investments for pilots?
 

Now that most of us are stuck in lock down, paid 50% (QA, EK, EY...), and probably seeing colleagues, if not ourselves, get fired soon, it's time for me to think a bit more about the financial future.

One of the 3 airlines has paid 3 days of salary as a "bonus" to it's employees in Feb, pre-corona, while sneakily removing multiple tens of thousands of dirhams in End of Service Benefits, Health insurances, school fee allowances, internet allowances, etc... behind the backs of their employees.

Getting tired of depending on employers who dictate our lives. What are you all doing about pensions, replacement income, top up to monthly salaries, your financial future?

Gold?
Stocks?
Bitcoin?
Real Estate?
Forex?

What are your tips, opinions, plans to handle the future? Never waste a good crisis, they say...

NEVER ask a pilot for investment advice

Just buy a restaurant. What can go wrong? ;)

​​​​​​.... or a property down in the sandpit

Sound advice

Investment for Pilots 101
 

1. Invest for the long term by making regular purchases
2. If it feels too good to be true, it probably is
3. Diversified portfolio - geographically as well
4. Low cost Index Trackers
5. Don't try to "time the market"
6..Get professional advice from reputable sources, read the small print very carefully especially about fees and (my opinion, others may disagree) - avoid Insurance Based products.
7. DON'T waste your time and money on "get rich quick" Commodities, Forex Trading, Futures Trading and other similar courses! There's a reason it takes the professionals years to reach a proficient skill level!
8. Don't get divorced!!!

I'm sure others can - and will - add to this list!
Best of luck.
7B

Read...
 

Start by reading Millionaire Expat, great book and easy to read. It is kind of oriented to expats but the principle of how to prepare for retirement, how to invest, etc applies to everyone.

Great advices. Especially the "don't buy in the sandpit" one. I made that mistake already.

I read all the books (Millionaire Fastlane, all the Kiyosaki's, 4 hour work week, Tim Robbins Unshakable, Intelligent Investor, Makers and Takers, .... and many more).

I do have real estate in 3 different continents, stock portfolio, crypto portfolio, art, ... etc.

I'm def NOT into any grow rich quick schemes, I only invest for the long term. Actually found just the investment for me that works out great overseas.

Just interesting to know what like minded colleagues invest in. Would be nice to have an exchange or motivational group! Always on the hunt!

Best investment is cash in the house. Lots of it possibly.

I read all the books (Millionaire Fastlane, all the Kiyosaki's, 4 hour work week, Tim Robbins Unshakable, Intelligent Investor, Makers and Takers, .... and many more).

I do have real estate in 3 different continents, stock portfolio, crypto portfolio, art, ... etc.

..................…....and then you die!

Owwwkaayyy..? So back to getting drunk on Dom P and ordering the new G class AMG in between the Calcutta turnarounds then.

Where would you all consider real estate and what do you consider good returns/safe investment?

[QUOTE=Ninja

Where would you all consider real estate and what do you consider good returns/safe investment?[/QUOTE]

For one, don't build your house on sand.......ancient piece of wisdom!

Is that what you think I am doing? 😄

Hope not. Just wondering what the point of your answer was... Don't understand it at all.
Would you recommend flying until 65 and then become SFI, work until 75 and then drop dead on the job? I guess not, so, better take action in my thirties... Hence, the post. Always looking for advice, valid points, ideas, constructive feedback, ...

I'd recommend the book "The Simple Path to Wealth: Your Road Map to Financial Independence and a Rich, Free Life"... until last month the sand pit was the perfect place for an intelligent pilot to reach financial independence and never have to put up with the ups and downs of aviation ever again. Not sure what the future holds but I'm glad to see that people like you are finally questioning the rat race.

777boyo has outlined most of the salient points. What I would add is that investment is a game you start young, due to the major effect of compounding returns. If you are thinking that investment will save you and you are age 35 then you will be eventually disappointed. If you are age 45+ then forget it, you have missed the boat completely.

