You are right.

Maybe I should go and write about your hypocrisy on my blog. And maybe someone from my 700.000 readers signs your petition. :)

WhatGoesUp

User CP -> Edit Ignore List

It's a relieve! :)

Phew, yes it is! Thanks :)

Well, do you want me to go away or did you fall in love with me? :)

Counter on the Wordpress doesn't count well. Number of hits is around 900.000 (approaching one million), number of readers is around 700.000.

I got hundreds of emails from people with their detailed descriptions of experience in EK. As I am a professional HR manager (with a corporate experience), this really does make me an expert. :)

Well, indeed, I didn't want to leave more than one comment in this thread, but then you started with all of your rationalisations and defence mechanisms so I just stayed. You invited me in a way.

And your hypocrisy is really fun to reveal. People who complain on a lousy treatment in UAE are behaving EXACTLY like the managers they are complaining on. :ugh:And that wouldn't even be a problem per se. People want to make some profit, that's fine. But this "we are fighting for the world's justice bs" is really irritating.

No, you kept it because you have no balls. :}

And I am still not going to insult you and tell you that you are stupid.

You want another comment? Just keep calling me "love".

Err what? Not sure those two sentences go together, love.

Oh, yes they do.

The first fact I am sure of. So no insult there. Just the pure truth.

The second thing I am not sure of, so I will not call him stupid. :) I will wait to see his next comment. :}

...yawn....

I guess being the penultimate HR manager is what got you fired?

Still can't find any hypocrisy in this thread except for "I support your efforts to achieve your goal. I sincerely do. People should sign your petition." You wrote that Nikita.

Not having posted on PPrune for a while, I must say this is keeping me entertained during some down time. I guess your blog is your life now. Sad.

I am having fun with you from my work place, actually, but can't help it. :)

I still think people should sign your petition (hope that 10.000 views of your thread helps ;) I am expert in attracting attention as well :)).

And I still think that you are bunch of hypocrities. If you find it contradictory I can't help you. You are a pilot, you should be intelligent enough to understand it, no? I mean, after all of the sacrifices you've made... But hey, nobody is perfect.:}

Ciao.

Nikita

You must be mistaken me, I didn't invest in anything in Dubai. And, my previous reply was aimed at you only, not anyone else.

You seem to be extremely bitter over Emirates and taking every opportunity to slag them. You were there for a year and a half. Many of us have over 10, 15 and 20 years seniority with the company. Emirates is not perfect, not any company is, but I honestly think that the way you are going on about it is taking the mickey. Again, you are turning every debate and topic into Emirates' fault.

Actually, you were sacked for sticking your nose where it apparently wasn't wanted. A great difference as opposed to "leaving" for raising your voice.

Which is much more than you did. :)

If you think that I didn't know that I am going to be sacked, keep thinking. I got three warnings before being sacked in four last months. All of them for "negative influence on others" (actual quote from the warning letter)and "inappropriate behaviour" (ok, first of them was for playing desktop games at my computer). I just didn't want to leave without giving a meaning to my employment in EK. :)

Normal rules and ways of thinking do not apply on me. I am actually living my philosophy, not only bull****ing about it. So every stereotype that you are trying to apply here is wrong.

Kisses to all and good luck, hope you will get your life savings back.

Ok Dragana. It seems now - that you've admitted you were sacked after several warnings - that your blog is totally pointless and meaningless!

Time to move on and let us rich, wealthy, 'screw the poor' pilots get on with making loads of money!!!

Please leave the forum...

Hahah! This was funny, actually. :D:):):) Thanks for that.

Well, warnings were for raising my voice against injustices and bullying, hence my "negative influence on others". But who cares, enough about me, otherwise you will successfully shift the subject from your loads of money and wealth. And we don't want that to happen. :)

I would leave, but I am having so much fun. :}

Three warning letters before you were terminated, it appeared Emirates after all were being rather fair and tried to give you the benefit of the doubt.

