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EK & FZ latest offers
Feel free to correct my figures which were obtained directly from their respective websites so don't ask me where they came from.
All figures in AED. 1 USD = 3.67 AED. Figures shown per month of benefits which can be taken as cash. EK Pax (Min 7000hrs TT, 3000hrs PIC >50T, 1000hrs wide body time, current as commander) 36417 Salary 6300 Flying (based on 80hrs @ AED78/hr. Note not paid while on leave.) 16075 Housing (Available as an option for new joiners. No longer available for existing employees in company accommodation.) 4370 Provident fund (Can only be taken on retirement/resignation and may be worth more or less then invested. Must serve 7 years in order to get back all of companies contributions. 58792 Total available as cash. Less deductions for provident fund and medical 63162 Total Including provident fund which can only be taken upon retirement/resignation and subject to time served EK Cargo (minimum 7000hrs, 3000hrs PIC >50T, 1000hrs wide body time, current as commander) 30872 Salary 3937 Flying (based on 50hrs @ AED78/hr. Note not paid while on leave.) 12500 Housing (Available as an option for new joiners. No longer available for existing employees in company accommodation.) 3704 Provident fund (Can only be taken on retirement/resignation and may be worth more or less then invested. Must serve 7 years in order to get back all of companies contributions. 47309 Total available as cash. Less deductions for provident fund and medical 51013 Total Including provident fund which can only be taken upon retirement/resignation and subject to time served Other Benefits Loss of license, Access to discounts throughout Dubai via discount card (most companies in Dubai have similar schemes), Subsidised Medical/Dental, Good Staff travel, Nice pickup and drop off from home to work. Free uniform, Free uniform dry cleaning (Dubai Only), 42 days annual leave (pax fleet) 12 days annual leave (cargo fleet), Subsidised schooling. Profit share Possible deductions from salary Family medical contributions Additional Schooling (allowance wont cover some schools with higher fees, pre school not covered, Allowance will not cover senior years) Fines (missed medical appointments, no show for staff travel) Employee Provident fund contributions (fully refundable on retirement/resignation and valuation subject to market/investments) Company mobile calls (claimable if you can work out how) The Good Fast upgrades provided you stay out of trouble Good fellow pilots New aircraft and well maintained and supported Very extensive route structure Good company facilities Company pick up and drop off to work Staff Travel Company Accommodation with free maintenance and utilities (electricity/water/gas for your bbq) The Bad A lot of flying (90-100hrs every month) involving a mixture of ultra long hall, short haul, night turnarounds, and cargo. Little training and a lot of checking Very difficult to get medical and dental appointments although has been improving of late You may not be happy with your allocation accommodation And the Ugly Punitive culture - warning letters, QAR monitoring, Fuel monitoring, productivity monitoring, HR driven disciplinary processes , downgrades, generally stressful environment. Very difficult to get leave Poor family/social life due to fatigue and lack of leave and days off. FLY Dubai (Min 5,000hrs TT, 1500hrs PIC >10 T, 1000PIC 737 NG/EFIS 42825 Salary 12900 Flying 18500 Other benefits (not sure of how much of this can be taken as cash) 74225 Total |
As a complete outsider seems that Flydubai is a tempting alternative. Is the pax/cargo pay difference typical in the industry? |
The other benefits of 18500 at FZ is a little bit off scale.
The only cash elements out of the other benefits are the schooling allowance and the annual leave ticket. The rest are stuff like insurance, LOL etc which are factored in. The actual FZ paycheque will be 42825AED(housing + basic + Transport allowance) + Flight Pay and Layover Allowance. You are entitled to schooling if you have kids and one annual leave ticket for yourself and each of your dependents (upto 3 kids). You are not going to get any more money. And when you leave you are entitled to your End of Service Benefits according to UAE law which is 5 weeks of your basic/year. And as you mentioned you get the 100% only if you spend 7years atleast. |
Originally Posted by turbulence_fl360
(Post 10167917)
The other benefits of 18500 at FZ is a little bit off scale.