Hi, I agree with your first comment, but to say that you are out of the game if starting at 45 is not really true. You just have to commit more of your income to equity investment with no dumb risks or get rich quick schemes, don't hire an expensive financial guru or gold plated investment company, take every tax break your government offers and hope you don't retire in the year of the biggest financial crash since 1929. Oops, I nearly got it all correct, but even though I have suffered a big hit in the last few weeks, I still have enough to last me the next 30 years. And I started my pension saving seriously at 45.
Tips
Always have 3-5 years spending cash on deposit.
Don't waste your money on things that depreciate.
If you are a Captain, live on a FO's salary.
Oh, and don't get divorced.

Good stuff. Ordered your book @lfbb, haven't read that one yet.
I'm mid thirties and been investing for the last 8 years so hopefully not too old yet. On a captain salary but not even spending like a cabin crew, while still having a very nice life style, I believe.
(I really do want to quit this industry asap)

I wouldn't say any age is too late to start though.
@Macdo, I def don't have 3 to 5 years of spending, need to work on that. (Been buying inflation adjusted government backed assets whenever I can lately)
I do have a bit of savings but I keep thinking my EOSB would last me a year or two without working, since I don't have any loans or debts except for mortgages paid by tenants.
Would you recommend building up more cash? I'm more into cash flow than cash reserves, but it's all about finding the right balance I agree.

Love the tips and opinions, keep 'em coming.

I don't blame you for not understanding! You mention a whole list of "stuff" you have already accumulated on a "pilot's forum" and then expect to receive good advice on how to get even more. None of this stuff can be taken to the grave anyway, so why bother? Real wisdom you will find somewhere else, not here. "He who dies with the most toys wins" is a big lie which I read on a t-shirt once!

I understand this thread is not interesting to you, but then don't participate, because your answers add zero value to the thread.

I don't have any "toys". I drive a 12 year old car, unlike you I don't have a fancy Breitling or other things to brag about, nor do I want them. A desert camping trip watching the sunset does it just as much for me.
I can't take my investments to the grave but my 2 boys will sure be grateful I did them one day. And I'm sure they'll benefit me sooner or later too.
My goal is to become independent of a salary, independent of employers who are dictating what we do, even in our days off. Hopefully having a choice in life, to continue to work if we want to, not because we have to. Unfortunately I don't get a fancy GCC pension so I need to take care of it myself, now.

I find there's lots of our colleagues with the same mindset. Hence this thread. Bragging is the last thing on my mind. Good tips and opinions of like minded pilots to achieve my goals sooner, is the first.

If someones investment advise is so good, then why are they telling you about it?
If they are any good, they would be extremely wealthy and wouldn't give a sh!t about you.
If you found a gold streak whilst digging, do you a). Keep digging and keep it, or b). Yell "Eureka", so all and sundry can enjoy it too.
Unfortunately the financial advice givers were neither gold diggers nor even prospectors. Hell, they weren't even there. They read about it.

I find those giving advice are are inflating their own ego by pretending to be more knowledgeable and smarter than you.
Those receiving money for advice are the smart ones. All care, no responsibility. Actually, no care either.
How many times do we get called from someone called Matt, selling investment advice?
And which one of us profited by handing Matt all our phone numbers?
But that's it. These people make money from giving advice, not figuring it out, analyzing, modelling and Warren Buffting anything.
They tell you what their opinion is and you pay them, for something they read about.

And opinions (advice) are like arseholes. Every one has one.

You are assuming an awful lot about me habibi!

From your own admission you are mid thirties with a captain's salary, so a lot of things can still go wrong and it will. Most of these things/books/schemes/scams you are mentioning and seeking more info about, is going to bite you in years to come. Ask me how I know!

All I am trying to tell you out of the goodness of my heart is not to look for these answers here (this forum and in the sand), exactly as halas has just mentioned.

Halas, ain't that the truth! Agree with you 100%. Why would someone who knows how to make millions publish it in a book and spread it to the whole world? Maybe the millions he/she is making, actually come from the pimping of this same financial porn we are all advised to read.

Ninja, you say that my posts are not adding any value to this thread, but actually it does. Unfortunately it is not what you wanted to hear, but you should take heed.

