Hey Mr Panama,
Who pays you to talk like this about GF. I am wondering if you really work for GF? Well I would say that there are bad days and bad days. I think you were a bush pilot before GF. Anyway at least you are happy and thanks to you things will improve in GF.
cheers dude.:ok:

Sure, GoldenFalcon, appreciate that not everyone shares my point of view and there is plenty of evidence of that on this Forum that anybody considering a job can quickly find using the "Search" function. After I proof-read my last comments I thought to myself :uhoh: . In fact, I would sleep better knowing they will do that-- hate to have someone solely base their career plans on my thoughts.

I guess I should qualify my answers. Gulf Air is my eighth employer. I have worked for companies in 7 different countries (baseings)-- including one other major pilot-employer in the Middle East, and although I have never been a bush pilot, none of the employers have been legacy carriers (the Air Frances', the American Airlines') either.

I appreciate that a pilot who perhaps was at a now-defunct airline like Sabena finds himself unhappy at GF or any of the other GCC airlines. At my previous airline, which would have been rated a major airline, I watched things go from a happy place, into a rapidly descending spiral into bankruptcy protection, then recovery, while management/labor relationships had turned into one of mistrust and kept getting worse. I enjoyed my time there, what I miss most is the people I worked with who were top-notch, but I am happy to be out of there.

In a conversation with a colleague from Lufthansa a few years ago, we both agreed that the whole industry "isn't what it used to be." So when I listen to a Gulf Air long-termer reminisce about multi-day night stops in places like Athens or other exotic destinations, I am also saddened that it isn't that way anymore-- but it isn't that way anymore at most airlines!

So my happiness with GF comes from assessing my personal situation. I feel I work overall in the best airline environment in the Middle East, and compare it to my personal options worldwide. What I hear from people who know guys who have left GF to go to other GCC carriers is that things are not any better there than here. My options do not include going to British Airways (and I cannot fault the guy for going there) and quite frankly, I am not looking anywhere else.

A few years ago, before I came to Gulf Air, I seriously considered getting out of aviation, going back to university, and dedicating myself to a different career field that would be more stable (and less bitter). I wasn't able to then, and while I still think of doing continuing education based on the benefits of self-improvement, I am glad I stuck with it.

As far as me doing my part to improve things at GF-- be nice to my crew members, have some fun downroute, and enjoy to the fullest my days off.

Rgds,
PJ

yeah P.J. that about sums it up...:ok:

Another honest post from PJ. There will always be one or two who hate to see anyone saying they enjoy their work and Golden Falcon is one. The "If I'm not happy then nobody else can be either" type. These people always shout loudest but have no balls to just leave and go somewhere else. As Ironbutt would say they "Talk the talk but can't walk the walk". All mouth and nonsense.

Nice to see a pragmatic post that isn't negative and bitter.

If joining with a few thousand hours on the 767, whats the chances of getting onto the 330/340. Also, what are the routes like on the 767, is it all Gulf Traveller around Africa and India.

Panama Jack, I think any airline need more guys with attitudes like yours. I recently joined Gulf Air and have met people with good attitudes towards the airline and also a few who do not have much good to say. What I've found is that the ones who complain are generally the ones who have not seen what "bad" really is like. Although I haven't worked for 7 other employers in my aviation career like you have, I have been through a few and can honestly say that what I see at Gulf Air is exceptional to my previous experiences. I am confident that I will be happy on the long term at this airline. I believe that you will find complainers no matter where you go; Cathay, BA, Lufthansa, Virgin, the list can go on...

I'm happy to know there are people like you in the pilot pool with great attitudes.

Cheers :ok:

Thanks for the pat on the back guys.

Mr. Gammon Flaps. The 767's do fly mostly to Pakistan, India, Bangladesh, intra-Gulf and the occasional trip to places like Bangkok and Jakarta. Probably the least-appealing of all the night-stops-- probably a reason why it is considered a "junior airplane" although there are a few guys who are sworn Boeing fanatics who wouldn't want to touch an Airbus.

The days of the Boeing 767 are numbered-- keep your eyes open to the headlines-- Gulf Air has secured the funds for a replacement for these very experienced birds and many of us are holding our breath in anticipation to what the fleet renewal plans will be-- supposedly to be announced sometime in April.

Whether it will be Boeing or Airbus remains to be seen-- plenty of enticing theories, but the airline has mused about a fleet replacement that may well see us being an operator of only two types of widebody airplanes.

So while I think your Boeing 767 will definately be seen as attractive, it will only be a matter of time til you fly something else. Guess we'll find out soon!

panama
 

so it could be more a330 or 340 or b777 and will GF not go the way of the others in the region and get some a380's?

Oye's tu, panama jack, preparate para la pinche airbus....:} ;)

Panama thanks for the great response!
 

