INSANITY
 

At a social occasion recently I watched two colleagues on 2 different fleets discussing their roster. Both doing 90 block hours give or take a few minutes. One delighted with how much time off he had and the other decidedly distressed facing yet another roster of 8 days off with multiple night turns while trying to coordinate the various things life requires in Dubai in the coming month. He had visibly aged since I last saw him and was into productivity for the 5th consecutive month with leave still some way off.

I’ve been somewhat vague to protect the identity of the individuals but the scenario is common enough.

As the company sees block hours as a measure of both remuneration and more importantly fatigue there is clearly something wrong.

When one examines the Duty Hours each was doing the anomaly is obvious. The former had Duty Hours of around 100 while the latter was closer to 150.

So to summarize the one pilot was working 50% harder than the other, and for this he was rewarded with less rest, days off etc. Looking a little deeper there were no opportunities for CRC rest and few for in-flight seat rest. The former was looking at about 30 hours of his 90 in a bunk. It’s illogical and insane to me. Shouldn’t the bloke working harder have more rest?

The bottom line is that the period before a flight is viewed as non productive and irrelevant to the fatigue process. It’s practically impossible to hit a duty time limitation so it has no effect on limiting the fatigue. You’d have to work the equivalent of 8 hour days for 6 day weeks repetitively at all times of the day and night in multiple time zones. That’s not even expected of our regular routine office workers. How’s it easier for a pilot?

Likewise the time on the ground in a turnaround is not considered valued as work or considered in any meaningful sense for fatigue. And then let’s not forget the duty times themselves, which are simply illegal. Last time I looked, the check-in computer told me I had 3 minutes until briefing started which was 1 hour and 35 minutes before departure. I thought briefing was a task required by the company. I thought duty was “Any continuous period during which a crew member is required to carry out any task associated with the business of the company”. So our poor pilot of the big roster was getting even more fatigued by multiple duties where he put in an unaccounted 35 minutes. On the roster in question this totaled over 7 hours! More insanity.

Is there any attempt to redress the glaringly obvious faults? I turn to the Portal to see if perhaps the FRMS has some wisdom in this regard. This is the only page on the portal that is “Under construction” and has been for the past 4 years to the best of my knowledge. It appears irresponsible and uninformative. Can anyone actually tell me what this magic FRMS actually achieves? Roster and rest balance is clearly not in its remit.

On top of this all, simply to add insult to injury one of flights on the “poor pilots roster” was a “Variation” Duty. That’s just an excuse to break the already inadequate duty time limitation with one provision of giving him rest after the event! Let’s hope he makes it to his bed without injury..

I turn to the “General Principles of the (Flight Time Limitations) Scheme”. Perhaps this offers clarity. I note such phrases:

• “The GCAA when assessing the suitability of a planned schedule, will take into account the time allowed for pre flight duties…” – Clearly not. No one could do the required tasks to get airborne in the 1 hour scheduled. Hence the 1 hour 35 minutes allocated but not recognized.
• “The allocation of work patterns which avoid such undesirable practices as alternating day/night duties.” – Well! Poor pilot’s” roster almost looked like this was the objective!

And on and on it goes. Words, platitudes, lip service and an absent FRMS by all accounts. I feel I am living in an alternate world of a different logic. Its insanity to me.

Where is the Regulator in all this? Where is the HR department? Isn’t work, pay and time off what they are all about? Where are the doctors? They are apparently trained to recognise the cause and symptoms. I presume they put sickness against rosters and look for patterns. They will be there.

In basic terms it shouldn’t be that difficult. In most places time at work is what makes you tired and the very reason for pay. In fact we are repeatedly told the time before flight is the most critical. No distractions, it’s a busy time, drinks cards and barred dispatchers are the cure. But apparently this is not work, not tiring and not worth being paid for. It beats me. I cannot fathom how block time, a measurement for engines and airframes has somehow been translated into some measurement of how hard I work, how tired I am or how much I should be paid.

But then maybe I’m losing my marbles. Perhaps I’m fatigued.

Unfortunately 'Commercial' rules the roost. ALL else is, at best, secondary to satisfying the financial interests of the company.

Concern, regard, appreciation, and/or respect for the employee is not even on the list. We are a tool to be used until worn out then discarded.

Things will never change by any substantial measure. None of the departments you mentioned care a bit about the well being of the pilot group.

That would have to be the best post I have read in years. 10 out of 10. Harry will be along, to tell you how wrong you are. However, I assure you, you arev100% correct.

And can I suggest something? Life is short. If what you are currently doing is killing you, perhaps you should give it up.

Great post, well written and factual.

Bring on the new hires is the only way things are going to change to the turn around fleets and general conditions.

