Middle East Doubt
 

Hello.
Iam from Briazil. i've bem flying in a Major Airline since 2008. Here we are used to Fly from 65 to 85 hours/ month, with 8 days off, this is for Domestic flights.
This is normal here, right now they change the regulations to 9 days off for Domestic and 10 days for internacional flights.
I've been thing to apply to EK or Ethihad, but I read some coments here about middle East companys and i am a little worry about career progress and the company's support, like medical, school, house and any other things.
Any comemt guys?

Sorry, can't help, nothing on Pprune regarding the ME carriers. :ugh:

AGR 98

Firstly welcome too the Middle East forum.

Secondly please take no notice what so ever of Harry the cod.

Thirdly as I see it if you can write in English too that standard as you did. Clearly your English isn't really a problem. You would fit in just fine.

Harry are you that difficult too fly with as well. Give the kid a break. Lighten up

Hi AGR98...

Brazilian here too, but as I believe all posts here in this forum must be in english, I'll stick to it.

Recently I had to turn down an Offer in one of the big 3 in the ME. I can tell you that I don't regret about my choice so far.

First of all, take a plane and go there to know the place ! There's no free lunch I can tell you upfront. Things here in Brazil are really going south, but this is our country and even with some disagreeing from my point of view, we have rights here, not to say that this is the place where our family and friends are.

You gotta agree that there were some recent changes in our regulations for the better (You probably have read the last collective agreement between pilots and companies, right ?) and we're a few miles of changing our professional law, which will definitely improve our quality of life and reduce the fatigue.

I know that the money is getting shorter and shorter, that the upscaling violence and countless political scandals are getting on our nerves and everything else, but, for me, this wasn't enough for making this move.

REMEMBER: for us here, in brazil, this is kind of a path without return. I don't know your position, but if you're a FO, and decide to go back, you will struggle to become a captain here one day after losing your number on the list. If you're a captain, you know pretty well that you better forget about flying in one of the major companies in that seat again. Things change and have changed, that's right, but I don't see any great movement in the foreseeable future that would create a different scenario. One thing is to leave jobless, and another completely different thing is to quit your job here and move elsewhere.

For me, knowing that I would have to stay abroad for the next 25 yrs or so was really tough. I hated to say no for such a great opportunity in my career, but this was a personal choice. I know I'll never be the professional that I would if I had chosen to go to the ME, but life is made of choices right ? I did mine for the next few years.

One thing else: don't think only about the good salaries paid in the ME. Many of the guys here on pprune say that they can't save all that much. You will earn big money, but you also will have to spend some good money to make your life worth there.

By the way, I'm not in the mood to look over this text for mistakes, so, please, excuse any language errors. If a coffee here in Guarulhos would pay for them, it's on me, ok ?

All the best...

Very Helpfull.
The problem here is the future of my Family. The violence is horrible we are always worried.
But you are right, the law is about to chance, We can espect a better future.
I really don't know what to do, that's one of the reasons i am on this forum.
Your statment was excellent.
Best regards

AGR,

Are you a captain or FO? There are other (better?) options besides the middle east.

I am A320 FO.

One thing about Dubai, you can walk anywhere at all hours of the day and night and never have to worry about street crime.

You certainly can't do that here in Miami or Fort Lauderdale!!:{

If Brazil is worse, I can sure sympathize with you guys.

BTW, my friends laugh at my English. It's because I was brought up in SE Ohio and have a dialect which is far far removed from the King's English.

It's much, much worse.

I have many friends who "would kill" for a chance of living in Fort Lauderdale... Actually this is what many dream of after retiring, buying a house in Florida and never go any further south of the Keys.

True story.

Wannabe, have you tried walking in summer? You might not get shot but you'll probably die of thirst on the way.

From the air-conditioned hotel, I take an air-conditioned taxi to an air-conditioned mall and go skiing.:D

Reverse order to get back.

Kind of the same routine in Ft Lauderdale but without the skiing option.

