EK - Time to command, for hopeful new joiners and us already in the crapper
 

The point to the matter is this: the company is expanding, slower at the moment due the spring slow down due runway (where else in the world does a 24 hr airport close down half of its capacity for 3 months). Additional destinations = more airplanes = more pilots. EK is not pulling out of places. Retirements of 330s were a lot slower and some will remain for a few more years. Retirements of the RR 777s did not happen as planned last year. EMH is still here with 64,000 hrs on her and she was suppose to exit stage left last summer.

Instead, EK wants to continue to expand and double it's size by 2020. That's a lot of growth. If your an FO here now with all the requirements and no letter yet, that's due to the current and short slow down. If you go down the list, there are a lot of FOs that do not have 6000 hrs Total Time. That is still a requirement. If you came here with 2700 hrs total time, you not only need the 2500 hrs in type and 36 months, but a total of 6000 total time. For half of those FOs on the list, they need to do 3500 hrs here and at an average of 700/yr, that's that's 5 years. If you were pushed to the A380, then you need the 2500 EK type, but only 700 in the A380. So add a year to that. If you came to EK with minimum time and got pushed to the A380, it will not slow you down unless you had the 2500 hrs in the 330/340. But NO MATTER what, you still have to have 6000 hrs Total Time.

The fact of the matter is that everyone going to the left seat must have the experience required. If you came here with very little, then you need to do a lot here. Just watch as the most junior Capt spot starts to run WAY up the list. The most Junior Capt now is near 2050 seniority number. That's going to go up the rank fast since most of the hiring during 2010-2013 was Ryan Air FOs and Regional CRJ FOs. If you're not in that category, sorry, wrong timing, but it should be coming fast soon.

As stated by someone earlier in this thread, out of seniority upgrades will continue to find those with min requirements.

One thing is for certain here, if you don't like how things are going right now, give it 6 months, it always changes.

American Airlines to hire largest number of pilots in more than a decade | Pilot Career News

Will these news have any effect on that matter? :confused:

Just wondering...I don't work there yet! :ok:

Rj

and lets say one day you will be a captain in EK, then what?

American is hiring mostly military guys right now. The very few civilians are flow throughs from Eagle. Doubt this will have much impact on Ek given their preferences.

Tough luck (or bad planning ahead) if you have not pulled the subcontinental hours-stunt when joining .....

There are well over 200 Emirates pilots that have applied to AA. That doesn't mean that they will all get hired or even all go but if even half go that is huge.
AA just had their first new hire class in over a decade so get in now and get your seniority number. Don't wait to be captain at EK you will just lose 60 numbers a month and what does an Emirates captain get you. 15% more work than an FO while your buddies that left for greener pastures are enjoying life.
AA has about 4000 retirements in the next 10 years. You will be a wide body captain in no time with a lot less stress and flying hours there than if you stayed at Emirates.

Where do you get that from? Current planning (and aircraft orders) is nowhere near doubling the fleet. Tim Clark has stated numerous times in the recent past that he sees the airline at around 270 aircraft by 2020. We have ~210 now.

See here for a recent statement:

By 2020, we will have more than 250 aircraft serving some 70 million passengers across six continents

That'll be about 2.6%, and they won't all leave at the same time, maybe over two years? That's 1.3% attrition per year. That's nowhere near huge. Europe is still contracting and will be for a few more years. That'll more than make up for that.

I think the biggest recruiting draw will be China, but there you'll trade Dubai for China. Not a change a lot will be willing to do with their families unless there will be commuting contracts in large numbers.

I have been here almost 10 yrs and last year (2013) I moved up 52 numbers and that is pilots ahead of me. I did not check how many left junior to me.
H.R told us that there are 75 pilots with their resignations in now. Some of them could always pull their resignations but that has to shake the recruiting dept a little especially when we see what is trying to join. Shocking I'm told by recruitment pilots.
With Expo and other expansion projects coming it is only going to get worse for us.

EK - Time to command, for hopeful new joiners and us already in the crapper
 

Management washup today. Said 35 777 upgrades this fiscal. (Apr). Then 230-300 A380 FO new hires and same as much with the 777 for a record hiring year.

No more DECs and if they have to will start going up the list to find FOs for fast track Capts.

15 new 777s including 2 new 77Fs. They are considering retiring 5 airplanes but that's TBD.

However they said everything is driven my Commercial and when they release the new plans for increased destinations, all of this will change.

As for Innocentbystander above, EK has always understated their intentions. Or else you give away your plans to the competition. This airline has nearly doubled its size every 7-10 years. Clark has stated even on ICE that you can expect the same type of expansion from EK that you've seen in the past. EK carried 34 million passengers in 2012. So 70 millions sounds like doubling. Yeah, a bunch of A380s but a bunch of 777s too.

Yeah, it's more like 30 upgrades in financial year 2014/15 and 90 new hires on the 777.

But whatever, you seem to hear only what you want to hear. Good luck with that.

It is a rumor forum after all, who wants to deal with reality, right? ;)

Loss of ULR's slowly produce a surplus ,calendar year 2014 net growth @ 7-9 777 and only 30-35 upgrades . Over half of the 380 coming this year are the new higher take off wt, so more of the ULR 777 flights going 380. For planning purpose listen to IB and not MS( no offence) ,people tend to only hear what they want to until it's too late.

Runways do wear out and have to be replaced. Heathrow had one of theirs done last year. But they, like most of Europe, have the luxury of doing it at night when airports shut. Dubai never shuts.
The option to do it in 10-12 hour time periods was examined but it was decided it was less disruptive to do it by closing during the quieter traffic months in the summer (cause it's too damned hot to holiday here).
It's not just one runway being done, the Southern Runway has to close to allow work on the RETs which are being improved. Then the northern runway gets resurfaced, RET work completed and an end around taxiway.
This is a truly MASSIVE project and to complete it with only 80 days of closure is exceptionally challenging.