Let us just talk about a persons work rate here in the UAE, if you can see how hard the manual workers are working and the care (conditions) they they work in then a guy on the A330 or 777 has it easy (so it would be perceived). I agree that it is not right and not healthy AND not allowing for what we pilots would consider a safe operation regarding fatigue.

As SOPS's states, we clearly are happy with the terms and conditions or we wouldn't be here, I am amazed how many spaces up the seniority I have gone this year alone.

Fly safe fellow friends.

J

I'm with you SOP's, that was a brilliant post Pixy.

I too for many many years have thought the exact same thing. I used to be in a company where we did short sectors, and I worked far far harder than the Long Haul Pilots, for far less money and far less rest. You hit the nail on the head with regards to one of the busiest times in a cockpit being completely unpaid. Simply unbelievable!

I have the fortune now of being in a company and flying predominantly Long Haul. So my days off and rest are more than adequate. However, my Short Haul colleagues work far harder, always tired, yet get far less rest than I, and much less money. One could argue that after years of flying I've "done my time", but that's complete rubbish. Maybe there should be some benefit of years in the trade, but this system needs to be addressed so folks get paid Whilst in Uniform at work, not after the brakes are released. I get fed up of doing courses by my airline of "fatigue management" when they roster these poor people for ridiculous schedules. In a perfect world, there would be no need for faitigue management by pilots, but by the management to ensure it never became an issue for the crew!

Pixy, it would be absolutely great if this way of calculating work schedules, pay, and rest changed throughout the industry. It certainly needs to! Unfortunately won't happen whilst I'm still in this business. Again, great post :D

The industry is broken. Regulators and Companies conspire to keep the myth of Block Hours alive.

But the company could balance the field if they so wished. Simply base Productivity Pay on duty dime and not block time. If it was set between 110 and 120 hours Duty then many things in the company would naturally even out. It might even be “cost neutral” depending on where they put the line. Predominantly ULR rosters would work a little harder and short haul a little less. Or at least get rewarded when they worked hard. The days off, rest etc would also correct naturally as the company rostered to avoid excessive productivity payment.

My guess is they simply couldn’t care less about fatigue. Until there is an unfortunate event.

Yes, nicely put.

BUT, the only insanity is that we told you this (less grandiosely) when you were making enquiries a couple of years ago before you joined....

yet you still did.

How insane is that ?

Chin up Pixy....you joined a 92 hour joint when we told you NOT to ...now it's 88

What's the song?

"...movin' on up .."

f.

Ha ha fliion. Funny. At least I hope that was was the intention. Otherwise I think you missed the point. In short (less grandiosely) block time is irrelevant, duty time is what matters.

What's the song?

"Im so confused.."

K9.

:E

��
Tis my point...he's actually had a raise (used loosely) ...if you can call OT paid less than regular - just that.

All that is happening was advertized on here for the last few years. Anyone joining knew the template.

Not enough pilots (well there are but the Co won't pay for them ) - too many planes

It's been posted constantly ...many were told the fatigue levels can be intense

Anyway the point is for those looking and asking: "Can it really be that bad?"

The anwswer which is articulated a la Pixy is a resounding "Yes"

Caveat emptor....

Again

Too much!
 

Well done Pixy, great post!

I like Kap & SOPS and many others am on the way out. Handed in my letter recently and felt VERY comfortable in doing so. Hesitation, second thoughts?? - NONE!

This place (EK & DXB) is dangerous, toxic and in a steep decline!

It would take one day to solve your problems if you all had balls to coordinate, park the planes and show the finger. Lets say a thousand pilot...what will they do fire you all, arrest you all? Or just go buy you new Iphone and stop complaining please.

fliion wrote:
I don't work for EK but the briefest of research reveals that Pixy has been posting about EK since 2003 and clearly worked there since before then.

R.

You are indeed correct. I believe I am mixing Pixy up with a like minded name that was on here a couple of years ago.

Did a search - could not find.

When I'm wrong, I'm wrong.

I stand corrected.

Apologies Pixy.

fliion.

Furbpilot.

The answer to your question is YES.

If a thousand pilots coordinated, refused to work and then showed them the finger they would all certainly be fired, face prosecution, likely be fined, possibly jailed and definitely deported.

This place may look first world but scratch a little and below the surface some aspects can be very third world, the legal system being one of them. Many expats here have found this out after being injured, raped, robbed or even questioning the system. There are different rules for different folks. It depends where you are in the food chain. There are some shocking cases of injustice, and some expats have discovered this too late.

With a high profile demonstration like pilots downing tools, the authorities would take very severe action. It is no longer about the airline. It becomes about the whole country and to avoid anyone else getting ideas the consequences would be severe.