14 6 out!

@146: you started by assuming I was into toys and bragging. Which couldn't be further from what I stand for.
No it doesn't really add value to say .... And then you die. I started a simple and hopefully educative post for all who click on it, a real shame it attracts negative comments for nothing.
And if I assumed things, then I apologise for it.

@Halas: Many greats give investment advice (your very own Warren Buffet, Ray Dalio, Kyosaki, ... the list is long). To me it makes sense to listen to what they say, beyond their inflated ego's. And yeah, I don't see much problems with sharing investment advice if you're onto something good. You can buy BRK stock and share your reasons with the world, it's not going to take all the available shares away from you... Not every investment is like an oil rig, finite and beneficial only for the rig owner.

I'll still listen to all advices, analyse them in detail, and then take my own decisions like a grown up. Indeed I won't act on the Matt's and John's from pension funds targeting UAE expats on a constant basis, but saying that all people sharing advice is cocky and out of self interest is not really smart either.

I'll make up my own mind on the advices I get. We should all be smart enough to filter the bs from the more valuable feedback. I'll say it again, I'm not looking for the next get rich quick scheme, forex scam, local property to buy... But I am assuming that there are lots of pretty smart pilots in the region who do invest in the right things, and who have genuine experiences to share that can benefit us all. My ego is pretty unimportant and I won't pretend I know it better than all advice givers. I want to learn.

@directimped : that's the whole aim. Spending more and better time with family. Back home. Corona kinda messed things up though, no jobs back home in the US, Europe or Asia... However I don't agree that you can't leave the UAE with a solid base. Our salary allows us plenty of saving, take your extra AED and invest it out of the country, where you get better safety/returns/protection or whatever it is you are looking for, where economies are a little more robust or don't depend on your wasta.
I don't think I'm causing serious damage to my sons right now. If so, any one with kids in the UAE should leave?

This is meant to be a positive thread, not a pissing contest, we get that enough in our industry. Let's try to stick with motivational posts and positive advice?

When I got my first airline job at the age of 40 an older Captain, who had been made redundant 3 times, advised me to always keep 1 years money in the bank to survive the time taken to get the next job. That was in the late 1990's a decade which was mostly bad for pilot employment. I think we are about to enter another bad period for pilots employment, so the advice is still good.
Some years later I became a fan of the FIRE concept. Financial Independence Retire Early. The basics of this is first, set out your goals in terms of how and when you want to retire and on what level of income. My target was age 60 on 70%. I assume I will live 30 years post retirement. Generally, you need to remain fully or mainly invested in the stock market to maintain enough annual growth in your portfolio to live off. The trouble is equity growth is not linear and occasionally has a big set back, such as we have right now. The Cash cushion is there so that you can live without taking money from your equity during the recovery. Most books suggest 2-3 years is sufficient to allow recovery from the worst of stock market corrections and subsequent recoveries recorded over the last 100 years. I was more cautious and planned for a 5 year recovery. In the current crisis I may be proved right, or things may be better. Major corrections tend to happen once every 20 years of so, although minor ones happen more regularly. So, once this is over, even if all my cash cushion has been spent, I should have a recovered equity pot to live off until I die. The worst case scenario is living off a smaller pot of money, but there are no guarantees. So, with your situation at mid 30's, you have plenty of time to plan where you want to be at retirement. I was lucky (?) in that I inherited a small lump sum about 10 years ago, which helped along the way. It could have been a nice Porsche, but it actually turned into basis for a long and happy retirement. For a year I put 80% of my salary into my pension scheme as I could see the recovery from the 2008 banking crisis. That was probably the best decision I made as we entered the longest bull market in history. And, although it was tempting at time, I avoided getting divorced!

Ninja, I will try one last time........

You said: "I do have real estate in 3 different continents, stock portfolio, crypto portfolio, art, ... etc." and this is what I said you are bragging about, not toys, but you keep on mentioning said toys, so I can't help but think it is on your mind continuously!