The only cash elements out of the other benefits are the schooling allowance and the annual leave ticket. The rest are stuff like insurance, LOL etc which are factored in. The actual FZ paycheque will be 42825AED(housing + basic + Transport allowance) + Flight Pay and Layover Allowance. You are entitled to schooling if you have kids and one annual leave ticket for yourself and each of your dependents (upto 3 kids). You are not going to get any more money. And when you leave you are entitled to your End of Service Benefits according to UAE law which is 5 weeks of your basic/year. And as you mentioned you get the 100% only if you spend 7years atleast. Can school allowance being used overseas???? If so, how much money per kid on middle school?? Does FZ offer company accommodation or just housing allowance??? |
The good the bad and the ugly
As Clint would say ...a mans got to know his limitations....and in uae there are non. alaru .....With regard to your post it seems not balanced you should at least mention the good bad ugly of FZ to make fair comparison.also I recollect that FZ employee get emirates sub load entitlement as well! |
flydubai is a good alternative if you want a no stress environment, good quality of life compared to EK, sleep in your own bed 90% of the time and upgrade within on average 2.5 years. It's the people you work with that are nice. Flt ops managers are approachable and yes, nice. Don't expect Western style decision making anyware but as long as you just do as they ask you to do you'll be fine. A big shift away from a punitive style training to actual training during LPC/OPC's. Very welcome move! Education assistance now allowed untill age 21. (iso 19) Stable rosters. Not more that 1 roster change on average per 2 months. Good myIDTravel stafftravel for a loco with EK/EY and another 30+ airlines for self and parents/in-laws on many airlines too. Forever expanding from a single base. (DWC ops so far is negligable) You always get your 42 days of contractual leave. Money is always on time. The bad is the seniority system does not work for rosters and leave. As a DEC it's tough but I do see very junior DEC's doing popular flights too. Leave system is unfair and does not work. It's just doesn't work anymore on our nbr of pilots. Forget sensible payrises on basic or allowances to offset inflation or VAT. Bonusses will never be paid out as we either never qualify or the bar is unrealistically high. Too much deadheading in economy with 12-14+hr days. (day and night) No Platinum card. No transfer option to EK for those that do fancy longhaul. No buddy stafftravel tickets on EK for example. Roaters are generally piblished far too late IMHO. Usually 7 days before the end of the month as per the books but it sometimes nearly takes 2 weeks between the last day of bidding and roster publication. What happens in those 2 weeks? What's coming? A new rostering system with min 12 days off for everyone. Potentially even up to 14 per month. No single days off, no deadheads. A few more layovers. This new system will then also allow a new leave bidding system awarding seniority and spreading the load evenly. I think EK has the better overall package but you can't put a price on seeing your family every day and being in your own bed almost always without jetlag or longhaul fatigue. If you are young or in a relationship without kids go to EK. With kids I'd go flydubai. Dubai is all about EK as it's the money maker and has the brand name.And that's ok. Funny isn't it that when people find out you're a pilot the first thing they'll ask is; "what fleet"? Assuming you are with EK. When you say 737 with flydubai it's almost always; "oh" and the end of the discussion. Still makes me giggle. I must have missed quite a few good/bad points but this is my view so far having been here 5+ years in the left seat. I really like it here and are happy to stay. |
Originally Posted by High Energy
(Post 10168411)
flydubai is a good alternative if you want a no stress environment, good quality of life Or you are in the top 5% of the seniority list, in that case please don't make a general statement from your particular situation |
Originally Posted by Newcomer2
(Post 10168922)
Thanks for the good laugh, I almost spilled my coffee on the keyboard! Or you are in the top 5% of the seniority list, in that case please don't make a general statement from your particular situation My June roster has seventy hours of flying, only one deep night flight (and its a short one to Saudi), a 48 hour layover somewhere sunny that isn't DXB, and eight days off / leave at the end of the month. I didn't pay any bribes but I also don't bother bidding, just fly what I'm given. Don't know where High Energy is on the seniority list, and also none of the other seven airlines I've flown for have been long haul, so can't really compare FZ to EK. But I've worked at worse places than FZ, even in the UK. If you come from a country where security may be an issue, or if you come from a turboprop / light jet and want a quick command on a reasonable sized jet, or if you want to be at home most nights then FZ isn't the worst place to be. |
Awesome information here thanks guys.
