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Cerbus - in the late '90's and possibly into the 2000's, the EK pilot salary scales were set by a comparison with the salary scales of a "basket" of other, what might be called for the purpose, "top tier" carriers. I believe there were five in the basket, and included BA, CX and SQ, if my recall is correct. I don't recall when that comparison exercise was dropped, if indeed it was, or if/when the component airlines of the basket changed, but I do remember the whole exercise gradually became much less transparent to the pilots after GJ retired as GM Flight Ops (or whatever the title was back then).
7B |
the fifth was QF
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Originally Posted by MaverickPrime
(Post 10516922)
Decline in T&Cs goes much wider than aviation. I remember in the early 2000s, my dad was a police constable at the top of his scale earning £42k. My mum was a clerical worker earning £20k on a part time NHS contract; that’s the equivalent of £67k and £32k respectively in today’s money.
Today the top of the police constable scale is £38k and a full time clerical worker in the NHS still earns £20k max. Leave allocation has reduced and final salary pensions are gone. There are a lot of reasons for the pathetic levels remuneration across the developed world today; corporate & individual greed, increasing population & reducing workforce, over regulation, decline of the west... the list is endless and I think the snowball has got too big to stop. I fear the only way to succeed in life is to plot your own career path, accept that there will be many twists and turns in your life, accept that you cannot rely on any single organisation to provide you with a living and just make the most of what life throws at you. Its a brave new new world we live in, those who succeed will be those who can adapt. Sitting around looking back into the past with rose tinted glasses is not going to get you anywhere. |
Not to mention that no one at EK would have the seniority to hold LHS Delta 777 or Qantas 380. Just because you fly the same AC does not qualify for the same pay. HY Fly 380 same as BA 380 ? |
Originally Posted by cerbus
(Post 10518330)
Yet by you you staying at EK you ARE approving of management actions towards its pilots. You are part of the problem. I might be ignorant at times but to suggest this is happening worldwide is off base. Delta is demanding a 30% raise in their opener and this on top of their Industry leading pay rates to say nothing of their contract terms. AA and QF will get nice raises too in the immediate future. You are what you demand. Its not realistic to expect everyone to walk away from a job like EK because ‘I should be working for a legacy, I deserve better’. Want we all want and what is available/given are two VERY different things. Despite what you may think, EK is still attractive to many pilots around the world. Even with the lack of payrises, the money is still reasonable in comparison to what is on offer elsewhere. The trade off is obviously how hard we all work and the lack of normal employee protections most of us enjoy back home. I’m not ‘pro EK management’ before you try and paint me with this brush. Just realistic. Plus this idea that we should all be working for the best and screw the rest, pisses me off. Everyone takes the best option available to them at the time. |
World Situation
Originally Posted by aviation_enthus
(Post 10521685)
All well and good to say this BUT not everyone can work at Delta, AA or QF. My first choice was QF, I’d argue it’s the top of the pile in OZ and pretty much every pilot that starts out aims for the top. If I’d been offered a QF gig, I’d be there. But I wasn’t, so EK was the next best choice. Its not realistic to expect everyone to walk away from a job like EK because ‘I should be working for a legacy, I deserve better’. Want we all want and what is available/given are two VERY different things. Despite what you may think, EK is still attractive to many pilots around the world. Even with the lack of payrises, the money is still reasonable in comparison to what is on offer elsewhere. The trade off is obviously how hard we all work and the lack of normal employee protections most of us enjoy back home. I’m not ‘pro EK management’ before you try and paint me with this brush. Just realistic. Plus this idea that we should all be working for the best and screw the rest, pisses me off. Everyone takes the best option available to them at the time. Times have change and being a pilot is not what it used to be years ago. Many years ago landing a Job at a decent airline was hard, nowadays there are plenty of options but quantity doesn't necessarily mean quality. Pilots are stuck in the old mentalities where we want to work less for more, sorry gentleman but that is over. If being a pilot and the salaries you are getting aren't enough nowadays then I guess is time to look for a career change. Even if pilots would be put to work less they would still complaint. I am not in favor of any company I am just realistic on what the market is and what it has to offer and unless you can work in legacy airlines with good benefits which by the way they are very few of those, we are stuck with what we have because. Everywhere you want to fly you are expected to be productive, that is the new TERM. Theres no perfect job and there will never be one specially nowadays. |
Pay at Emirates? Yearly COLA
Hi Guys! Ive always been curious about Emirates and the pay. How do you guys get paid? Hourly? Salary? Contract? Do you have yearly raises or do you negotiate for them? Is the company good about giving them out? What does the pilot group do to achieve higher rates?
Also the rumor is that bunk time does not count for block hour limitations. Do pilots call in Fatique or is there an issue? I, for one, have always thought of DXB a nice place to be, albeit hot. Can an expat buy a house there? Thanks in advance! |
Bunk time paid yes FTL no fatigue plenty but very few report in fear of fleet pay 90/10 salary/ hourly contract not worth the paper it's written on buy property yes but buyer beware !!!!! schools good dubai a nice place , NOT, mentally and physically draining . Unless single and only want CC . Burn out quickly, hence the attrition which is never reported correctly. |
So if we can't compare Delta or Qantas to us how do we measure ourselves? I know not very well but under your metrics we should never leave because we will take a pay cut.