You also said:" I read all the books (Millionaire Fastlane, all the Kiyosaki's, 4 hour work week, Tim Robbins Unshakable, Intelligent Investor, Makers and Takers, .... and many more)."

From this I think you already have all the investments and financial advice you could probably use, but you came here seeking more.
What I am telling you is that I have already heard/read/tried all of this nonsense you are talking about and got burnt in many different ways. From your long winded posts and assumptions I can tell you are not a good listener and instead want us to look into all these wonderful schemes. There is a sticky at the top of this forum explaining nicely the kind of bs we had to endure over the years in this place.

I have said what I wanted you to understand......it is now in your hands.

Good luck to us all. The world will be different place in a few months time.

PS, of course it adds value, but you refuse to see it. How many times should people have to tell you that lifestyle and not losing your soul is more important than making money and investments. It is an attempted wake-up call to say......and then you die!, but you still don't catch it.

Anyway, I am saying goodbye now for the 3rd time.....

146, somehow you seem to think that thinking about your financials or retirement doesn't go together with enjoying life, and makes you lose your soul...?
One couldn't possibly be into investing and having a nice life at the same time?
Ninja isn't really forcing his opinions onto us, he doesn't want us to look into wonderful schemes, he's asking genuine questions and wants to learn or talk with like minded colleagues.

Maybe all those times you got burned made you a little resentful...

Ninja, I thank you for this post. I find it more interesting than my bulletin updates or new HR policy. And agreed, I thoroughly like reading posts like the one from macdo. Very smart and valuable words.
Can't help you much more than the above but I am interested in how others set up their retirement.

Let's get through this corona crisis with a smile. And let's hope we keep our jobs!

Well, thanks guys for proving my point in Post #2

Thanks macdo, great stuff. Learned a lot from that post. Will do some more reading on FIRE concept, heard about it before but not in detail. Got any nice books/articles/websites about it?
Lovely to take the time to write in such detail.

Lots of good advice above.

Steady monthly investments. Live within your means. I spent 29 years in the Army Reserve in addition to a civilian career - now the biggest single piece of my financial future. No new cars since 1999; even then the three new cars I ever had I kept 7-8 years each. I bought a 2006 BMW for cash three years ago. My wife's daily driver is a 2012 Honda, bought used.

I'd rather be financially stable than look rich. Most of us will never be rich, but we can be comfortable and secure. I'm 60. I could stop working. I will retire early from my civil service job early next year and am now training to be copilot for a local charter business.

Good habits started early pay off in the long term. It's never too late, however, to do better. Thankfully I'm married to someone who thinks the same way. :)

You're welcome. As for FIRE there are numerous websites and blogs as doubtless you have found. If you want a book, I found Enough by Paul Armson easily digestible and is FIRE orientated. http://site.iugaza.edu.ps/wdaya/file...all-Street.pdf is on my list of books to read, free pdf from link.
Monevator is a popular FIRE blogger.
I highly recommend the Vlogger Pensioncraft on youtube. His dissection and explanation of various methods of self investing are highly regarded. Covers current topics and basic principles every Saturday. Saved me from losing a lot of money a fortnight ago.
https://www.firecalc.com/ is a powerful modelling tool for retirement planning. It is US orientated, but still stands for UK calcs.
Hope this helps.

I strongly disagree with that advice - I often ask my colleagues where they invest. Only so that I know where not to!

https://www.mrmoneymustache.com
+
https://canadiancouchpotato.com
+
The Micawber Principle: Living the Fundamental Law of Personal Finance - The Micawber Principle
=
contentment and sufficiency ever after

Invest in Norwegian ;)

thanks to the contributors ! Reading up on a lot of good stuff thanks to you. Wish I would have started this at age 20!

Any other tips from fellow aviators more than welcome. I'll skip on Norwegian though, bottomless pits and all...

2 Books:

1) The Wealthy Barber
2) The Wealthy Barber Returns

Golden advice. Especially the last one!

Jajaja 😂
So agree!

Best book ever
 

I am surprised no one mentioned "The art of the Deal" by F. J.T. ..... 😂 😂
I will give you the top job!