PPRuNe Forums

PPRuNe Forums (https://www.pprune.org/)
-   Middle East (https://www.pprune.org/middle-east-44/)
-   -   Emirates poaches SAA pilots for quick fix (https://www.pprune.org/middle-east/609506-emirates-poaches-saa-pilots-quick-fix.html)

acryingshame 31st May 2018 07:04

Emirates poaches SAA pilots for quick fix
 
Good day, FDC Colleagues

Last week we had a meeting with Emirates Airlines to explore possibilities of offering SAA pilots 5 years contracts on unpaid leave. They have agreed to offer SAA pilots 5 year contracts which will enable SAA pilots to return to SAA at the end of the contract. They are looking for Both (Captains & First Officers). They have proposed a date for a roadshow as follows:
· 4 June 2018 – 09:00 -11:00
· 4 June 2018 – 14:00 – 16:00
· 5 June 2018 – 09:00 – 11:00

These information sessions will be held in the Change Hub, which is located on the 1st floor Block G (Opposite Standard Bank branch). Following the assessments on the level of interest Emirates will advise on the next steps.

They are currently looking for over 200 pilots. They are looking for 100 pilots for their B777F (Captains and First Officers) on a 28 days ON and 13 days OFF contract.
They are further looking for First Officers on the A380. I have asked them to consider accelerated command, which they are



Mango 31st May 2018 09:21


Originally Posted by acryingshame (Post 10161264)
They are currently looking for over 200 pilots. They are looking for 100 pilots for their B777F (Captains and First Officers) on a 28 days ON and 13 days OFF contract.
They are further looking for First Officers on the A380. I have asked them to consider accelerated command, which they are



Hang on, didn’t our big chief state at Hamburg, Reuters news article, that we are only 150 pilots short and that come September all will be fine? Not to mention the training college churning out hundreds of suitably qualified wide bodied jet pilots?
Why on earth would we need pilots from SAA?

TBL Warrior 31st May 2018 10:07

Riddle me this acryingshame; 737, A319 & A320 Captains from SAA can expect DEC on the T7?

beechbum 31st May 2018 10:31

I doubt it as they would still have to fit the requirements. But there are plenty of A330/A340 that fit the bill!

777boyindubai 31st May 2018 10:41

Looks like the Ts and Cs on offer to the SAA boys are better than current EK guys.....

Go figure

GillEx737 31st May 2018 11:25

I've heard conflicting reports. I think we should wait until the chat comes back from the roadshows to see what is actually on offer, just before anyone jumps the gun and starts declaring mutiny as usual :rolleyes:

RK Blue sky 31st May 2018 11:51


Originally Posted by GillEx737 (Post 10161444)
I've heard conflicting reports. I think we should wait until the chat comes back from the roadshows to see what is actually on offer, just before anyone jumps the gun and starts declaring mutiny as usual :rolleyes:


Why should we wait Gil. We all know the history of this lousy outfit and what they do it’s pilots. It’s never ever good. what other airline is parking 18% of its fleet because no one want to fly for them?
It all comes down to treatment and Emirates doesn’t provide it. Get ready. There’s plenty more to come.

thatwasclose 31st May 2018 15:15

But blue sky ... then why are you still here ? I don’t want to come across as rude and messages sometimes can without meaning to be . But if you have such little trust and like for the company you work for , and there are other options out there , why not take them ?

Ghost_Rider737 31st May 2018 16:45

The pay is exactly the same as advertised on the EK website.

Jack D 31st May 2018 16:55


Originally Posted by Ghost_Rider737 (Post 10161638)
The pay is exactly the same as advertised on the EK website.

they are offering an enhanced package for more experienced pilots, but I think that’s already the case?
Salary numbers in the promotional material are somewhat inflated by the use of corporate spin . typical rosters are shown which were probably reasonably representative 8 years or so ago not now .

Joker11 31st May 2018 17:35

South Africans love Dubai. So they will jump onto this opportunity.

Jack D 31st May 2018 18:26


Originally Posted by Joker11 (Post 10161662)
South Africans love Dubai. So they will jump onto this opportunity.

A rather sweeping statement don’t you think ?