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Originally Posted by Captain Z
(Post 10523912)
Hi Guys! Ive always been curious about Emirates and the pay. How do you guys get paid? Hourly? Salary? Contract? Do you have yearly raises or do you negotiate for them? Is the company good about giving them out? What does the pilot group do to achieve higher rates?
Also the rumor is that bunk time does not count for block hour limitations. Do pilots call in Fatique or is there an issue? I, for one, have always thought of DXB a nice place to be, albeit hot. Can an expat buy a house there? Thanks in advance! is the company good at giving out pay rises? Now that’s just funny. |
Cereus ? Sorry that makes no sense. Compare to other carriers, look at other similar " expat " airlines . |
Originally Posted by fatbus
(Post 10524621)
Cereus ? Sorry that makes no sense. Compare to other carriers, look at other similar " expat " airlines . Of course EK management want to compare their pay scales with those of lowest LCC's and why not? They have "the shareholder" (also known as the ruler of Dubai, or "government" ) to pay. All in all it is a moot point in reality. EK will continue to attract young pilots with the desire to fly shiny wide body jets to far away places. They will be hired, trained and used until they burn out then will be replaced with a new serviceable unit. Since EK hires from the GLOBAL pool of pilots, the supply is effectively endless and will continue to be so. Of course, ( to coin the utterance of "Alan The Great", if you don't like it then leave........for now. |
Not even asking for comparable Legacy carrier pay - simply step. What the ‘be happy it’s a decent job’ young gun crowd fail to grasp is that in a very quick 10 years - you will be down 30-40% yet fully vested in DXB due kids in school, possible wife career - with the prospect of having to start again somewhere else in order to work for employer that actually keeps up. All while our employer has made billions over the last ten years. Comparing US legacies to here is ascinine - you have a Union, we have a jail cell. |
Originally Posted by K1000
(Post 10521855)
I agree with you.
Times have change and being a pilot is not what it used to be years ago. Many years ago landing a Job at a decent airline was hard, nowadays there are plenty of options but quantity doesn't necessarily mean quality. Pilots are stuck in the old mentalities where we want to work less for more, sorry gentleman but that is over. If being a pilot and the salaries you are getting aren't enough nowadays then I guess is time to look for a career change. Even if pilots would be put to work less they would still complaint. I am not in favor of any company I am just realistic on what the market is and what it has to offer and unless you can work in legacy airlines with good benefits which by the way they are very few of those, we are stuck with what we have because. Everywhere you want to fly you are expected to be productive, that is the new TERM. Theres no perfect job and there will never be one specially nowadays. And the above comment is why the entire industry is on a race to the bottom... “ it’s not going to get better, just accept it’s going to get worse, shut up and get on with it’ .. while those at the top get more and more. Is the CEO of Qantas really worth 23 mill a year? IMHO.. he’s not. And those at the top in EK continue taking untold riches while constantly eroding the conditions for those at the coal face. While all the new young pilots say.. it’s ok, the jets are big and shiny and the girls are cute. 😤😤 |
Originally Posted by SOPS
(Post 10525091)
it’s ok, the jets are big and shiny and the girls are cute.
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Originally Posted by JAARule
(Post 10525746)
A lot of pilots here seem to struggle with the fact that they are lied to so much. If they accept that most of what they're told re contract and conditions (and life in general) is probably bull**** and won't change, and adjust their outlooks and long-term plans accordingly, then they might sleep easier and be happier.
OW |
I wish the dribble of how bad it is Everywhere would stop. Some airlines suck for sure and EK heads up this forum for very good reasons but it is not awful everywhere.
I left Emirates for greener pastures (much greener) and my new airline is asking for a 30% pay raise and will probably get something close to that in addition to a 25% retirement contribution. LH, BA and Qantas will also do well in the months to come. If you set your sights low you won't get much. If you demand more you will get more. There is a worldwide pilot shortage so now is the time to take advantage of this situation that has not existed for probably 40 years. Low pay and lot's of flying hours is not the best way for prosperity, at least not for pilots. |
Originally Posted by Neptune Spear
(Post 10528423)
I wish the dribble of how bad it is Everywhere would stop. Some airlines suck for sure and EK heads up this forum for very good reasons but it is not awful everywhere.
I left Emirates for greener pastures (much greener) and my new airline is asking for a 30% pay raise and will probably get something close to that in addition to a 25% retirement contribution. LH, BA and Qantas will also do well in the months to come. If you set your sights low you won't get much. If you demand more you will get more. There is a worldwide pilot shortage so now is the time to take advantage of this situation that has not existed for probably 40 years. Low pay and lot's of flying hours is not the best way for prosperity, at least not for pilots. "Worldwide Pilot shortage".....Don't make me laugh....even Ryanair have stopped recruiting. |
STC has stated another 2-3 years to get the airline back on track. Wouldn’t expect any raise until that time... |
Originally Posted by Yorkshire_Pudding
(Post 10529980)
STC has stated another 2-3 years to get the airline back on track. Wouldn’t expect any raise until that time... Hmmmm ! Back on track .. ? does that mean it’s “ off track “ |
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