Emirates - Trying to understand the financial Equation
 

Like all of us I’m trying to get a head, however, tough times for everyone. Before I consider this I need to gather financial facts and determine if its smart from an accounting standpoint. Fellow Pilots I’m flying a business jet making 120k Canadian a year. Decent lifestyle, however, the major cities including a one-hour drive from the downtown core isn’t cheap. Rent has also sky rocketed. Anyways lets jump right into this….The cost of living as a single guy living downtown (condo) with a mortgage includes the following payments…Fixed monthly ( all numbers are Canadian)
Mortgage 1750.00 month
Maintence fees 500.00 month
Property tax 220.00 month
Electiricity 120.00
Cable/internet – 175.00 (lets consider this fixed)Cell 150.00 (and this is a good month – Canadians providers are terrible)
Total Fixed - 2915
Variable monthlyCar payments – 500.00
Car insurance – 200.00
Fuel – 225.00Food – 650.00 ( this may seem high for a single guy. Lets assume this includes date money too)Total Variable 1575.00 Grand Total Fixed and Variable 4490.00At 120,000k a year which is about average for a challenger captain in Canada that equates to 10,000 gross per month. The government takes 4000.00 which leaves me with 6000.00 per month. Take my fixed and variable expenses and voila I have 1510.00 left over. No retirement, no shopping, maintenance for a car …bla bla bla. Having a mortgage is the cheaper route if you can gather the down payment considering rent these days in about 2500.00 to 2800.00 a month. Now it’s your turn. To my understanding first officer salary is 30,125 which equates to 8200.00ish. You get 14325 for housing - 3800.00usd. So, your fixed cost would be what? House is taken care of right? If not how much is being added on top of the allowance? Please don’t say it depends where you live. The whole “depends where you live “applies to everywhere and anywhere and not just the middle east. I noticed condos beside the Marina for less than what EK grants. Does that seem accurate? Yes I’m aware rent can be raised. It happens here too. So for the single people or even ones with partners can we assume rent is free?Emirates fixed cost
Rent free? (therefore no other fees involved right?)
Electricity for the month?
Cable/internet?
Cell phone?

Emirates VariableCar ( don’t want to know the payment. Just curious if I could use a taxi service for less than a 500.00 a month?) Lets say I’m living downtown.
Car Insurance – Expensive??
Gas - ??
Food? ( dinners in Toronto for two - about 150.00 if your doing drinking as well. A glass of wine at a fancy establishing is about 18.00. Similar to Dubai?If a first officer is making 8,200, has no rent, property tax, maintenance fees to pay that leaves the following….car, gas, internet, tv, insurance for a car, electricity, cell phone and food. Let’s just pretend for one second and picture all the above expenses costing 3,000. That leaves you with 5,000 at the month end. On that saving plan is 60,000 a year realistic to nest away? Is there anything I should be made aware of? What am I not accounting for? Making 120k in Canada is okay money, however, that salary gives you a net profit of 6000.00 a month. Then comes paying for the house which chews up a lot. Anyways I’m curious what insight you can bring. I don’t want to underestimate this by any means . Thank you!

what you are not accounting for is your sanity...

try to read some of the other threads.. and your estimates of savings have many flaws.. there are many other expenses in Dubai that you have no idea of. That you will realize when you are actually arrive here and start living .. hard to explain in a single post..

my suggestion.. come for interview .. experience Dubai.. ask around .. see how you feel then..

you are single now.. but do u intend to get married and have kids at some point ?? do u even know what expense kids are in Dubai..?

Is it possible to exclude sanity and emotion from this thread? I honestly dont know the expenses and that's why I came here. I was hoping to get some information. A little goes a long way! Please tell me what am I missing? I pay 48,000 a year in tax at 120K. That`s 40 percent of my pay check. I would consider that a big expense right? In addition my `roof over my head` expense that comes with no allowances cannot be avoided. I need somewhere to live right? Tax and house payments are the two biggest expenses which you dont get dinged on. Again, I`m not referencing working conditions or scheduling. Strictly accounting.

