1500 ft/min 1000 ft to level off
 

Hey all

Do any of you have specific reference to the requirement to use 1500 ft per min in the last 1000 ft? AIP reference number? FAA/ICAO? Most of the info I have is a recommendation only. I need something a bit more solid than that. ICAO DOC 7030 mentions it, but that's not UAE specific. The Jepp ATC pages also mention it on PG 286, 3.3. Anything more for UAE/Europe/USA?

Thanks in advance!

Dog

Nope, not a requirement.
Some AIPs require it if traffic conflict possible, but don't know of many that mandate it as SOP.
Think they used to call it airmanship, but we just follow the book these days, it seems.

A suggestion from EUROCONTROL!

"Aircraft Operators: Where feasible, operational procedures should be implemented requiring a vertical rate <1500 fpm in the last 1000 ft from a cleared altitude."

https://www.eurocontrol.int/sites/de...disclaimer.pdf

Check out the FIR notams for Bangkok.

1500 ft/min 1000 ft to level off
 

While maybe not required, in practice, it did seem to reduce the number of unnecessary TA/RA's I used to get.

Mandated in UK airspace - see LIDO CRARs

Discouraged by ICAO unless there is traffic. See Doc 8168. If you research the historical versions, you'll see that the paragraph saying "do not mandate it for each and every level-off" has grown to 2 pages long explanation.

The latest Eurocontrol ACAS bulletins since about No. 13 started to deliberaltely misinterpret ICAO on this, Eurocontrol not to be trusted. KPI hunts and professionalism often do not mix.

Surely it's not ' using 1500' descent 1000 to level off ' , it's using LESS than 1500' to level off ?

NOT MANDATED by ANY agency in the world.
Recommended by quite a few though. A TA/RA issue obviously.
I would surely consider using it with a light T7 and changing levels say in Trans Atlantic airspace etc.
Other than that I see it to be frugal and very very distracting if used in terminal airspace with EVERY level(or two) change. Not practical either.
Just my opinion.

Bored sitting in a hotel !
Agree with King
LIDO says should.
ICAO say should and the
Ozzies say should

FCOM has operational recommendation as well...

Is it a technique or is it more for my benefit than yours...?!

just an observation (maybe a rant...whatever)

but when I see a guy climb 2000' using VNAV after 2,3,5 hours of those GE's just purring along whilst we're somewhere remote, All I visualize in my chick-pea mind is that valve, duct junction, elbow bend in some far corner of the engine nacelle deciding Yup...this is when I'm gonna blow.

Why impose that roar in the crc, cabin, etc when a little VS climb keeps everything so tidy.....

Am I the only one?

Turtle,

You're not the only one who uses V/S instead of VNAV for small altitude changes.

For some reason, VNAV, unlike FL CHG, doesn't have the logic to keep the auto throttles from immediately going the CLB power when there is 2000 ft or less of a level change.

I never understood why.

It never ceases to amaze me why on earth so many folks rely on open climb/Descent (Airbus) FLC/Vnav ( Boeing ) and are actually trained to do so for minor vertical profiling.

Most specifically in Airbus chasing a exact speed all over the sky, watching V/S go from 600' to 2600' per min and back again, engines spooling up and down.

Fly the wing pitch and power... simple.

Agh jimmy-

In airbus open descent gives you idle.

Open climb gives you climb thrust.

If you use v/s per climb you will get thrust variations to maintain the roc. Where as open climb sets climb thrust and leaves it there. Just like open descent sets idle thrust and leaves it there.

Yes quite are correct; I stand corrected open descent will maintain idle and make at time wild V/S adjustments to maintain such, open climb the same. You can set selected speed for what you want, idle or climb. For a climb using selected speed, or managed to not necessarily going into a thrust climb set or conversely idle in decent using V/S.

Example: area controller London giving small altitude changes climg or descend by 1 or 2 thousand foot increments, open climb/descent is shear misery. Even in a long climb or decent I find it poor airmanship; as you go though wind density and temperatures change to sit there and accept large variations in V/S.

Do we need authorities written recommendations to avoid using common sense? :ugh::ugh:
ICAO I Care About Others
Don't be robot pilots!!!

I think at EK yes! I'm sure there are some inexperienced TRI's quoting this are mandatory .

In TCAP we trust :}