I believe at FZ you can "sell" some flying days to get extra off days...if thats the case then i can come for a few days a month (I know it's not a commuting contract) but it doesn' help my decision making....maybe I should DODAR it? �� 10 years of flying left (which will put me at 55yrs by then) do I go to FZ as a DEC or EK as FO and wait for command? Single at this stage, no kids. Any suggestions and opinions please. Thanks |
"Italian stallion" At FZ you got places where flights are swapped and or sold, however do not plan on that being every month or very much if any at all, its not easy to give away flights to get extra days off unless ur willing to $$ for someone to take ur flights. Grabbing flights is however a different story IF you have any days off that you can uses which is rather limited.
Positives are the quick upgrade (If you get good scores on your OPC´s and LPC´s) relaxed atmosphere and great guys to fly with on a daily basis. FO pay you top out at MAX 44.000AED. (thats flying 85-95hrs) and thats including everything. Captain around 55-60K at the MAX again flying high hours. Living in Dubai, if your single you be more than able to save up some money on either salary, but having kids its a different story and at times a struggle to make ends meet on an FO salary if you got bills to pay back home such as a house in your home country. Apart from your annual leave do not expect to go home during the month of flying, MAX you gonna see of days off blocks is 3-4 (this being if ur lucky) mostly you may get 2-3 days off in a row scattered out on ur roster. Negatives are the rather high level of negativity, but us pilots tends to be rather negative no matter what job we have and I have to say FZ is one of the better companies I worked in when it comes to the flying. I find pretty much all the pilots very competent and professional but the grass is always greener on the other side. U work a lot but u do that in any companies, the night flying to crazy destinations are at times challenging but an experience in it self too. Another one is the training, be prepared to study ur ass off, especially if you come NON-typed, training is limited and requires you to do more work than u ever done before (Believe me I am not joking) When all is said is done, FZ is to me a good company, I would recommend my friends to come here, but would also be sure to explain to them that they need to study way more than they done before, the requirements here especially for the upgrade are crazy high. I would also tell them that if joining as an FO they have to suffer for a few years till the upgrade financially if they bring their family and kids with them. Its crazy expensive to setup shop in the UAE, I personally spend 150.000AED just to get seattled in the beginning with housing fees, agency fees, furniture, car and so on, and it will take you time to recover that money. But overall im pretty happy and find the company to be safe and stable and with some fun flying at times too. :) |
Originally Posted by Newcomer2
(Post 10168922)
Thanks for the good laugh, I almost spilled my coffee on the keyboard! Or you are in the top 5% of the seniority list, in that case please don't make a general statement from your particular situation And I do hope it was cheap coffee I made you spill? But this job is so dead easy and stress free that in my opinion it's almost my main reason to stay, besides job security. There are areas to improve like in any company, I'm not blind. But I also know how they do things here so I know what not to expect. I've worked for regional, national and now a low cost airline. Seniority wise I'm between 30-50%. I've had good months and I've certainly had some **** months. Nights come with the job and area. I can't think of a ('loco') 737 job outside of China that pays so well, gives me this awesome lifestyle and I can do whatever I want with a family and still save loads. I've been through the CAE initial training, command upgrade and I've been in the doghouse. All in my 5-7 years here and I'm still smiling. Been there, done that. Like 'theaviator2005' said, the level of negativity today is just out of proportion. Even new SO's are now bitching and moaning they want to leave asap. I guess many people loose perspective of things too quickly now. They haven't had to fly ****ty aircraft whilst dreaming to fly that big Embraer/737/320 to get out of the hole they were in. Struggling financially or having been made redundant with a family with newborns. Moving across continents to make ends meet and start all over again for the 3rd or 4th time and having to worry about what will happen to you or your airline a few years down the line. I'm sorry but I'm laughing my ass off every time I check in. It really is no stress here. Did I mention I'm on max hours with 20 days off in 31? All NON requested! I had to do a few simple swaps without paying anyone but that's about 5 trips in 31 days on MAX hours... |
Originally Posted by High Energy
(Post 10169974)
Like 'theaviator2005' said, the level of negativity today is just out of proportion. Even new SO's are now bitching and moaning they want to leave asap. I guess many people loose perspective of things too quickly now. They haven't had to fly ****ty aircraft whilst dreaming to fly that big Embraer/737/320 to get out of the hole they were in. Struggling financially or having been made redundant with a family with newborns. Moving across continents to make ends meet and start all over again for the 3rd or 4th time and having to worry about what will happen to you or your airline a few years down the line. |
Hi all...
