EK Oz recruiting/basing
 

A fairly well connected and knowledgeable birdy in Oz tells me the current recruiting drive in Australia is actually for Oz based tech crew.

Terms and Conditions that 'make Jetstar look good'.

When you think about what is going on in DXB with accomodation, traffic etc and with daily flights it actually makes sense from EK's perspective to start opening bases and hire locally on lower cost base...i.e no accom, utilities and get yourself to work.

Your thoughts guys?

Won't happen.

7

Won't happen, it makes no sense from EK's POV, as any wages will not get spent in the great Dubai money-go-round

Mate there is no one from EK who is in Oz and well connected....

I am amazed you think it so unlikely...with so many new aeroplanes arriving, daily flights to various Oz ports and seemingly having difficulty attracting 'suitable' applicants to the sandpit I would think employing aircrew on hugely reduced costs compared to DXB based pilots would be a really attractive idea to EK management.

But you guys know better, obviously.

Take away the allowences and you are pretty close to Jet*, I think you are right wrt commuting rosters first then on a senority basis next for any (dream on ) basings

Uplock-

That's AFTER_TAX salary you are quoting.

Roughly, gross income would be around AU$240,000

halas

I have no idea whether there is any truth to this rumour but EK has already shown itself very willing to ignore seniority if it is convenient for them.

EK Basings: New Services Announced Soon
 

Mr. Ed talking about trying to introduce basings in EK. (Yes, I know we've heard it all before.)

Coincides with the commercial boys talking about EK getting 4 services a day approved into three Australian capitals (presumably Melbourne, Sydney, Perth). I'm a little unsure how they are going to operate them, paticularly when HR are saying that pilot applications are down 50%.

Bring it on I say.....
Went to the recruitment/info night earlier on this year and the question of oz basings was asked and was answered by a quite frank "NO"....

HD.

It'll never happen - it makes too much sense.

For those who think it will solve the recruiting problem; the only way it could do that was if they formed a separate company or employed 'based' pilots under a contract not made available to currently employed pilots - because no new hire would get a distant look-in if it was made available to all.

Makes sense...make an OZ base and give them 10% more than J*

Tell him he's dreamin'.

Will never happen as long as TCAS is on top. Did not work in BA so it will not work in Emirates, So he said once.

Actually they worked very well for many years as AS would admit. They just became an (expensive) irrelevance after the introduction of the much more reliable 747-400, which coincided with a calming in the aviation industrial relations scene in Oz. The disruption of the 70s and 80s just stopped and so did the Sydney basings - which were only for 3 months at a time anyway.

To be a worthwhile proposition you would require cabin crew basings too, plus the support infrastructure plus standbys plus...............

Raised with Mr Ed at my resig interview and also my leaving interview.

Categoric NO based on:-
1) Employmnet laws and unions exist in UK UK & Aust.EK will not entertain.2)"Profound" opposition down that "corridor" ie TCAS,AH,AAR.

Long term possibly,mediumterm ummm,short term no.

Heads buried very deep in the sand except Mr Ed who has his head in the clouds.

Cheers QB

Control, control and control. The thing that would be lost if basings happened. EK can't afford to have rogue pilots taking them to Court for 'not so legal' practices when they no longer come under the jurisdiction of the UAE. It's a minefield that won't be crossed for a long, long time. But the rumour of basings might keep those that are thinking of leaving around a bit longer. :E

Sounds like a recruiting tool. It's not as if the bosses aren't aware that this might be a panacea to some of their recruiting probs. The recruiting lads have been giving a 'nudge and a wink' to the DEC fellows who ask when there will be basings. 'It'll happen for sure'. For sure.

Sounds like a recruiting tool, nudge,nudge, wink, wink , no guarantees, but !!!!!

We used to have guys with integrity in recruitment,what happened.

It's almost a pity that the newbies don't realise that there are 1500 guys ahead of them in the queue for the mythical basing.....same as recruitment still promising, fingers crossed, that it's still 3 years to command...............................