As for not sticking your nose where it's not wanted, asking a manager of their salary at an open forum is hardly proper decorum. There is a forum for every discussion. However, you need to pick the right forum at the right moment, which most of us at Emirates did (and do) which you obviously failed greatly.

Nikita,
spare us the bs. Where are the clothes that you wear manufactured? Did you ever ride in a cab in Dubai. Did you then not feed into the "Dubai System" of passport confiscations and crap working conditions for taxi drivers? Did you ever dine in a restaurant in Dubai and thereby feed into the appalling living conditions and the predicament of withheld passports of those restaurant employees? We are all guilty of that to one extent or another so spare us the "holier than thou attitude". Your cause is not of more worth than the next guy"s as you insinuate. And this from one of the guys who supportED you.
I suggest you figure out what PPRUNE stands for. Its a rumour network for pilots. We bitch and moan about salary, seniority, aircraft, the company, the industry, etc....but we don"t have blogs whining about how EK and the world have done us wrong.
In a previous thread you had said that you would stop posting on PPRUNE.
Maybe you should stay true to your word

Nikita,

I think you are on the wrong site. There are a few famous dating websites that you can spend your time and energy on if you are hoping to find a rich man!

You are right AllDaysAreAssholesDays.

In this thread I can (mostly) find only poor men. :}

Attention: HH Shk. Mohammed, Vice President, Prime Minister of the UAE, Ruler of Dubai.

EIGHTY-SEVEN (87) EMIRATES AIRLINE EMPLOYEES OWED USD 12.5 MILLION DOLLARS BY UAE NATIONAL JAMAL AUF ABDULRAHMAN LOOTAH who happens to be your wife's friends brother.

https://www.change.org/p/hh-shk-moha...concepts-vs-lo

After 5 years, multiple channels of correspondence including hand delivered formal letters requested via your office - please feel free to communicate on [email protected] to resolve this outstanding award via your DIFC & Dubai Courts.

Kind regards
Nigel

Nikita has left the building for winding up the locals.

I'm going to take Nikita's side on this one.

The years '06 to '08 were astonishing at Emirates. Every pilot was an overnight financial guru. Their wives would sing their praises over low fat, skinny, decaf, EPC discounted Cappuccino's.

There was the F1 fund, Mayfair and Hampstead, Property Concepts, and even EPI. As a group these guru's lost millions and put their families in debt.
Please forgive me if I sound somewhat uncharitable, but the saying "a fool and his money are soon parted" seems highly appropriate.

Whilst I applaud any and all efforts to retrieve the losses, I do find it somewhat disingenuous to dress the matter up as altruistic: "It could happen to you" and "Please sign our petition". The truth is you took a chance and you were robbed. Asking strangers to sign the petition of the very people who will directly benefit from it if successful is wrong and is the antithesis of altruism.

What Nikita is saying is quite right. If you want to champion a noble cause, make sure that it is not one that you will benefit from, and certainly not one that you fell foul of due to a combination of greed and ignorance.

Ask us to sign a petition for the maids, the taxi drivers, the construction workers and so on, and you may have our support. Otherwise, cut your losses and learn your lesson.

Nikita, these are but frightened men shouting in the dark and yours might well be the lone voice of reason. Carry on...

SM

4HP: Please reconsider...

The majority is not always right 4HP ! It was a back and forth and most parties were mud-slinging . If you ban one , all should be . A biased reaction .

Another vote of confidence for Nikita .

Yup, seems a bit arbitrary to me too. Passionate and emotive yes, rude and disingenuous not a bit. Doesn't matter that some noses are out of joint. Is good to watch and she has valid arguments.

I find (most of) Nikita's posts well written and well argued- often more so than some of the regulars on here!

I say bring her back.

4 HP
 

Not warranted and certainly not fair play.

Its nothing more than a discussion between parties with differing points of view. Banning one side makes us no better than the system itself, is that what we stand for?