Panama,
Thank you much for your very informative perspective. I forwarded my application and hope I get the opportunity to interview. I hope that my time flying CRJs would be considered by the selection team. In addition I do not have any jet command time, is all SIC. For what I've read so far it seems that most of the applicants have some serious heavy time plus I would assume command jet/turbo-prop time experience as well. And as you know the CRJ-900 is only over 90k lbs. Not even close to you 767 or A-320 guys. Any insight in future hiring plans? Should I be optimistic about possibly getting a shot to an interview with 2700TT, 800 jet sic all glass, 1200 C-130 FE time? Again most of my experience does not come close to many of the high time pilots applying. My perspective is that I would never know if I don't at least try. Any insight would be appreciated.

Comfortably numb
 

Hello there,

Being loyal to the company doesn't blind me of GF problems.

Rostering, housing and staff travel are departments corroded to the bone and something must be done about this. If you stay quiet, nothing will ever happen.

I cannot call as "creative", a rostering change of a turnaround from 45 to 10 min to make my line "legal".

Hiring direct entry FOs on the 330 now is a very bad sign to hire direct entry captains again in the future. Panama wrote once that DE FOs are not as bad as DE CMD. Fully agreed, my main concern is seeing the company changing rules in the middle of the game.

I'm still very disappointed with the DE policy, it's slowing our transfers down.
What scares me is that in a couple of years, when our turn for command comes up, they come with DEs again.
I realize the 320 FO group became comfortably numb in this issue.

Cheers,
LNB

LNB if you think there are problems with upgrade in GF just take a look at the EK and QR threads or any other airline for that matter. When you do that come back here and tell us you have it hard in GF. Fact is we are not unique in this problem and unless you have been in the company for at least 6 years you will not even get the smell of command. So relax and do your time and when you have the seniority then bitch and moan, anything before that is a waste of energy. This thread started as a brief for new joiners and has up to now been honest and fair in my opinion, even with regard to rostering/command. Please don't bring it down to the level of so many other threads which are unbalanced and end up confusing people. People like Panama Jack have made a lot of effort to post the definitive GF position for new guys and it deserves to be heard without a lot of personal axe grinding.:)

hi folks,

gf sounds like a good company to work for, i applied half a year ago and keep on updating, but no answer yet. probably because pilots like me,with appr. 4000hrs tt on heavy turboprop as f/o, are not qualified enough.:{

so,am i right or do you know some guys who made it with the same experience as me???

thankful for any answer...

Hi, Wingmaaan!

Listen, don't worry about your flight experience, it looks enough for a position as F/O in GF. There are some pilots that joined the company with no previous experience even in turboprops and some pilots with similar experience that joined straight to the A330. On my humble opinion, this is by far, the best work environment among the carriers on the Middle East. Despite the fact that we have some annoyances here (widely discussed here) this is still a good place to work for.

Gulf Air, a few A's
 

Hello there,

Gulf Air is a good company to work for, good people, and sometimes you bump into Mr. Hogan saying hi to you.
I am happy here.

Having said that, some facts cannot be disputed, like:

- Do not compare GF with EK or QR, the benchmark should be made with BA, LH, AF or ex-SR. When you buy a car, do you compare it with TATA motors?
Emirates was good 5 years ago, and still there is people leaving GF to join EK. Is not the other way around.
Do you see guys leaving EK to join GF? Do you see people leaving the above mentioned european majors to join GF? Apart from some canadians and swiss, the flow is on the other way. The only advantage GF has is the fast track for command, upgrade. Ask some 767 drivers.

Housing:
We have to spend around 30% of the budget in housing, do you think this is normal? You'll find this rates in the top 10 most expensive cities in the world. Definitely not Bahrain. Our contract states to provide adequate housing. Tell me where you can find a flat for the allowances we get? Not to mention if you have a family with children.

School allowances:
It is simply not enough.

Rostering:
For sure it has improved comparing to recent times. However, the rostering techniques and FD limitations are there to squeeze us. After 11 hours, they can send you anywhere, with complete disregard to you bio-cycles. How do you like the CCU block? It's legal alright, but do you think it is safe?

Staff travel:
No comments.

Seniority:
A concept that GF changes in a weekly basis. Points, DoJ, DoFLC, Date of starting as a trainer, you name it.


Regards,
LNB

LNB
 

Spot on mate!:cool:
I love the "no comments" for staff travel:E
fly high!

upgrade to left seat
 

Being a heavy jet captain for a few years, I wonder how long it would take me to get command at GF. Anybody knows the average ?