I think that even with overseas basings not much would change with resignations...probably because at the end of the day you would still be working for EK.

Do we really think that EK would increase the salary scales for London, Paris, New York, etc, etc to cover the taxation issues, schooling, housing, medical, pension,,,and the list goes on...Ek is a low cost carrier in the cheapest sense imaginable.

I for one think that there is more chance of AAR munching down a bacon sandwich with a nice cold stubby at the next pilots meeting than there is of basings on a reasonable contract. So I for one wont be holding my breath.

iF ek HASNT GOT THE BALLS TO TAKE RISKS BY PUTTING PILOTS IN BASES THEN IT WILL BE THEIR DOWNFALL, Smart airlines like CX are doing it and will suck EK dry if they are not careful.

not likely....
 

That's not true. If you join CX, you would have to be a Second Officer all over again! Therefore CX is not a threat at all.

Not true, at all..
CX are offering DEC on 747 cargo with basings in Europe and expanding them over the next few years to include other bases, possibly OZ. Transfer to the pax fleet after 3 years is the rumour. That will definately hurt EK. 4000 Int heavy command req.:D

Shockwave,you must be mistaken THe chosen few?
Emirates pilots wont apply to be a DEC in another company surely.:eek:
How could they be a DEC in another company when there are F/o's ready for command? How could they be qualified to fly CX ops when there are people who know the cx sop so well, who have had commands before, what about the seniority and all the poor cx guys who were hired as S/O and now have to fly on the right to someone off the street who doesnt know CX or ..... etc etc... Any of this sound familiar to the usual EK flat earth society on these boards.Or the "Only Dubai dodgy arab, gulf specific, licence, holders have the skill levels to fly a 777 from the gulf" Hippocracy at its best.
:ugh:

Well CX are going to offer bases for F/os on Pax fleet , thats better than staying in EK or QR as an f/o on the same money.

I have never had any difficulty with DECs, they are generally only recruited because there is a need for them. That is not to say that pilots wont bitch about it though. Hippocracy doesn't enter in to it. If a company has a need for experienced International Captains(any company) then why is there a problem. As far as CX cargo goes I think they are going to expand considerably over the next 7 years and have identified a shortfall in experience. Like most Asian carriers.
I haven't even applied so don't bitch at me!

One question I have. How does the company expect to crew the proposed Australia -South America schedules .Since the 777 Aus pairings are 7 days + now . It will be interesting to see how this will be done. :confused:

Here is the problem:
They are getting DEC's that DON'T have any international experience,that DON'T even know how an HF work and that for the first 2-3 months will constantly rely on the F/O's experience. :{

I happen to know how a hf works and quite easily show other pilots to be confident in its use on oceanic routes in one lesson.Operating out of the gulf, using a hf, longhaul new sops etc etc are not disciplines exclusive to a dodgy dubai validation .Therefore identifying specific operational trivia over combined experinece is disengenious and belittles the true problem of your management taking the piss out of you, not the DEC. These arguments just highlight the collective chip and demonstrtae a nievete (?) of knowledge concerning the true stae of the industry.

Shockwave , it was the principle of double standards from the anti dec crowd that i was sniping at , not you personnaly

I'm glad you do.
And BTW I have no probs with DEC's but you would admit that the system is at least unfair when you can't justify hiring people with less international experience jumping ahead of the list:ugh:

So what if EK make 15-20 day trips to go to Sth America, if you dont like it you can always leave , like me, best feeling ever,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,

Thankfully most of us are not employed for our spellen...
For those EK pilots who may be deemed to be anti DEC, Iwould hope that they are able to vent their anger at the people in Management that see the need for the program and not at the DECs. Each and every one of us has been trained and given time on the line during training and afterwards to consolidate our skills.(cadets, f/os, capt's, & DECs)
Pointing your finger at a DEC because he has not had the 3 years of route exposure you may have had is childish and unprofessional. You are here to do a job, do it! Work as a team and help the guy out if he needs it, and he will help you when you need it.
The vast majority of EK pilots are going to end up as DECs at some time in their careers, so spend some time thinking about how you might like to be treated in your next company by your work mates.