As for kids? I`m a one man band. I have no one to worry about but myself. Thanks for responding M-Monk. I appreciate any information you can give.

Dude,
all the pilots who can leave, leave. There is an exodus going on, why do you think EK has planes grounded? Do you think your lifestyle will be better than everybody else's? If you dont come from a 3rd world country dont do it.
Anyway can't wait to read your posts here in a few years how bad EK is and that it was your worst decision ever.

Thank you for the information. Now I fully understand the associated expenses and take home pay. Much better picture. Now i need to ask myself if I want to sell my soul for that kind of money. That's a conversation between my body and brain at the bar tonight.

Hi Dude,

As has been said before, the problem is with the hidden taxes/fees and there are just so so many of those here. Like you, I did research and a complete budget before I came here but you can never estimate everything. Examples are the VAT, it is only 5% yes but many places added much more than that. There are fees on every government transaction. Internet is very expensive, then they block skype + vpn and charge 100 aed/mo to use it again. Starting to form a picture? The gap is closing very quickly here it is worrying, and if I were you I would be VERY VERY careful about coming here because EK only gave 3% pay rise despite all the price rises in last 12 months and they made over 4bn AED profit. It is a huge red flag!!!!!! Money is ok yes but only if you sit at home and don't do anything. Start going out in Dubai and having brunches and whatever else people do here, it disappears REALLY FAST!!!!

PM me if you want specific numbers for rents, bills etc I can help you but I won't post them publicly

Not sure which department you work for dustyflightdeck, but I certainly didn't get a 3% pay rise this year.

As an EK 777 captain, when I fly 900 hours again this year, my pay rise works out at 281.25 dhs per month.

True, more like 3% pay cut!

I'd come for an interview and check it out. Canada is great but a financial drain.
Qatar is the last place I'd go due to the dictator, lifestyle and constraints. Dubai is still the place to be in the ME.
You're right about being single and collecting the allowance bonus. Current rents are well below the allowance if you're single. You'll def make double what your making now with the canadian tax grab.

Crewdude,

Your numbers are about right. 2 flaws. You have not taken into account the provident fund. No clue how much an junior FO takes but my guess is you save another CAD$1200 a month on top of it. The other flaw is that I think you under estimate the cost of food ( at home or outside) in Dubai. Its quite expensive, think New York/Londen.

Yes there are some hidden fees here and there, but we are talking dirhams here. Always found it a bit embarrassing hearing guys bitching about there once a year CAD$60 liquor permit while clearing CAD$25.000 a month.

Your CAD$500 for Ubers and taxis is enough. I would recommend a car, you will not regret during the summer!! You pick em up dirt cheap over here. Insurance and petrol compared to back home is cheap. For your cheap leisure take the EPC membership. Dirt cheap , access to the best gyms, beachclubs, tennis, squash, pools, golf in DXB.

The key is to stay single!!!!!!!!!!!!!!! I came with a family in tow, but that was 13 years ago. Would not recommend that anymore.
Stay 7 years, bond gone, provident fund in the pocket, take the savings and start again back home in a junior position but with a nice pension fund in the back pocket, and a Nice expat experience.

Forget about Qatar. Its a **** hole. It will only work for young single Europeans who do a bit of commuting to europe. To big of a distance for you.

Leaving emotion out, I agree that you should come for interview and check things out. Let a few people know when you are here and I am sure a few would meet you and chat over a beer or two.

Putting emotion back in, you definitely need to read some of the other EK posts. I was always a "rah rah" EK and Dubai guy. Not so much for some time now.

60k per year in savings? Tough. Very tough. I know of an FO who lives in EK accommodation with a wife and 3 kids and he manages to save $3300 us per month.

Very true. Thats why I stay single.