Ghost_Rider737 31st May 2018 18:52

I thought everyone loves doobai :}
Sky scrapers , world class shopping , sunshine year-round , flying big jets.......free housing , free schooling ....guys com'on , sounds like Utopia.

ekpilot 31st May 2018 19:34

What about the level of pollution? Just off the roof these days. Worst than China.

777-200LR 31st May 2018 19:47

I’m not sure ‘jump onto this opportunity’ would be the words I would use. Are we forgetting the Qantas agreement? The one that in many ways did not live up to potential. Many of the guys left early and the last few will leave eventually. Are you going to tell the Safas they can’t have their twice weekly bbqs with all their good meats and wines? Which by the way, one is now banned and the other will cost an arm an a leg to bring to DXB.

allaru 1st Jun 2018 03:59

Wonder how the SA pilots union would feel if it were the other way around....I'm sure we would be welcome with open arms.

parabellum 1st Jun 2018 07:08

Back in 1991/2 SAA had a very similar agreement with Singapore Airlines, to assist in the expanding B744 fleet, serve their contracted time with SQ then return to SA, captains and FOs.

bogey 1st Jun 2018 07:11

I wonder if the SAA hopefuls are aware of the following:
In March 2020, South Africans, no matter where they are domiciled will start paying tax to the South African Revenue Service at the nominal rate.
So effectively 45% of their package will be “trimmed”, although there is a dispensation on tax-free earnings for the first R 1,000,000 in the current tax year. (Currently approx. Aed 290,000)
It’s been legislated and will be enforced by the South African Government. No way around it I’m afraid, as banking secrecy is a thing of the past.

gofor 1st Jun 2018 07:27


Originally Posted by Ghost_Rider737 (Post 10161638)
The pay is exactly the same as advertised on the EK website.

Is there no value in the 77F commuting contract that is penned in the letter of intent?

seven3seven 1st Jun 2018 07:40

I'm by far a management supporter, but what exactly is the issue here?

There is nothing being offered that isn't already offered to people of other nationalities. DEC / Enhanced package etc.

Was there a similar reaction when the Qantas boys came here on LWOP?

A lot of people complain with the rosters and the hours they do, yet as soon as recruitment try and get more pilots which will eventually HOPEFULLY have some impact on our rosters, people still complain!

Now.... back in my hole before people start calling me Harry!

acryingshame 1st Jun 2018 08:09

Seven3seven
 

Originally Posted by seven3seven (Post 10162104)
I'm by far a management supporter, but what exactly is the issue here?

There is nothing being offered that isn't already offered to people of other nationalities. DEC / Enhanced package etc.

Was there a similar reaction when the Qantas boys came here on LWOP?

A lot of people complain with the rosters and the hours they do, yet as soon as recruitment try and get more pilots which will eventually HOPEFULLY have some impact on our rosters, people still complain!

Now.... back in my hole before people start calling me Harry!

I think the issue is that instead of our substandard overpaid management comming up with a proper, long term, holistic solution to our shortage, they have as usual, endorsed a short term opportunistic stopgap to distract from their epic failure to take his once magnificent airline into the 21 centrury.



SOPS 1st Jun 2018 08:20


Originally Posted by gofor (Post 10162093)
Is there no value in the 77F commuting contract that is penned in the letter of intent?

It is NOT a commuting contract!!


BalusKaptan 1st Jun 2018 14:24

Yes, South Africans may love Dubai....but.....they love South Africa more.
History shows that no matter what the contract, if SAA want their pilots back prior to their EK contract finish then they will be gone. Just ask SQ. Similar deal there in the mid nineties and when SAA said 'time to come home' they left with less than 7 days notice.

gb346 1st Jun 2018 16:23

I am not an Emirates pilot but personally feel that it doesn't matter where the pilots come from, there should be no preferential treatment for any select group, especially not accelerated commands when there are already Emirates pilots ready for upgrade. If I was an SAA pilot now and in their shoes, I'd be more concerned about not having a company to go back to after the end of the contract. If SAA is still in the same shape as it is now and/or the company has "shrunk into profit" and their fleet has shrunk from its current size, what guarantees are there that they would be taken back? I know there would be a written contract but having a bucket full of expensive pilots returning to SAA and pushing up the salary bill for the airline may not be that simple.