Minor point BUT;

Not all the 777ULRs being replaced by 380 will result in said Boeings going to non ULR cities.

A lot of US expansion coming next financial yr and beyond once these aircraft are replaced by 380 on the legacy US routes.

Look for MIA ORD EWR DTW ATL PHL (that's my order guess) in the next three years, not to mention up-gauging at least LAX to twice daily and possibly another in Texas.

Not sure on LATAM, seems quiet there re. rumors.

As has been mentioned numerous times EK finds a way to keep on marching up...and I believe attrition will continue to increase as long as the petty BS Japanese torture from above continues.

f.

Machspeed wrote:
and then wrote:
So which is it?

That's what they said at the washup.

Both. He didn't give numbers. That would tip the hat.

So well just wait and see. Which is all we can do anyway.

Mach please tell us you watched every new movie, listened to every top 100 Album, replayed all the Family Guy episodes THEN decided to catch up with Sir T on ICE ......?

Lmao!! Actually listened as my IFE was frozen and waiting for pursuer to reset.

Been here a bit already. It's those guys that have been hired in the last few years that are looking at 7.

Frozen ICE - sounds about right :)

How miserly airlines created their own pilot shortage

Rj

It's an interesting post, just wondering though - since the 380 is flavour of the month these days and it's taking over a lot of the ULR routes will this continue? If EK starts going to new destinations in the USA will they start these with the T7 or straight to 380?
Not that it seems likely but if the 777X turns up in say 2021 wouldn't that be the new flavour of the month and therefore command focus shift to that? So maybe new hires who join now might just get a command around then????

No, BRJ...

Emirates will endeavour to put what they see as the most commercially appropriate aeroplane on a route at any time.

If they open a route with a 330 but the demand immediately peaks for a 380 to become a suitable airframe, then as long as they have the aeroplane availability (which is the problem), a 380 it will become.

There are myriad other issues but just because an aeroplane is new and shiny doesn't mean that they ignore all the other fleets...the reason this is happening with the 330/340 is because a) they're too small for the majority of routes b) their cabins are out of date and unsuitable for premium (ie first world) routes. As they were always planned to be departing, the company delayed refurbs, the problem now is that they can't get rid of them as they have nothing to replace the capacity with.

In an ideal world, EK won't leave a fleet short in order to fly the shiny new one if they need both equally, however not having enough pilots to do this, they have to spread who they have out to fill the most valuable seats - at the moment, the 380 - as it can take the most passengers.

It's the daily news!!
 

Every day new rumours about the 330/340 fleet. It's become a joke. Operational plan changes daily. New joiners in 2012 were told 6 months 340 n 1 year to 380. 2 years running and all of them, i say again every single one of them is still on the fleet because they started hiring direct 380 fo's.
Recently the word in the market is emirates is not going to hire any more 380 fo's, but even in the latest interviews every one is being told that they will be flying a380 straight away.
Now that makes me wonder, they definitely making up some part of it.
No one knows what will happen and thats the truth. You can speculate as much as you like but the odds are as good as going to the tarot card reader.
And guys on the 330/340 fleet are easily looking at a 8-9 year mark for command if 350 order is cancelled.

The latest rumour is that only 30 upgrades are being planned this year on the B777. I'm counting and will take maaaany summers to get mine!

A340 guys are being screwed over with no-more-upgrades on their fleet, and much junior guys going to the whale jet for "operational reasons".

Just an update on how miserable is life for them (was just talking to one of them at a BBQ the other day)
- 1 Reserve month every 5 months
- Forced leave in May 30 days (no leave this financial year with family and kids)
- No upgrades on the fleet
- No 380, being bypassed by junior guys A330 only
- Rosters up to overtime threshold with 10-15 night turns in cases
- Instructors being initially not allowed to bid for leave and now have been forced.

Happy days!

Agree
 

Farmboy,
I did see one of my 330 friends roster he had close to 90 hours, and 7 days off. There were not any "rest" days either. I was shocked. Working that schedule with a day or two off here and there, he is not long for this world. I tell my non flying friends the reason I have 14 days off a month (I do not work for EK) is because I work Easter and Christmas and my Kids birthdays, and through the night on occasion. Those days are compensation for everything else this job takes from me. I can not imagine 7,8,9 days off coupled with 5 allnighters. I would be dead before age 50.

EK has to hire FO's direct on the 380, nobody who does some research would join the 330

5 all nighters is pretty standard, in fact bottom bid group is usually entirely composed of night turns - I didn't log a day flight for six weeks at one point last year! Also managed eight consecutive rosters without a layover.

Our only hope is that some new recruits do accept a stint on the 330 in order that those of us currently mapping the night time Arabian Sea can escape to the 380 at some point in the future. Currently my predicted course date will see me completing two and a half years of some of the worst rosters I have ever experienced and there is no guarantee that that date won't slip back if the 'golden boy' recruitment direct 380 resumes.

I know it makes commercial sense but it is pretty galling to watch a load of short haul easy/BA/Iberia pilots going straight to the top fleet when I'm getting up at 1am every other night to go to India...

On a related note the lowest guys on the 340 are scheduled for 380 courses around January I believe. Having heard that the 343 is not scheduled for retirement for a couple of years I wonder who will fly it? Seems to me one of a few things will happen:

A) Current 340 guys will be kept back. Current 340 guys get screwed

B) Experienced 330 guys will be kept back and CCQ'd. Current 330 guys get screwed

C) Any poor suckers who join onto 330 this year get cross trained but will there be any/enough of them?

I'm betting whichever option gets exercised somebody will be getting screwed, seems to be standard EK MO....:ugh:

Possibly a No Poaching agreement?