In fact a far less radical solution would probably be effective. If only 10-20% of our pilots simply had the stones to write to their managers in the nicest possible way, with examples, the obviously glaring disparities and inadequacies of the system, things would change. They have before.

Unfortunately most suffer from a persecution complex, and are too apathetic, too cowardly or too stupid to do so. These qualities ensure the status quo.

According to a post twelve years ago when he refers to having already been there 9 years Pixy seems eminently well qualified to post on how things have changed. The direction is one way. Pilots have become a commodity with as the textbooks say price transparency.

However the discrepancy he highlights also occurs across many airlines. Emirates A330 fleet is similar to the short haul fleet of many national carriers. With seniority people people normally have more choices.

Just to be fair there are also some benefits on the junior fleets, e.g. less jet lag more time at home, faster progression to the left seat, becoming a trainer etc.

Emirates is interesting because of its scale. Pan Am of course spanned the world, but was a much smaller airline. But even with their 'catch me if you can' lifestyle the pilots all tended to look a lot older then they were. It would be interesting to see a study of life expectancies and what effect our worsening conditions are having.

Totally agree with you Pixy.

And I suspect the 16 Capts and FOs who've resigned in the past two weeks would agree with you as well.

16 more rosters to be shared among our pilot numbers....numbers that haven't increased much at all (if any) in the past 12 months.

Big fanfare over EK receiving four shiny new jets on the same day a few weeks back. Not a squeak from the PR machine about the fact that there are no pilots to fly them.

I would think Lederhosen, in the future, someone will do a study and conclude that what you are currently being subject to, is killing you.

I think you just have no balls. And than what? Who will fly their planes?And how about international media.You might be right on the legal framework but remember there is a public opinion, and doing something like imprisoning 1000 pilots and deport them, beside being impossible , would have terrible consequences for EK image. I'm 100% sure that a pilot strike, legal or not legal would solve all your problems in one week. They count on you being all of the money only, no solidarity, macho, superman, individualist idiot breed and apparently quite righteously and profitably. Admit it.. you are just slaves.

I'm not sure how you come to that conclusion. The Variation flights regularly reach the limits. Some are planned to within 5 minutes of the extended (30 minute) limit despite the combined sector time being greater than 7 hours. Management are cute about this by saying the rule refers to a single sector, not to 2 X 4hour sectors together. The inevitable delay means discretion is required or the pilot goes home or to a different duty. Not many choose to press this point and the limit is exceeded. If this happens to your friend then he needs to stand up for himself.

Where are the doctors? Their integrity is compromised and they are relegated to attending to your minor complaints and dispensing a little SK or SKF here and there. They won't touch the larger issues.

Yes. It provides an illusion of action by demonstrating intent by the company in the area of fatigue management. But you already know this.

It's time to leave, Pixy.

Full points, though, for the standard of your written English which is light years ahead of the usual in here.

furbpilot

This has nothing to do with balls.

If you live in this part of the world, you will quickly learn that figuratively holding a gun to ones head and making a demand is not how to bring results. EK and airlines in the Middle East as a whole, will never ever be seen to have been brought to its knees by any part of their workforce. They would happily throw cash down the drain to a point in order to save face. That's what its all about in the Middle East and yes it is childish.

Lastly, the public easily forgets it's moral conscience when it comes to flying and buying most goods in fact. Such moral conscience momentarily vanishes when we reach for our credit card.

Airlines have had striking pilots and will continue to do so. The travelling public would perhaps have far less empathy for our plight here at EK, since most of the public can't see past the finely tuned PR machine and the tax free salary.

Emma is spot on the money. Any action would cause the EK PR machine into overdrive. Pilots would not stand a chance. The public would hear story's of, limos to work, luxury accomodation, tax free salarys, Saftey is the number one priority.....ra ra ra.

And the would ground the airline if they had to, anything to save face.

Furby,

Your suggestion didn't work very well in 1989.

Furbpilot

We must agree to disagree on some points. Striking is against the law. Giving anyone the finger is a Criminal Offence. Both are widely publicized. I don’t think a bunch of pilots would get special treatment and I think prosecution would be unavoidable. Nor do I think the rest of the world would have much sympathy or understanding for a group of finger raising, striking pilots.

You appear part of the problem. We are, or should be, professionals, not uneducated labour. Going straight for a strike before even attempting massive complaint through recognized channels in this place would be like ditching in preference to flying to an airfield with an engine failure. Both would result in a catastrophic and avoidable outcome.