Yep, USD20K + in HK or Shanghai should be perfectly doable. Tax rate around 15% and housing will obviously cost you USD4000 per month perhaps but with this level of income that's pretty acceptable. Lots of companies desperate for experienced Challenger / Falcon / Gulfstream / GLEX pilots in Asia at the moment.

CP

Why? Using 15,000+ aed of the basic salary to live on each month is plenty. Seems quite doable if you are disciplined.

Doable but you need to be very + very + very disciplined with lots limitations: no brunches, no dinner out, no travels ... and your wife and family needs to apply them as well ...
Very hard with a family + kids on a single income.
You can save but not that amount.
I think 1,800 - 2,000$ is more realistic on an FO salary.

Buy ONE car and buy it used off one of the many expats that are leaving. You can get GREAT vehicles for next to nothing! You get driven to work so avoid the second car. Furnish your place via Dubizzle etc as well. Lots of beautiful furniture for sale (again expats leaving) that is almost new. Make a plan and stick to it. But if you think you are going to move to DXB and enjoy the high life AND save you are sadly mistaken. It is a VERY expensive place if you want to play. You can still enjoy life and have some fun but, like back home, you have to be reasonable. Too many come here, buy two cars, a motorbike or boat (or both), have wives who spend lavishly etc etc. Ten years later and they still have nothing to show for it.

You can also write off the first year in terms of savings - moving and setting up is expensive.

It was good when the upgrades were 3-4 years. Now at over 5 years and climbing it becomes far less of a draw to come to EK. Plan on 7 years to the upgrade and you won't be disappointed. If you believe the hype and base your finances on a 4 year upgrade you'll be sorely disappointed.

I'm confused? Is there a 3 percent increase every year?

Thanks for your response! So how does the provident fund work? To my understanding 5 percent off your paycheck? Cant touch that money for how long? Where does that money get invested? Is there interest being applied to that? Bond is 7 years?

I'm single now. I assume there wouldn't be any time to date?? My guess days off are spent catching up or resting.

I spent a week in Qatar 3 years ago. Boss had a trip there. I enjoyed my time, however, I was also staying at the 4 seasons where he was sleeping. It was a nice spot, but, I realize that's not reality. Tell me why Qatar not the place to be?

Again, thank you!!

Good afternoon from CYYZ

I`m starting to take some interest in Asia. As for the Corporate operators they want time on gulfstream 450/550/650 or a Global. I have a G4 rating which they dont care for. The G450 is a new course with new screens so an initial type rating will be required. Seems like Hong Kong Airlines is expanding.

Thank you. All great points. Everything noted too. It`s a tough decision. Still based on my salary, which is considered to be okay, we are heavily taxed. Like I said earlier, at 120k I pay 48k to the government. That's a big percentage then plus need to cover the roof too. The saving plan that I am on now isn`t the strongest.

Hello from CYYZ

I was really hoping to put 3,500 away. If that's not doable not sure i can be convinced by myself. Dont know why I would assume its manageable tho?? Yes I'm aware of the going out life. Its the same everywhere. But at a salary of 7,000k usd (lets use this number to be conservative) you would think after a car payment, insurance, gas, bla bla bla bla you could count on that everywhere month???

Fellow Pilots, thanks for all this amazing information. Please keep in coming. You guys are awesome.

Yes, but I doubt a new hire today would see the same movement. I certainly wouldn't make a financial plan and decision based on it.

You can save 3,500$ monthly provided you are single or with a family on a strict budget. Don't get me wrong. Most probably you will see that saving only after the first few months (furnitures, car, etc...)

Company accommodations or your renting off site?

It will take you about a day to realise here that there is more to life than money! Trying flying through the night... and then on arrival at your company provided accommodation the barrage of jack hammering kicks off at 530am directly outside your bedroom, and if you're not prepared to purchase property here in Dubai there is nothing you can do about it!!! ... and the company is not interested!!! my bags are being packed as we speak!!!