SOPS 1st Jun 2018 17:20


Originally Posted by BalusKaptan (Post 10162440)
Yes, South Africans may love Dubai....but.....they love South Africa more.
History shows that no matter what the contract, if SAA want their pilots back prior to their EK contract finish then they will be gone. Just ask SQ. Similar deal there in the mid nineties and when SAA said 'time to come home' they left with less than 7 days notice.

Remember EK works on the principal...' once we have them in Dubai..they are trapped..and we can do to them what we feel like" and " if you dont like it, leave"......hang on, some who did not like it left...and now the need SAA to save the day Buyer Beware. SAA guys....your EK journey will not be pleasant.....enjoy your 95 plus hours a month.

Dropp the Pilot 1st Jun 2018 22:37

Or they could ask someone who actually works there.

Neither retirement nor a train set has distracted you sufficiently. Maybe you should come back?

mmmbop 1st Jun 2018 22:54

I find it funny that SOPS comments are never bitter and twisted, yet Dropp's frequently are, and frequently directed at SOPS. Lifestyle envy Dropp? Or just directing your undiagnosed anger issues at him? I too, enjoy walking the dogs on the beach. I also enjoy the fresh air associated with it, another little thing Dubai doesn't have. ( It is worse than China. Fact, but hidden by Middle East authority figures.) And yep, like SOPS I frequent the Middle East Forum to see what's happening where I spent a substantial period of my life. That troubles you? Well, that's your problem.

LHR Rain 2nd Jun 2018 03:02


Originally Posted by seven3seven (Post 10162104)
I'm by far a management supporter, but what exactly is the issue here?


Now.... back in my hole before people start calling me Harry!

With everything going on and being done to us how can you be a management supporter?
Please back to your hole and I hope you don’t email the Muppets telling them how great it is here.

bigdaviet 2nd Jun 2018 06:36

I think he meant he’s far from a management supporter...

Fuzuma 2nd Jun 2018 09:12


Originally Posted by Bogey
I wonder if the SAA hopefuls are aware of the following:
In March 2020, South Africans, no matter where they are domiciled will start paying tax to the South African Revenue Service at the nominal rate.
So effectively 45% of their package will be “trimmed”, although there is a dispensation on tax-free earnings for the first R 1,000,000 in the current tax year. (Currently approx. Aed 290,000)
It’s been legislated and will be enforced by the South African Government. No way around it I’m afraid, as banking secrecy is a thing of the past.

You’re not quite correct, there are a few options available, in fact EK arranged a few meetings for people possibly affected by the new law, where some clever financial companies explained those options. So there shouldn’t be any reason to base a decision on moving to Dubai regarding the tax laws.

skyvan 2nd Jun 2018 09:40


Originally Posted by Fuzuma (Post 10163073)


You’re not quite correct, there are a few options available, in fact EK arranged a few meetings for people possibly affected by the new law, where some clever financial companies explained those options. So there shouldn’t be any reason to base a decision on moving to Dubai regarding the tax laws.

Care to share some of those options with the rest of us? I am scrambling a bit to shield my less than awesome income from the Iron and Steel people back home.

FACT Pilot 2nd Jun 2018 16:07

Is EK "poaching" crew or are they entering into an agreement with SAA to make use of their crew? I could be wrong but I’m sure SAA has done this in the past and it avoids the crew from losing their positions/seniority at the company.Also I see both sides to the complaints above. Both parties want to kill a bird but there are two ways of doing it. A) Temporary SAA crew B) Sort out the daily issues and frustrations and this would prevent crew from leaving in the masses. We all want to prevent “crisis management” because it is very frustrating for our Type A personalities so that’s why B) makes more sense to us whilst A) is a further frustration

givemewings 2nd Jun 2018 17:19

mmmbop, +1. It's not that life doesn't distract SOPS enough, it's that he now actually has leisure time that doesn't need to be spent sleeping just to recover enough to go back to the grind. As do all of us who have left.

