Al, I'm not a "grumpy" controller (in general), and I find it interesting that you take exception to my opinion. It is based on working with over 100 air carriers on a daily bases, from all continents of the planet. Most of whom are in your exact position of flying to far flung places on rare occasions. From that rather broad cross section of aviators no group routinely poses the question I raised earlier. I wanted to know why you folks do?

You appear to work for a "blame" oriented organization that expects perfection so a certain level is to CYA, but why can't you get the service runway in use from the Atis? I am not going to give you a different answer. In most cases the person you are asking is a trainee who doesn't know anything about an expected construction related runway change until it happens, and then they have to change the atis.

Does that claim include Antarctica?

What about the Chinese guys who were yelled at and abused by Ground at JFK a while back? It was all over youtube. Tut-tut.... not cool!

"Emirati" - great story about the locals flying through Bahrain and using a made-up callsign... :ok::ok::ok:

Abused? YGTBSM. If one can't deal with a little NY attitude...stay (bid) away. Don't want anyone's feelings hurt after all. The sensitivities around here are extraordinary.

I do get the runway in use from the ATIS. The problem is that it changes every 2 minutes. With multiple runways at places like JFK - there's only so many changes you can prepare for. I can't comment on why this only seems to affect EK, but if it's only us doing it it can't be that much of a burden. And if the guy doing the answering is a trainee that can't read the Notams of his own airport, then it's probably good training...

For crying out loud how hard is it to fly in the US?
You see the airport? Cleared to land! By the way US controllers don't want to be told when you are established, believe it or not they have radar there.
Most of the time you are within gliding distance of a 10,000 FT runway.
I can't think of an easier place to fly in the world.

The guidelines for changing the ATIS in the US are:

2-9-2. OPERATING PROCEDURES
Maintain an ATIS message that reflects the most current arrival and departure information.
a. Make a new recording when any of the following occur:
1. Upon receipt of any new official weather regardless of whether there is or is not a change in values.
2. When runway braking action reports are received that indicate runway braking is worse than that which is included in the current ATIS broadcast.
3. When there is a change in any other pertinent data, such as runway change, instrument approach in use, new or canceled NOTAMs/PIREPs/HIWAS update, etc.

The weather is changed hourly at 51 minutes after the hour or when there are significant weather changes. Those broadcasts made that are not the regularly scheduled ATIS's are notated with the term special.

Al, I think you are engaging in hyperbole. The runways in use do change throughout the day to maximize efficiency; but not every two minutes.

Let me try a different angle. If before every flight, while you were standing at the podium prior to boarding. There is always flight information, such as the flight number, destination and time of departure. If before every leg, a passenger asked what time are we supposed to leave? What would your reaction be?:ugh::ugh:

I don't fly for Emirates, but here's my opinion.

JFK isn't that hard to figure out. When using 4/22, the inner (longer) runway is used for departure. When using 13/31, the longer will be used for departure.

The arrival atis will normally say ILS 31L/R in use, and 31L is being used for departures. That gives me a pretty good idea of which approach to brief.

Now if you ever have the displeasure of flying into Chicago...:mad:

Many of us EK jockeys have been flying into JFK and ORD before their glory-days in the sandpit. Basically no problem. Now when they operate under the "Emirati" callsign, suddenly there is a problem! Just why could that be? :ugh:
And just why would such problems accentuate since about 2 years?? :ugh::ugh:

Talking about callsigns: Don't we all like "Diiiiii Lufffthansahhh"?

Seriously Dude, that is the best argument you can manage, what a great analogy :ugh:

From a users point of view, JFK is relatively easy to operate into, apart from the changes in departure on line up, that are often not easily line select-able in our FMS. However JFK controllers are prone to occasional bouts of histrionics, the better airports simply don't do that.

We love you none the less :hug: :O

Just great DUDE, all you, "JFK controllers are so mean", cry babies will have a real fun time going into there the next few months. Ooh, they changed the runway on me, what to do, what to do? :{

I love the banter at JFK, makes the end of the day interesting, besides if they give it to you, just give it back…simples! And yes as Glofish has already mentioned, lots of us pre EK days operated in and out of Kennedy as a weekly exercise.

Not one of them said "daycimel"

Disgraceful

; >

f.

So they're ALL too lazy to do it properly??? Dang y'all that's shocking. :=:=:=

Yes, apparently it's asking for the runway in use at JFK.

Dunno matey; unless you're trying to say that it's the 380 boys! The same ones that used to fly the 340 there twice a day over 10 years ago:rolleyes:without any hoo-har!!!

Anyway - we don't all spend our lives bidding for the US! My last flight there was nearly a year ago, so even though I did used to fly for a living back over there I am now out of touch!

As a comparison, I do hear many of our guys (probably the ones so up to scratch with the US) flying to Oz still not getting the callsigns right! It's 'Emirates Four Thirty-Two' NOT 'Emirates Four Three Two'. Simple if you fly there often heh? A bit like JFK:D:D

A tad touchy, eh Whitey?

If i had implied anything, then it would be the machine, not the boys. It was not me telling everybody that EK needs quite a bit longer to set up the dugong than other operators. I wouldn't know but many buddies do and tell.

The over-complicated sops for preparations with multiple crosschecks, trap mitigations in addition to the never ending briefings of every possible arrival or departure, only lead to confusion and no one remembering the very essential.

Thus such silly questions about the "actual" actual .

Once a few of you guys (very small number) figure out that you are down there because we are up there and not the other way around, things will go much smoother.

I'm not Emirates, but work for a US Major into JFK/EWR/LGA on a regular basis. I will note that the "attitude" is ok with me, it will be dealt with immediately if it conflicts with my flight, but the ATC treatment of foreign carriers who may be new or not frequent visitors is out of line and a possible safety hazard.

Well said, WhatsaLizad. Agreed entirely. :D

Not touchy at all Gloey:} I just know your feelings regarding the KOTS... If I may say; the 380 is very easy to set up! Anyone tells you otherwise probably works for the Training Dept. or Flight Ops:ugh::ugh:

It's a simple machine:ok:

Whatsalizad? I'm just wondering, how do you find it when you visit the rest of the developed world? Do you find ATC is prepared to help you out and accommodate your relative unfamiliarity?
Genuine question btw... Not making a point.