Sorry for getting off topic and on the soap box guys..
Think I'll go chill now....

Well EK probably figured it takes a shorter time to teach a DEC to be an HF radio operator, than an FO to be a captain.

When I leave EK one day I will also be looking for a DEC job berfore an FO position....wouldnt you?

I can speel its my figres that cannt tipe.:eek:

Don't ever defend DECs and their actions. Yes management is to blame but so are the DECs. No one forced the DECs to take the job or even apply.

So you will not go anywhere as a Captain. So what you are saying is that you will be at EK forever if you are a captain or you will start all over again as an FO if you went somewhere else.:rolleyes:

Not to take their side. Just stiring the pot.

RTC,

I have learned from experience that it's best not to stir the pot because they get angry and then some threaten to ignore you. (Big deal by the way)

Best just to come straight out and tell it how it is. Nothing worse than fence sitters!

You LHR Rain come across like a big whinging kid and the next logical step for you is to call home collect and cry to mummy.

You are absolutely right.....so I will not stir the pot. I am an FO and one day I will be a Captain. But to say I will be here forever is also not true. I might one day like to go elsewhere and I'd like to go as a Captain. We work all our lives to go forward in our careers; from the right seat to the left. It is very hard to start again physcologically and from a pay perspective. So people who say they will never do it are probably the people who will do it first. I do not agree with it but that is how the world runs and one day you will find yourself doing the same thing you said you would never do.

I find it strangely ironic that I am being labeled for something that I might or might not do in the future. I have not done anything wrong or unethical. It is the DECs and the company that have done a disservice to the indusrty. Get it straight boys!

Broakenenglish, I never expected to see that again!
I must have just been dumped on when I wrote it.
However, I wasn't griping at the DEcs , just the way EK had gone about it at that time and how it was going to effect us if things did not change.
Since then (I think)their conditions of employment have changed and ours as well. So I am not quite as bitter and twisted as I was then, thankfully, or I would probably have left by now. (or died)

I still just don't understand, why guys feel the need to get pissed off at DECs in general on a personal/professional basis. If you have a gripe about some one in particular fine.
If you feel that your career is being stuffed up by the company employing DECs then Get pissed at the company, as I was, and pointed out to me by broakenenglish above.:O

LHR rain: just how exactly are DECs to blame? Blame for what?
we can go back a little further and Blame, the idiot in Gulf air who couldn't fly an orbit at night or the F/O who could not take over!
They were to blame for the new requirements/ restrictions on upgrades, and while we're at it lets blame the guys who failed their upgrade transitions, which put a stop to that happening for a long time and now with heavy restrictions to try to prvent the same from happening. Or lets blame the guys who have had accidents and incidents within Ek lately and scared the !!!! out of everyone!
F-ckit lets blame all the guys that are yet to have their accidents as well

LHR, I half way agree....I don't blame the DECs at all, I blame the company. Like I said in one of my posting that we have made flying here a science and a nightmare in getting an upgrade here. There is only so many ways to fly an aircraft, lets not make it a harder than it is and upgrade the many qualified FO's here that are capable and let us not frett over the small stupid things they ask you in the interview. It is funny when you are a captain and having the big picture means something completely different as to when you are an FO trying to get an upgrade and trying to make a good impression on the people that are giving you the upgrade. You aren't a good pilot if you don't consider everything being an FO trying to get to the left seat, but being a captain it shows that you are prioritizing. Is there a solution, yes, upgrade all those that are entitled to it and that have been in the company for 3yrs and know the network. I think we are scared of our own shadow that something is bound to happen. As far as DECs go, nothing against them....but that is just me.