate your efforts.

GoldStone, Feris

Thanks for your repies. Believe it or not I appreciate your honesty. It seems to be turning out that I am just a naive kid. I still have a lot to learn about the industry, and I think I have to take more time reading and understanding exactly what is going on, instead of replying to things that I think I know about, but don't.

Looking back over what I wrote, it does look like Im trying to write a motivational book on a subject I obviously don't seem to get. It seems some folks are having a good time at the company, but things have obviously gone on there completely outside my understanding. I was just trying to give folks a bit of a boost to a topic that has been battered to death. But obviously it seems encouragment doesn't seem to do any good if there is nothing to look forward to!

To all you still at QR, I hope things are looking up and you can enjoy the time there. To all you who are struggling or have left due to unfortunate circumstances, I hope things can get better and are looking good from where you are now.

Cheers

BYB ;)

BYB

Nothing wrong in trying to be motivational, but having tried to motivate my crew for five and a half years only to see it taken away by AAB, well can't help being a tad cynical.

The ex QR crew are merely stating facts about actual incidents that happened and as this is supposed to be a thread about QR management I would like to share an amusing ditty with you:

After I left QR, I was sitting quietly at home one morning when I received a call from QR in Doha. I was of coursed surprised, even moreso when it was the group HR manager!

" Em, we have a bit of a problem."

" Oh, what's that?"

" Well, actually, we need your signature!"

At which point I didn't know whether to laugh or cry. It transpired that after getting ALL the relevant signatures on my clearance form...there was a slight hiccup where I was meant to go to the bank and then back to Akbar Mansions and sign the final "clearance." Only nobody told me and off I went back to the UK! After offering to fly back out and sign the thing, it then took about 2 months of correspondance before I was finally "cleared"....

I am led to believe that said manager has left, but he was a tad embarrassed.

He also happened to comment by way of an apology that the "decision" for me to leave "came from above" and they knew nothing about it until a few days before I actually went!

Interesting system they have at QR.

BYB, this is FACT!

I loved it out there and enjoyed my job...but I did not enjoy having my personal life dictated by ET.

I would love to have been a fly on the cabin wall when he was chucked of a BA aircraft at LHR. This is also FACT!

BYB, please listen to your elders and no reading in bed!

Respect for all the QR crew! ( ex and present )

Taba