Been a while since I posted. I was due to go for assessment in December last year for FZ and then, out of the blue (no pun etc....), I was offered another Corporate job, thats local, isn't mental busy and with a really decent boss......HOWEVER....I still have that Boeing itch that I want to scratch and long term, I would like the security that flying a narrow body for a company like FZ offers as well as the opportunity for a commuting roster out of Xiamen or similar...?? My other concern is that this gig isn't going to last for a long time....security in my job, is high on my priority list and, knowing where I am and when, if possible. 24/7 call out is boring me now, after 12 years or so... I have a young family and the chance/adventure of living out in DXB kind of appeals....especially with the possibility of private education etc. I wouldn't expect it to be forever....but would do it with a plan in mind. So, I guess I want to know more.....but am after a balanced response, because I know this can be difficult, even if a pilot has had one crap day out of say 10?! I need to visit DXB with my family, of course, but I have ben there plenty in the Corp stuff and have a few friends there at EK and training on Corp Jets at CAE too (no...not the 737 for EZ!). I have 5 jet type ratings (4 of which are multi crew). Am I going to struggle with the technical aspects of getting to grips with the 737, to FZ standards (I've around 4000 hours....2.5 of which are in multi jets...mostly PIC), or is it straight forward enough? I've read mixed thoughts on this. I'm expecting raw data flying for the assessment (any threads anywhere with a good handle on what to look up /practise in advance)?? Whilst expecting to do a number of deep nights, is it true that I am likely never to see the sun?? I'm thinking, I would prefer to get home a lot and at least drop the kids to school after sharing breakfast, or pick them up and share a quick dinner before I head off again....is this realistic? Or, is it better than I am anticipating? Thanks all...... don't shoot me down.... PRETTY PLEASE!! :) Sorry if I have gone round in circles....but I would like some honest opinions. |
Originally Posted by Triple Nickel 8 Ball
(Post 10171515)
Hi all...
Been a while since I posted. I was due to go for assessment in December last year for FZ and then, out of the blue (no pun etc....), I was offered another Corporate job, thats local, isn't mental busy and with a really decent boss......HOWEVER....I still have that Boeing itch that I want to scratch and long term, I would like the security that flying a narrow body for a company like FZ offers as well as the opportunity for a commuting roster out of Xiamen or similar...?? My other concern is that this gig isn't going to last for a long time....security in my job, is high on my priority list and, knowing where I am and when, if possible. 24/7 call out is boring me now, after 12 years or so... I have a young family and the chance/adventure of living out in DXB kind of appeals....especially with the possibility of private education etc. I wouldn't expect it to be forever....but would do it with a plan in mind. So, I guess I want to know more.....but am after a balanced response, because I know this can be difficult, even if a pilot has had one crap day out of say 10?! I need to visit DXB with my family, of course, but I have ben there plenty in the Corp stuff and have a few friends there at EK and training on Corp Jets at CAE too (no...not the 737 for EZ!). I have 5 jet type ratings (4 of which are multi crew). Am I going to struggle with the technical aspects of getting to grips with the 737, to FZ standards (I've around 4000 hours....2.5 of which are in multi jets...mostly PIC), or is it straight forward enough? I've read mixed thoughts on this. I'm expecting raw data flying for the assessment (any threads anywhere with a good handle on what to look up /practise in advance)?? Whilst expecting to do a number of deep nights, is it true that I am likely never to see the sun?? I'm thinking, I would prefer to get home a lot and at least drop the kids to school after sharing breakfast, or pick them up and share a quick dinner before I head off again....is this realistic? Or, is it better than I am anticipating? Thanks all...... don't shoot me down.... PRETTY PLEASE!! :) Sorry if I have gone round in circles....but I would like some honest opinions. I do think you'll at least have the option to bring your kids to school or pick them up. Same still goes for me. I'm very content with our private school. Kids are doing fantastic and I'm only about 2000 aed p/yr in total out of budget , excl uniforms and erverything else that comes with it. School rates are frozen for this year and bear in mind that the schools rating by the KHDA determines their fee and increase. An expensive school is however not always a good school. The assessment does have some raw data flying incl a circuit after a G/A. (last I heard so maybe someone else knows better) Basically if you survive the CAE typerating and still have your sanity you'll fit right in. You'll then get to flydubai training and suddenly realize you've been doing it all wrong as CAE does not have a clue. Training at flydubai has changed in the last year and a half from checking to training and is actually quite pleasent and a welcome development. The trick here is to study harder than you have ever done before. We have about 37 manuals and dozens and dozens of notices and memo's to remember. Manuals get updates really slowly. If you put the work in and the trainers see that you'll be allright. If you haven't they'll tear you apart. And you'll have tonnes of other stuff to worry about when you join wrt housing, paperwork etc etc etc. flydubai is a stable job too. Most locals go on the big jets at EK so they need many folks here. Especially with 200+ more 737's coming... |
Awesome response High energy, thanks.