I work multiple jobs at the moment (til I get my groove back- allows me some flexibility to spend time with my family) yet somehow I still have time for other stuff. Probably because I am no longer a shuffling member of the EK walking dead...!

Sorry for the drift... SAA guys won't help the rosters, they'll thrash them just as hard. And by the time they're up and running, more of you will have left so more unit- I mean replacements- will be needed.

Same goes for CC. Lots of recruitment but they're still leaving. Even the rejects are being called back a week ir two later and asked if they're still interested

KippaLippa 2nd Jun 2018 21:40


Originally Posted by givemewings (Post 10163343)
Even the rejects are being called back a week ir two later and asked if they're still interested

'this a fact?

KL

Emma Royds 2nd Jun 2018 21:51

Should SAA ever be wound up and a SAA Mk II be created, due to the SA government choosing to refuse to underwrite continuing losses with the current operation, what degree of SA union protection would any SAA secondees to EK receive in the years ahead? Perhaps coming to EK could be a one way ticket, if SAA in its current form ceases to exist in the next 5 years and the union sell out any SAAers at EK?

Just a thought...

GillEx737 3rd Jun 2018 05:35

I've been told the accelerated command wasn't agreed and is unlikely to happen - and by someone who is not any more keen on things than we are. And I am the same - not a management lover by any means but come on...if SAA are offering deals to their pilots and to us as part of an agreement why the hell wouldn't EK make the most of it? Nothing i've read shows anything being offered that we don't already have. How are they going to take notice of us talking about stress and fatigue when we're sitting on here being wound up by guys who aren't even with us anymore? It's just not bloody worth it.

And before everyone starts lining up their pitchforks - there are a million things wrong with EK right now. I know that, I feel it every day. But why allow ourselves to be dragged down further by the apparent happy chappies who have left and STILL can't just let it go? I don't know how happy those walks on the beach would be driven by all-consuming bitterness and desperation to know all that is happening - it's like there is a fear of missing out on the opportunity to gloat to everyone. How happy can you really be?

givemewings 3rd Jun 2018 05:53

Yes Kippa 2 applicants who got the rejected email after the final interview then got emails a couple weeks later asking if they were still interested and to state the date they were available. They told me this and apparently there were more. Note that I did mention they were CC, in case you missed that bit

glofish 3rd Jun 2018 05:56

It's another blood bottle into the body riddled by many metastases already. Just prolongation of a life that is not worth living if not treated by a radical chemotherapy.
The cancer is greed, stubbornly stupid face saving of delusions of grandeur and trumpesque lying, lying, lying .....

Make no mistake, we welcome all SAA friends alleviating our burden. But we will not stop telling how it effectively is in the pit.

Royston Vasey 3rd Jun 2018 06:25

Emma R is spot on.

You might not be able to go back at all; if you're in pilot excess capacity now, how do you think that SAA will expand in 5yrs into a size that they can accept you back.
You'll be welcomed here with open arms by everyone, especially the guys that 'do the real work', be sure it's a Return Ticket that you're buying.

caveat emptor....

Fuzuma 3rd Jun 2018 08:39


Originally Posted by skyvan
Care to share some of those options with the rest of us? I am scrambling a bit to shield my less than awesome income from the Iron and Steel people back home

Yes sure, some of the options put forward were......if you are fortunate enough to hold a second passport, then apparently there’s a fairly straightforward process to go through to relinquish your South African passport, thereby absolving yourself of any attachment to a SA passport and therefore not being forced to pay tax when the law becomes effective.
Another option is to go ahead and “purchase” a second passport, and once issued go back and complete option one.
Another option proposed, was to go through a process called Financial Emmigration.....a fairly lengthy and potentially expensive exercise, but still cheaper than giving nearly half your salary to the ANC.

If memory serves me correctly, the company who gave the presentation was a UK based company, run and managed by SA expats who once upon a time were working at SARS and tax firms in Cape Town..... Sable International.

Hope that helps


All times are GMT. The time now is 13:05.


Copyright © 2018 MH Sub I, LLC dba Internet Brands. All rights reserved. Use of this site indicates your consent to the Terms of Use.