Moderator

I'm curious to know why you felt it necessary to remove my post? The point that a certain standard of English is required to pass the EK selection is a valid one, as was my reference to a specific Country being excluded from the recruitment process for a limited time due to language difficulties during training with a commensurate higher fail rate. That's all fact, not opinion.

I accept that written English grammar, spelling and punctuation can be very different to spoken competency, but ultimately no matter how good a pilot you are, if you can't communicate with your mate next to you, you might as well forget it.

Last time I went to work, it was a multi crew operation, not single crew!

Harry

His English is, in fact, fine, with few typo errors.

Anyway, he asked the question about the company, not about his language competencies, so it's just disrespectful, offensive and arrogant to give him the lecture about his knowledge of English.

You always speak with people in that manner, Harry. I am glad your post is deleted.

"I accept that written English grammar, spelling and punctuation can be very different to spoken competency, but ultimately no matter how good a pilot you are, if you can't communicate with your mate next to you, you might as well forget it."

Pathetic! :mad:

I think everyone on here understood what the OP was saying, even though it wasn't completely grammatically correct. It was clear enough to me, and if he were sitting next to me in the cockpit the way he wrote it, I would have no problems with it at all. As you well know, there are controllers all over the world who are WAY worse at English than this guy. Give him a break! His "ICAO" English is fine.

Nikita81

It's a shame that the original post was removed as if you'd taken the time to actually read it properly, you might have seen that it was not addressed directly to AGR98 at all. It was a response to another poster defending a comment on the quality of English used in a post. Again, ignorance on your part for jumping in on the attack without obtaining the facts first!

esignfly

This guy isn't applying for a job as an ATC controller. He's applying to an Airline that requires a minimum standard of English.

Captain Partzee

Pathetic? Maybe, but having seen the devastating effects that a failure can have on an individual, having brought over his family, sold their house, left his job and removed their children from school, all because his communication let him down, then so be it. And by the way, people have to be able to read and write it too. The tech log, Captain's Special Report, Voyage Report and every other report is completed in English, not Portuguese!

Harry

I've read your post and I left a comment (also deleted). Why do you insist on this? All of our comments were deleted, it's just not welcoming and it's really offensive to discuss someone's language skills, especially when many of us are not native speakers. We have to be ashamed for not speaking English as well as native speakers do? Of course we are going to make a mistake here and there, the important thing is that native speakers can understand us. It's not the first time that people here mock on someone's English language skills.

I, at times, have great difficulty understanding London Control or Gatwick Approach. I wish they would speak English.:*

This is from a U.S. guy, raised in Ohio and schooled at Dayton, the birthplace of Aviation.

I'm sure the above said controllers have equal difficulty understanding me.

For that matter, I can't understand either Bostonian's or New Yorker's if they speak too fast.

Kennedy tower is the worst!! They speak faster than I can think.

"Pathetic? Maybe, but having seen the devastating effects that a failure can have on an individual, having brought over his family, sold their house, left his job and removed their children from school, all because his communication let him down, then so be it. And by the way, people have to be able to read and write it too. The tech log, Captain's Special Report, Voyage Report and every other report is completed in English, not Portuguese!"

Again: PATHETIC! :mad:

Quite interesting that so many are getting their knickers in a twist over this. Correct me if I'm wrong but anyone wishing to join EK needs to speak English to an acceptable standard, right? We're not tested on reading and writing but often the two are linked. Either way, let the recruiters decide what constitutes acceptable skill levels during their interview over the phone. The regulator can then decide what grade to give those individuals, not us.

Either way, effective communications rely on a clear understanding of the spoken language, whatever that may be. Whether we like it or not, English is the one chosen for this career! Those that think it's not that important as long as we 'can muddle through a basic understanding' have obviously not spent time in a multicultural environment, especially one such as Dubai. Shop assistants, taxi drivers, waitress and bank clerks. Yes, they all speak English.......

Many, many aviation accidents have been caused by poor communications. If it means Raski, that someone corrects you because they don't understand, then so be it. Rather clarify and correct than make assumptions because you weren't clear!