EK DEFO A380 requirements
 

Does anybody know if EK might have to lower the minimum requirements for DEFO A380 in the next months ?
Thank you !

Nope, come do your time on the 330 first :ok:

In addition to the requirements listed on the recruitment website, the new requirements to join Emirates on any fleet are:

1. Desperate
2. Stupid
3. Illiterate

So funny and so true Transit.
Think long and hard before you join Emirates. If by some strange logic you think EK is good keep in mind it is only going to get worse.

Which is why LHR Rain is still here and obviously has no intention of leaving!:bored:

Harry

Some of us get caught in a trap. This was once a great job but the love of flying I once had has been beaten into submission by 90+ hours of back of the clock flying month in month out crossing multiple time zones whilst in terms of buying power being paid less year in year out. The early retirement (latest 60yo) I had hoped for is not going to happen. No, I didn't lose anything in the financial meltdown. And I'm ahead on property but it's not enough.

But where do I go from here? The only choice is go to China to be paid the same. Or leave the industry at 50yo+ and start a new career from scratch. Reluctantly I'm probably going to have to stick it out.

I pity the fool who joins up now.

I don't disagree that things ain't what they used to be. Unfortunately, and I suppose the sarcastic point I made with LHR Rain is that it's same story everywhere. Very few Companies are making life better and triplet320 is merely trying to improve his lot. Can't blame him for that can we.

Spending another 10 years in EK whinging and moaning will make you ill and bitter. Make the best of it and enjoy what you can. There's way, way worse out there believe me!

Harry

It's a little more difficult than what you say Harry. Those of us that came here in the better times uprooted families and children to move here while the children were young. Now those same children are in school and it is more difficult to uproot 3 or more people and alter their lives rather than just you if you are single. It's sad to see what used to be a good place to be start to head the way of Gulf Air because of people like AAR and blind followers like TCAS, who try to do everything in their power to create arbitrary rules to make our lives difficult and our schedules complete crap, take leadership roles directly over a group they hate.

Furthermore, the pay and benefits at EK has not kept up with inflation, the nonchalant attitude by management towards pilot concerns coupled with an total disregard for cost neutral quality of life improvement suggestions, and the punitive shake-the-stick and threaten to beat you if you screw up attitude, totally make Emirates undesirable. Couple all that with all the mental anguish that comes with worrying about passing a PPC every 6 months that is administered by some anal retentive kangaroo who will try to fail you for farting the wrong way because you didn't follow the OMA farting procedure, makes everything even worse. During TRAINING here, people are even afraid to ask to practice things they know they are deficient in because they are afraid they will be failed and pulled offline. Isn't that the purpose of the sim? To practice? Not at Emirates.

It is certainly better to just stay at home at a marginal job rather than to uproot everyone to live away from your home country for what you get in the COMPLETE EK package as it is now.

Although I agree w Harry that there is worse out there I do not believe that there is worse for Widebody pilots. Emirates pilots are some of the worse paid Widebody pilots in the world when you factor in everything. Qatar and the airline based in the UAE capital both have better packages than EK.
Yes things have deteriorated big time at Emirates. There is a huge pilot shortage coming and Emirates is treating its pilots this way? That is no way to build trust and loyalty to say nothing of trying to recruit new pilots.

Coming to Emirates?
 

Joining Emirates is a tough decision in the recent years, it really does depend on your current circumstance and your complete consideration of other companies first.

If you are unhappy where you are then move. Do consider though that your financial reward in Emirates will look good on paper but it is getting extremely expensive to live in Dubai and that money will be eaten up quickly. In Dubai you are a free pilot to the UAE, only money you send home is money earnt/saved, the rest is given back to them to support the economy here. Shopping IS the national past time and sport of most countries in the ME and the prices reflect that.

BIG shiny Jets = Tick
Global routes = Tick (Includes less desirable places where other airlines do not fly to).

Command Promotion = 10 years minimum
Long loooooong nights with fatigue a guarantee = Certain
FO salary = Fine if only yourself, come here with the Mrs and even worse kids and you will need to bring savings with you.
Safety first (that's protecting the safe aquasition of profits)= It is with respect to the operators professionalism that keeps us safe here.