She has the same freedoms here as all others.

The Outlaw

If truth and effective criticism are cherished by us all, then Nikita lives true to the words of David Thoreau:
"It is sad to say that you do not get a man's most effective criticism until you provoke him, for severe truth is expressed with some bitterness."

Put the lady back on the air, 4HP.

Your initial post I agree with, mostly.

However, unlike some of the other 'investment' schemes you mentioned, PC was slightly different in that it was registered through a fully recognised and legal structure. F1 wasn't, neither was Hampstead and Mayfair. Some of these schemes were offering 30% return in 6 months. That in itself should have been a red flag. The major difference with PC was the capital investment was protected, done through the DIFC system which is advertised globally to facilitate trust and therefore building further investments within Dubai from established Companies Worldwide. Those that did invest placed trust in this system. Was that so wrong? It's failure to do as advertised demonstrated that the trust was misplaced and that even the most watertight and regulated legal framework is worth nothing in the UAE if the wrong person is at the head of the food chain. Those investors learnt the hard way, others now need to be made aware.

The other difference is that Peter Margetts (Owner of H&M)was sent to jail. He's still there. He should be sharing a cell with Lootah. The justice system within the UAE is not as fair as some would like to believe.

As for Nikita being banned, good riddance. I'm all for differing viewpoints but she was being deliberately argumentative and hijacked this thread for spouting her own distorted ideological benefit. For her supporters, let her start her own thread and feel free to debate to your hearts content.

Harry

It is also interesting to note that most of the anti posters have only a few to a few dozen posts. They are not active members here!!!

Maybe management :)

Well Harry , for a group that claims to have been in the ME for so long , it is absurd that anyone could believe that the legal system anywhere in the Gulf is fair . It never has been and never will be .

So , I offer a different viewpoint , there is no protection for anyone with anything in the Gulf and if these investors were in Dubai for any appreciable time , they should have known . Even investing in a vehicle carries a risk . Most people don't even keep other than necessary working funds in the gulf , why ??? Because it's still the banks until and unless they decide to release the hold , whether or not they have any lien on you , that is , once you decide to part ways with your employer or vice versa. So even keeping your own funds in your own account is a known risk and knowledgeable adults see fit to "invest" in the mirage . Come on !!!

They can petition to the moon . They operate and have always operated on the " golden rule " principle and they have they gold .

Another western style mentality attempt to address a medieval age style of law . What the heck will a petition do ...provide them with toilet paper and you know how much use they have for that .

So good luck with that , but I also feel that Nikita was attacked and provoked as well and the punishment meted put smacks of the same unilateral high-handed-ness that you and others admonish UAE ,EK , QR and the other one about . Judge , jury and executioner .

bring her back otherwise you are not better than them

The ban is complete BS, ban both sides or none at all. As to the thread topic, I'll say it again but a bit more bluntly.....don't invest what you can't afford to lose. It's a fools errand to think that you will be treated with anything remotely approaching YOUR definition of fairness or justice. I'm not sitting here posting in smug self satisfaction, rather I'm merely shaking my head at the lengths to which people will suspend common sense when they sniff a quick buck.

I don't have a dog in this fight so surprising myself how passionate I feel about this topic. There are differing viewpoints, fair enough, but a final word If I may. The court process was the first that was taken through the DIFC. Because of the structure in which the investment was set up, I think it somewhat unfair to call those that trusted it either naive or greedy for a fast buck. Sure, they wanted to make money, who doesn't, but I'm sure many would have done a risk assessment based on the protected capital and legal protection that this investment offered over other more juicy offerings. 10 years ago, I too would have been ever so weary of trusting anything financial here but the DIFC was set up for that very reason, to provide a transparent and clear legal framework based on UK law for business and financial accountability. No doubt it was because of this, and this reason alone, that so many pilots chose to invest here rather than elsewhere.

This has been the first test case, and only so far, in which the full legal process was followed for an investment through the DIFC. It failed, despite assurances to the contrary that the system has successfully completed it's judicial obligation. This, perhaps more than the money itself, is one reason why the fight should go on.

So, I too will say it one last and final time. As many people as possible should be made aware of this petition to avoid others losing savings, regardless of whether they 'can afford to lose' that investment. Dubai PLC should not be offering something they can't deliver. When 89 of our colleagues got truly shafted, the fact that so few fellow pilots are willing to support them is disappointing. From a personal view, this case concerns me. It concerns me because as a property owner here in Dubai, the apathy shown towards this case could have massive connotations in later years. If the World press and public opinion will not highlight this unfairness, what's to stop arbitrary changes in expat freehold ownership rules being implemented at a later date? And not for the better.

Sometimes, it's the principle more than anything else that's worth the fight. It's so sad that so many can't see beyond their own circumstances and see what positive ramifications their support could have.

Harry

4HolerPoler

As initiator of this discussion I respectfully request you revise your decision to ban Nikata and allow her back into this discussion. Although I/we didn't agree with all her comments/viewpoints at no point did I find her offensive.

Although I appreciate it was not your intent your actions remind me of the authorities Property Concepts have been fighting the past 5 years+. Attempting to achieve justice in Dubai and the UAE as a westerner vs. a connected UAE national is a fight. It is my viewpoint they don't deserve any international respect until they adhere to developed world principles and rule of law. Too many people talk the talk...Practice what you preach; Action speaks louder than words.

Chief Justice of the DIFC Courts, Michael Hwang on behalf of Shk. Mohammed, Ruler of Dubai: “The DIFC Courts and Dubai Courts are both dedicated to providing world-class justice and are both committed to ensuring that judgments are enforced. The final judgment is not the end of the process for either court in our mission to provide swift and efficient justice; if that judgment is not honoured we will collaborate to enforce it and to deliver justice. If a person or company does not honour a judgment of either Court it becomes necessary for the Courts to enforce the judgment, whether by seizing property and money or, ultimately, by imprisonment.

If Nikita is not reinstated can you please elaborate on your rationality to ban her.

https://www.change.org/p/hh-shk-moha...concepts-vs-lo

For Nikita:
Robert F Kennedy claimed that ‘one-fifth of the people are against everything all of the time’.

Nigel

Wow guys, I seem to have hit a nerve. I haven't been following this thread and was reacting to a few complaints that came in.

I checked her last post and it seemed to be slagging some of the regulars off so I sent her to the cooler for a while.

I'm sorry I got it wrong; Nikita is hereby unbanned.

This is your site and I am your humble and often inattendant servant.

4HP

Thanks, 4HP!
Welcome back, Nikita.

SM

Nothing, it's called Sovereign Risk... something that PC appear not to have fully appreciated at the time.....

4HP
 

thanks




respect................


glf

Maybe I am too passionate when discussing certain subjects, so I am sorry if I have upset some of you.

It is true that I am no pilot and that this is a pilots' site, so I never saw my place here, actually. So, I doubt that I will post on this forum anymore.

To the group of people who invested their money I wish to be persistent and never to give up. People who do evil rely on the fact that others will give up or shut up at the end and that their wrongdoings will be forgotten. Never give them peace of mind.

To all the rest in this thread and beyond - thank you for being decent men and professionals.

Wish you all the best. :)

@CoinOfSilenceII

I doubt that you ever had any true respect for me. If you did, you would not call me a "Serbian check in staff" (which is how any EK manager would call me), but by my name, as my identity is not determined by the things I do for money to survive, my profession (I don't even identify with my HR profession) or my nationality. Your comment is patronizing and arrogant.

Regarding my recruiter - nobody has any reasons to punish her as I didn't make mistakes during my employment. If I do need medical attention it is due to the fact that I was harassed, pressurized, treated like a ****, dragged from meeting to meeting, punished for telling the trainer that I think that we have more choices in our lives than "take it or leave it" and threatened with prison for writing a simple letter to sheik. If I don't look like a victim it is because I refuse to be one. Experience in EK has marked me for life.

:)

Nikita
 

Finally a well balanced post. My apologies, I will delete my post. Good luck to you on your mission. :D
CoS

Back to the topic !
 

Naki good luck and God bless ... Something that can be learned here is ...
This is not the site to come to to be liked popular or respected .:ugh:

As far as this topic is concerned your point is made and the only person that can deal with this issue of power and diplomacy is the Sheik .If you can do this respectfully ,make an appointment and state your case , he will listen .

I suggest you seek a renewed council with him as he is a fair and just person who would not willingly want to see any injustice happening in his progressive Country .

Good luck

Cuberoute

Thanks for your post.

I agree with HH Shk. Mohammed, Vice President, Prime Minister of the UAE, Ruler of Dubai having the power to immediately resolve this injustice. Not only in his country but his courts (Dubai, DIFC), police, CID and legal system including local lawyers. Unfortunately there has to be a desire. To date none has been forthcoming after 5 years!

It would be virtually impossible for him not to be aware of our case.

REF:
Two years ago we formally approached the office of the ruler Sheik Mohammed bin Rashid Al Maktoum, Vice-President and Prime Minister of the UAE, Ruler of Dubai via our lawyers Al Tamimi. At the time we were clearly advised by the Rulers office to “continue following the DIFC / UAE legal system, execute the enforcement and then revert back to us”. We continued following the legal process only to meet a brick wall when it came to enforcement. When we went back to the rulers office we were told that they would not investigate our case as Jamal Lootah is not a government entity. This pointless exercise, (two formal approaches to Sheik Mohammed’s office, firstly to appeal for help, and secondly to advise we had again not achieved an enforcement) cost us an additional USD $55,000 in legal fees.

Are you speaking from experience or a position of authority. Mostly what we hear/read in Dubai, UAE is far from the truth or a persons reality.

Furthermore EMIRATES Airline chairman Shk. Ahmed (nephew of HH Shk. Mohammed, Ruler of Dubai) is fully aware of this case albeit quite likely forgot the moment I turned my back. Regardless, his advice was clear “follow the UAE legal system and justice will be served”. One would like to believe with a company that promotes itself internationally, such as Emirates, the Chairman and Chief Executive would like to do his utmost to see 87 of his senior employees (families) delivered justice. Not just internationally but in his own back yard where he has total control. Not only through himself but via his uncle Shk. Mohammed, Ruler of Dubai. It says a lot about the internal company culture and it's/his support/respect of senior employees. Talk is cheap. Trust me we have had lots and lots of talk, correspondence and meetings with high profile UAE leaders all promising action to resolve our case but after 5 years our fight for justice goes on and on and on. Individually, I am hopeful they meant well. Collectively its counted for nothing. Action is now what we need/deserve. Words are nothing without action.

In addition I recently wrote two clear non emotive emails to Mr. Chris Pykel, Emirates NZ manager as I am a New Zealand citizen as are many shareholders/employees. He didn't even have to courtesy to respond. Again company culture on display.

I can't wait for the day when we can get these people to explain in front of a television camera/media interview where they can't run away, hide behind a desk, emails, excuses or refer to 'someone else' of authority - a common Dubai tactic we have experienced over and over again. Hopefully this day is not to far away.

Nigel

Please sign our petition.

https://www.change.org/p/hh-shk-moha...concepts-vs-lo

Cuberoute,

What qualifies you to make that remark...in your third paragraph ?

I suggest you go to ABCnews...and watch the video of the G- Vaggon...driving over the man in the sand...

By a future leader from this progressive country...

And the consequences....an arrest warrant for the videographer.

Get a life...before you pontificate on 'injustice'

f.