Well,...it's seems that GF still have no problem to attract some s****r pilot!

to answer the question, command is by seniority these days...no more DEC's or accelerated commands!

thanks
 

thanks ironbutt57, what is your guess for a new joiner about 5 years? do they really respect seniority?
billy 34 kit you shouldn't waste time on the forum if you don't have anything interresant to say .

better ask the folks at the interview time frames for command....not too sure about these things, would hate to steer you in the wrong direction....seniority is a bit more involved and includes both date of hire, and "seat/fleet" aspects...it is a primary factor in command awards...made easier by one crew base again....for now anyway....

LNB
 

Spot on mate some of these boy have no idea just like so many other fos in GF been there well over 10 years clean record guess what sieniority listes are worth NOTHIG:mad:

I know at least one EK pilot who is now training captain with Gulf Air, he likes to drink Murphy's and has flashy bullocks!!!

Turnaround times with a/c change
 

Hello there,

Anybody knows where to find the minimum turnaround times?
There is a table with 45 min (40' for transit), but what about the 01:15 if you have an a/c change. Is it gone on last revision? (revisions :sad: )

Thanks,
LNB

1.15 is only the min turnaround if changing from 330 to 340 or vice versa.

GF Line training
 

Just a small question for the Gf Flyers:

How long does it take for an Ab-Initio Pilot (CPL-IR,FROZEN ATPL) to complete his A320 Simulator Training+ Line training A320?

Your comments would be higly appreciated.
TREK:ok:

Hi, all!

I´ve appiled for a Gulf Air A320 position. Can anybody tell me something about the tests, which are to be done there and how to prepare best for them? Thank You very much!

Gulf Air guys,
I have enjoyed reading your posts and am considering applying. I am currently an American Airlines 767 FO and have pretty much had enough of the US Airline industry roller-coaster ride. I am interested more in stability than $$. Can you guys answer the gut question of how stable you feel at GF? I know every company has its ups and downs, if you read the AA pilots forums you'd think there was about to be a mutiny at any moment.

I have spent a lot of time in Bahrain and am comfortable there. What are the company furnished flats in Juffair like on the inside? I know juffair well and know some flats looks horrible from the outside yet are pretty decent inside.

I see that GF gives 50 days vacation, how do you get that? Do you bid for it in advance or can you request certain times off?

How is the flying/scheduling? I know it sucks everywhere, but do you get a line mixed with reserve or stand-by? How does it work? Does pay increase each year or is and FO with 1 year paid the same as an FO with 10 years?

I appreciate your honest answers and look forward to buying the first round at JJ's one night.

Hercpilot

GF, a few thoughts
 

Hello Hercpilot,
"Can you guys answer the gut question of how stable you feel at GF?"
# I don't believe GF will ever go bankrupt, no matter the gravity of its financial situation. Because:
a) GF gives a lot of jobs to bahrainis, a lot of money goes through the company, the country needs GF.
b) Bahrain needs an airline to cope with its growth, eventhough not growing as UAE or Qatar, Bahrain is expanding economically. I believe GF will need to expand as well to cope with this growth, however, not in the dimension of a global carrier, as EK, EY are trying to do. And will probably achieve.
"What are the company furnished flats in Juffair like on the inside? I know juffair well and know some flats looks horrible from the outside yet are pretty decent inside."
# I agree with you. Maybe Juffair is gonna even look nice in a couple of years. Lack of vision, Juffair could have little channels, some green areas where the kids could go and play.....dreaming. Be ready to spend from 500 to 800 in Juffair.
"I see that GF gives 50 days vacation, how do you get that? Do you bid for it in advance or can you request certain times off?"
# You must bid for your next year leave until october (guess so) from the previous year. Some guys get what they want, some of them don't. Some guys keep getting what they want, all the time and some others, never get the slot that they want. You see, there is no balance in rostering, the decent thing to do is: this year you didn't get, but next year your slot will be granted. Kind of. Despite being short of pilots, they are not cancelling leave slots.
"How is the flying/scheduling? I know it sucks everywhere, but do you get a line mixed with reserve or stand-by? How does it work?"
# If GF would fix its rostering system, half of most peoples problems would disappear. The reasons why we don't have an electronic bidding system are unknown to me.
Our flight duty limitations are very simple:
a) after 11 hours, or previous duty period, the company can (and will) send you anywhere.
b) you don't exceed 55 hours within 7 days
c) within 7 days you need 36h rest, if not, within 10 days, you need 60h rest.
d) there is nothing regarding changes in time zones and night duties. We do night turnarounds with 12 h duty and after minimum rest they can still send you somewhere else. Or even worse, you got a flight right in the morning, after coming from a night flight.
"Does pay increase each year or is and FO with 1 year paid the same as an FO with 10 years?
# It's like socialism. Paiy is the same for everybody! Some say long haul guys get a bit more because of the time away, like a taxi. But you spend more in your nightstops as well, so no big difference. But it's much more civilized operation then on the 320.
# That's the way I see GF, a lot of people do disagree, some guys think that flying for GF is THE job. I respect their opinion, eventhough some of them don't respect mine. It depends how you see things and how your expectations are being fulfilled. A good thing is that you know Bahrain, you're used to the dust, heat and the crazy drivers.
"I appreciate your honest answers and look forward to buying the first round at JJ's one night."
#hey, no sweat, all the best and see you around Bahrain!
LNB

I agree with most of LNB's post. Only thing I would add is regarding the leave bidding system. You go to the bottom of the list on your first year and move up over a 3 year period and then down to the bottom again. It's the same for everyone regardless of senority. This means you have a better chance of getting what you want the closer to the top of the list you are. Plenty of guys get close to what they want in the first year, so just because you are new does not mean you end up with rubbish!

Thanks gents. Its a tough decision. When I got hired 7 years ago I never thought I'd consider leaving AA or the USA but here I am facing that decision. I guess like everything else, its all about perspective.

Cheers
HP

Hercpilot we got a few AA guys here, and they are enjoying it...lots of ups and downs...best thing for housing is to find a place take the contact number to the GF housing chap, and let him haggle with the landlord, GF have more "wasta" than we do as individuals and can usually get the place u like at a better price...yes you will more than likely ahve to subsidize it no free ride in that respect....nor at Emirates, Etihad, Qatar either....Singapore....to name a few....sign of the times...:ok:

Ok, You guys have prompted another set of questions. The pay and benefits show approximately 450 BD per month for Travel allowance. What is the real bottom line? I expect you spend some of that travel allowance. Also as an FO how many days flying? How many times do you go over the 75 hours and make the extra 20BD? This is turning into a budget drill. I am assuming 650BD for a flat. 25 phone. 25 utilities and 150 for a car. Thanks
HP

Travel allowance(per deims) bd1.5 "sign on" to "sign off" at base...these per deim hours will vary but your figures are in the ballpark ...hours...same answer...buy a new suv or something with some modicum of safety? (impact protection)bd 2-300 per month with 20% down...ie: Ford explorer 9000bd purchase price....flat price is ballpark..could go up or down a bit...bit of shopping will put you in an unfurnished villa for the same...fone?? depends on how often you call home..or use the msn chat or whatever...i'd guess 50-75bd.. you will probably be rostered for 20 -22 days per month, and most likely get a day or two callout..(you can say "no" unless you are extended out of base..but get paid none the less) most places we go it is possible to make money on the per deims...months over 75 depends on fleet...but probably more often than not...but dont count on it when crunching the numbers...that's "beer money" definately the most "relaxed" mob in the gulf...

HP your calculations are about right but the breakdown is difficult to give because it depends on the fleet you are assigned to. You can expect to take home around $6000US/mth and it can be more depending on O/T and if you work days off or not. Your 6500BD for accom is a bit high, not neccessary to spend that much, 500BD should cover it. Stay away from Juffair at all costs!!!!

I did the "budayia villa" thing for 11 yrs....nice quiet etc...etc...single status, or married no kids. Juffair works...when I was headed back from Auh to Bah, I swore never Juffair....never say never..I'm here in a 5-star flat contribute 25% and am happy for it...but BE careful.. a trip around to prospective bldgs on a fri morning is advseable to look at the type of licence plates parked out front loads of Saudi cars is indicative of what kind of neighbors you might have...but there are many nice bldgs here, and the drive to work is 15 mins the drive home is a different matter..but a short detour to hidd and over the "new bridge" is time saving...all this is beside the point I have friends on all fleets, and will "pm" you the pay slip facts and figures so you can decide....kids in school are the show stopper here...academic standards are fantastic....fees are as well....another matter entirely...Emirates guys suffering the same headache as well....

Right now I live down by Seef mall. Nice area and not too miserable a drive. No kids (no that would be coming here) to worry about schooling and I just shed 180 lbs of ugly fat so no wife to bring. Is the $6000/month estimate for an FO or Capt? Its getting more enticing by the minute particularly since my alimony is tied to my base salary. By the way do any of the US guys pay taxes on any of the income?

Thanks again. You are all being very helpful and patient! Kilkenny's are on me! If I can buy someone a beer at Fiddler's and pick their brain I'll post my local mobile in a PM.

Cheers
HP

6K is for FO

Hi, all!

I really don´t want to be annoying, but is there anybody that can give me some detailed information about the Gulf Air tests or at least where to get some. I would really appreciate. Thanks a lot!!!

Gulf air...
 

Thank you guys, I have been reading carefully all of your comments... I have been applying since 2004 for gulfair but never get any answer.... I used to fly for air canada jazz on the dash8 with a total of 5500h... so... I heard that there is some guys with a very low time hired on the A320.. no big deal I guess... just waiting for my time to come... one thing for sure it seems to be a very good company... but what kind of test can we expect?
thank you very much guys for your advises... hope to meet you over there one day..
cheers.:}