I can go on with my list but these are a few of the highlights. Anyone coming to EK these days has not properly considered more attractive options. Your family will be paying a price for you to live your dream to fly BIG shiny jets at EK, that cost along with the current remuneration and benefits is not worth it anymore here at EK.

Be wise, weigh up all the options. Only if you are extremely limited in your offers given, then choose EK after you have all the facts and are certain you wish your family to pay that cost.

The pilot industry still has an image of Emirates that is from 10 years ago, high pay, respect from management, low living costs.....none of this is true anymore for certain. Always remember, the grass is greener elsewhere because it rains more over there and there is more SH!T on the ground making it that way.

Sorry gents, going to balance a few points here.

Firstly training. This, in my opinion, has improved slowly but surely over the last 10 years, particularly since MM arrived. There has been more of a 'training' culture rather than checking and poor instructors/examiners have been removed. If you do your work and can fly a plane, you pass the sim. To balance that, there are a few mavericks still, the worst ironically being in standards. I'm also no great fan of the head of Boeing training. His previous incumbent was far more approachable and fair. I also worry for the future somewhat with the VP of training. When he was head of this department years ago, he left his mark by cutting his budget year on year, the focus being on saving money rather than quality of training. If he supersedes MM, things will definitely deteriorate.

Second point is salary. By all means not the overriding factor for job satisfaction, far from it but we are relatively well compensated. We have to work for that most definitely but compared to other wide body airline packages, it's a bloody good take home. Here's example of 9 year line Captain as an average, no training;

Basic 45,000
housing 16,000
Flight pay 4,000 (averaged out over 1 year)

That comes in at 65,000 per month. I've not include education as it's free in some countries but for some here that send up to three children to boarding schools, it can be a massive help. There's also 12-15% Company contribution not included. Some aspects of Dubai can be expensive. others less so. Petrol is 1/5 the price compared to UK. With transport provided, you can also manage easily on 1 car. It depends what your lifestyle demands.

So, 65,000 dirhams or $17,800 per month. £10,800. If you're in Company provided then you've no bills and nothing to pay so it's swings and roundabouts. After tax, there are very few airlines out there offering such an accessible package. That's why guys stay. They do the math and it doesn't make sense. Fleet type does, however, make a significant difference in QOL issues.

Finally, I also dispute the fart and you're fired attitude, especially since JA has replaced the talking horse. There have been no unreasonable dismissals in recent times. Those that have gone have been asked to resign. They were given a choice but they accepted it because they knew they were in the wrong. If you go to work, do it professionally and to your best ability, you'll be left alone. 95% of guys manage to do that every flight.

So, in essence, perfect it isn't but as an overall package it's pretty good. My concern, though, is shared regarding the future. The problem is that individuals, such as TCAS, has his own agenda. It's a frigging big package he's on and he's not likely to surrender it over moral principles. Without a union, we are slave to the decisions of a few and it's very much a take it or leave it scenario. The hour requirement will, in my opinion, continue to decrease. This will, in effect, keep the supply and demand in balance. My biggest gripe is that our flight ops is driven by Service Delivery. Briefing crew STD - 83 minutes is now the norm, crew are rushing or missing important information to facilitate bus departure at -75. That's 15 minutes before we officially report!

I'll bet next years pay rise that the -75 becomes the new norm after we get back to 2 runway operations. That's when TCAS needs to stand up and support his own department, not Service Delivery!

Harry

At todays exchange rate in the local mall - the bank would be worse - 65,000 Dhs is worth 10,140 english pounds not 10,800. If the accommodation allowance is not paid and mostly it is not as most crew live in company accomodation and the usual medical/provident fund deductions accounted for - they're about the same as the flight pay - the monthly take home salary becomes 45,000 Dhs or 7,020 english pounds for a nine year Captain.

A year ago the pound was around 5.6 to the dirham, today it's 6.41, it's heading towards 7.0. When it hits 7.0 the monthly take home salary will be 6,428 pounds.

At the moment a few Brits (Ryanair) are trying to join and most Americans are trying to leave.

Two things. £7000? You really are working on lowest numbers for that. Even so, that's net with no mortgage or bills to to pay. That's a good disposable income. I used the housing allowance as I live out, therefore that's cash in my pocket. The option is there.