On the issue that most of the pilots have no balls – I agree. Most complain but don’t put it down in writing. What they are scared of I don’t understand. As I said they are probably too stupid to articulate themselves or even understand the problems that affect their lives. “Root cause analysis” is a buzzword these days. It used to be common sense. But, what the heck, the whole profession is being dumbed down. Stupid people make good minions.

Pixy gets it. But then he’s probably smarter than most of the managers who themselves are dumbed down, self serving administrators, without the imagination to serve both parties. As suggested he’s probably from a different generation of pilots. Most of the company problems are relatively straightforward to address to everyone's benefit. But that level of sophistication has not caught on yet.

As for being slaves; everyone here is exploited labour. The price for the exploitation varies. But anyone who works for a big company is a slave to the machine…The 1%. It’s a global phenomenon.

After reading this, I swear I was reading about Cathay? Same story different part of the world!

:{

When it becomes irrational for you to stay ( ie the pay doesn't make up for the loss of lifestyle and health issues) , you will resign. It's pretty simple. You won't change the powers that be in DXB, so leave ( unless you'd rather stay and keep the pay) .

The Power of Labor in the Internet Age
 

As for the proposed strike. How would you know that a thousand, a hundred or even 10 colleagues were to crusade loyally with you into the great uncertainty? So many colleagues have big mouths and raisin sized balls. Won't even carry a coffee by the FDM. Do you think you can trust them to follow through on a strike that is organized anonymously on the web? Most of them would just be happy to watch you sacrificing yourself for their benefit.

I tried writing seriously to the management before I walked out. Guess what the response was.

The one thing that seems to have gotten their attention was the WSJ article and complaints to various authorities. Honestly I think it can only be done after you leave but still have fresh evidence.

So here is my proposal. Let's get together as former pilots who still care, active pilots can contribute but stay out of the spotlight. Let's hit them where it hurts. The media, authorities and I think there are some interested parties in the US even in the presidential race. All of these channels are out of their control. They can't beat you once you left. The way EK is heading is a danger to the traveling public and an even bigger risk to anyone's health who is working as a pilot.

SOPS, Kap et al. What do you say? Feel free to PM me. Or just keep venting here.

Furby, go back to your dreamworld

I had a look at studies on flight crew mortality. The fact is that (so far) there does not seem to be any concrete evidence that the changes in pilot's working conditions are showing up in the mortality rates.

The good news is that (probably because of healthy cohort effects e.g. pilots are a healthier than average at the start) mortality rates are lower than the general population. The well known increase in skin cancer risk is one known factor. The other much more elevated risk is of dying in a plane accident. Given these are mainly when private flying there is a facetious argument that the harder we work and the less money we make the longer we will probably live as we wont have the time or money to indulge in this.

On a more serious note I did come across an interesting study of increased mortality in higher status jobs in Japan following the economic downturn. There is evidence that increased stress and work has had a slightly negative effect on mortality. Other factors for example being unemployed have a much stronger correlation with reduced life expectancy.

Overall I cannot (yet) see anything that would make the bean counters pay attention. I think the only hope is market forces (running out of pilots). Even there the situation only in the last few weeks does not look good with Transaero probably in trouble, Air France anouncing a long haul fleet reduction, Air Berlin and probably several also reducing their requirement for pilots.

I think a point will come where it is recognised that happy (and probably more healthy employees) are of benefit to airlines. Sadly I do not think we have reached that point yet with most of our employers. However a long term study focussing on Emirates and Ryanair would be most interesting. It is probably unlikely though to be supported by them.

turbulence…

Are you truly THAT naive???? LMAO!!!!!

K

A picture in front of an engine at an outstation....a couple of pilots got fired for that a few years ago. Always double standards with this lot.

And you are twice one...

Furby is a former EK pilot who left some years ago just to come back on his knees a few months later begging to be rehired with very little success..

He's not capable of making a point without spitting venom like a fat cobra.

tz

Well the picture was certainly taken at a outstation as I do see green in the background.

Just wondering where is the High Vis Vest

An absolutely lovely person and human being, I had the pleasure of having her as my F/O on a couple of trips.
That being said, this is a deliberate tactic of the company to portray certain things in a positive light based around the perspective of one individual, it should be viewed that way and in the context of the local big wallahs wanting more females in the workforce.
If any of you are naive enough to believe that one newspaper article=sweetness and enlightenment, then quite frankly you need to seek a professional physiatrist who will help you with your delusions.

It wasn't the photo so much as the location... CMB had been bombed not long before by the Tamil Air Force Cherokee 6s:}:p and so photography on the apron was not really a 'top 100 common sense' thing to do!

Security wasn't the reason they got fired though.

It was customer complaints - the pax saw the crew and assumed the ongoing delay to their flight was due to crew/engine selfies. "Embarrass" the brand n all that...