I will be entering as an F/O....as I don't have any Boeing time etc. As for manuals.....I don't mind learning that kind of stuff (better than trying to retain useless info that you never use day to day ...!!). Maybe at some point, you'd allow me to pick your brains re the school you use and whereabouts its worth living in DXB?? The general feeling I get, is that there are a lot more aircraft coming and, after coming back from a holiday myself, just today in fact (having taken kids out of school....so little difference there!!), I heard Sir Tim from EK (as I flew with EK via DXB to MRU), talking about the amalgamation of EK/FZ and the new routes opening up as a result. Seems that the plan will certainly be to make the MAX's work to the max! If the fleet grows to where it is planned.....it will be huge and plenty of opportunity to climb the ladder for the longer timers. I also get the feeling that, with all the above said, plenty are leaving (Euro/US recruitment drives....) and a lot head for Xiamen for commuting roster (which I would certainly be looking to do, long term, if DXB wasn't for me/us). I think that, whilst it's tough, the training is good and the actual flying is good too, with new aircraft. I haven't seen another airline, of this stature, offering chances on a 737, for people like me.....with only Corporate Aviation as a background and I like that. Sure, they me be getting more "desperate" for pilots now, to be considering my kind.....but I think other 'lines will have to follow suit, as the positions are not getting filled and everyone is asking for higher levels of experience....which they can't find.....look at how EK have started to change now (and from what I can tell....they have an almost MASS exodus problem now). I intend to try my best in August (when they have an assessment in LGW) and see what happens. If any of you DO know more about the sim check side, then I would like to know more, as I will rent a sim in the UK and practice so that when I get in the sim, having "never flown the 737"....I won't look a complete dunce! Cheers all |
Originally Posted by Triple Nickel 8 Ball
(Post 10171657)
Awesome response High energy, thanks.
I will be entering as an F/O....as I don't have any Boeing time etc. As for manuals.....I don't mind learning that kind of stuff (better than trying to retain useless info that you never use day to day ...!!). Maybe at some point, you'd allow me to pick your brains re the school you use and whereabouts its worth living in DXB?? The general feeling I get, is that there are a lot more aircraft coming and, after coming back from a holiday myself, just today in fact (having taken kids out of school....so little difference there!!), I heard Sir Tim from EK (as I flew with EK via DXB to MRU), talking about the amalgamation of EK/FZ and the new routes opening up as a result. Seems that the plan will certainly be to make the MAX's work to the max! If the fleet grows to where it is planned.....it will be huge and plenty of opportunity to climb the ladder for the longer timers. I also get the feeling that, with all the above said, plenty are leaving (Euro/US recruitment drives....) and a lot head for Xiamen for commuting roster (which I would certainly be looking to do, long term, if DXB wasn't for me/us). I think that, whilst it's tough, the training is good and the actual flying is good too, with new aircraft. I haven't seen another airline, of this stature, offering chances on a 737, for people like me.....with only Corporate Aviation as a background and I like that. Sure, they me be getting more "desperate" for pilots now, to be considering my kind.....but I think other 'lines will have to follow suit, as the positions are not getting filled and everyone is asking for higher levels of experience....which they can't find.....look at how EK have started to change now (and from what I can tell....they have an almost MASS exodus problem now). I intend to try my best in August (when they have an assessment in LGW) and see what happens. If any of you DO know more about the sim check side, then I would like to know more, as I will rent a sim in the UK and practice so that when I get in the sim, having "never flown the 737"....I won't look a complete dunce! Cheers all |
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