Secondly, I used an average exchange rate of 6. There will always be an element of risk and variation in currency fluctuations, that's the nature of being paid in dirhams. That's why I quoted dollars as well as sterling, the former remaining constant. It's also why I didn't include the 1800 dhs I got last month in ERP. If you want to debate the strong pound, is it not fair to include ERP too? Medical contributions for medical/dental cover for family of four is cheap for what you get. Unless you live in Cuba!

I guess how you view the salary package depends on your own circumstances and expectations. What I will say is that a mate of mine in BA is a trainer on the BA744. He's been there 24 years and takes home on average £9500. Out of that he has to pay his mortgage and his two children's school fees, bills, numerous hidden taxes too as well as put expensive petrol in his car for the 90 minute drive to work. Living near to LHR in the nicer areas is too expensive. Yes he has a final salary and no he doesn't work 92 hours a month. He does about 83-85 to make CAP. He too has some fairly dull trips.

I've done half the time here as he's done in BA. I earn more than him every month and I don't train. I consider that a decent salary whichever way you look at it.

Done with this now. Some people will always be half pint empties whatever is debated.

Harry

Lowest? I prefer realistic. You are using a number that based on past performance I don't think we will see again for some years.

I used the term 'monthly take home salary' several times in my last post. It means net.

Agreed your ERP payment - that I don't get - of 1800 Dhs (280 pounds) a month should be included in any UK comparison.

Have a close look at what your wife and children are actually covered for. Aetna is not just a money-boosting whim of the EPC.

You can. Many can't.

How do you put a price on that!

Harry picked a nine year captain and said that someone on that wage with basic math skills would probably make the decision to stay if the decision was purely monetary. An excellent choice that would be, as there is still an additional $6400 monthly to be had just to hang around, rise to the top of the pay scale, and perhaps take on a training role (15,000+8500 dirhams). He also judiciously forgot the 12,000 dirhams which are dropped into the provident fund every month for a senior man - very real money waiting for you the day you depart. So there's an extra $9600 to be had for a new total of more than $26,000 USD monthly.

Where ever else this argument takes you, have no illusions that you will be better paid somewhere else. You'd need to be an unhinged ranter and a moron to try that on - where is Mensa boy when you need him?

Whossorrynow

I've been here over 11 years myself and seen this attitude time and time again. Why can't people manage on 1 car? We did for 6 years without any inconvenience or hardship, even when I was a Captain. Pilots don't need one for work so why is one not enough? The debt that some individuals accumulate here in Dubai can be shocking as they try to compete with neighbours, the cars that locals drive or just simply treat dirhams as monopoly money.

I doubt for one minute if they were in their home country they'd be out buying brand new $40,000 4x4's as soon as they join their new airline so why do it here? As for needing two cars, they should consider the difference between need and want. Most can quite easily manage on one, they choose not too!

Perhaps if some people took financial responsibility more seriously, they might be able to retire at 60. ;)

In a nutshell. My road to delayed retirement started with a used Ford Explorer.

Do you post as harry the cod too? He was with Monarch. Or was it Air 2bob? Not Britannia though.

Revealing past employers may give the game away, but, as they say, it's all in the name! ;) Britannia, Monarch, Emirates? There are at least 4 that I know who worked for all three.

As for Harry, can't help you with that one.

For infos, I am based in China, and so fly in China most of my flights, the rest in Asia.

I strongly believe nothing can be worse than what I live right now.

I am from Europe.

Some have multiple personalities eh Habibi :ok::ok:

Regarding the 1 car thing, depends where you live. In DSO, Layan, Jebel Ali, the New Maydan aka EPC (Emirates Pilots Compound), if you are married and have kids and have only 1 car, its a recipe for marital strife. The isolation, lack of shops (newer ones for the basics) will wear couples down.

The length of time to command now is huge, when it was 3-4 years, staying at EK was acceptable. not now. 10 years for a command, hahahaha.
Most Americans I fly with under 50 are talking about moving to the US majors. Emirates needs to get real with the package.

Paywise, its not keeping up with local inflation, so no wage rise = salary cut/pay cut. ERP is nice for some of us it helps, but not all get that.

The Maydan accommodation, was the final nail for me in the future QOL issues for new joiners. If I was threatened with that place, I would seriously reconsider my position. What were they think when that place was designed.

Training, to be honest since MM has been at the helm, it has only got better. We all know certain individuals are teflon coated. Dial 2 if you get a training duty with them!

SyB :zzz::zzz: