Correcting some misconceptions
 

In response to the statement that Saudis are not interested in moving to the left seat, I'd like to point out a few facts.
I am Saudi and have been a FO with Saudi airlines for 9 years. I flew md90's for 2 years than moved on to the 777. Just last year I was asked by the company to take the ATP test in preparation for command training... Which I immediately did along with a lot of fellow colleagues.
However, training was put on hold and priority was given to foreign direct hire captains. 60 of them. (The average number of captains per class is 4... There is anywhere between 4 and 8 captain upgrade classes a year. You do the math... It's been more than a year now and myself and my colleges are still waiting for training to resume for Saudi nationals. The excuse is the magic statement "company requirements" and We have no choice but to accept it.
The average time for a Saudi to become a captain In our company is 11 years. This is very well known. In the 777 fleet alone there is about 90 Saudi FO's ready and willing to move to the left seat. The other fleets 330 and 747 have probably half of that number ready... This misconception that Saudis are not interested in becoming captains however, is based on the fact that a certain number of senior first officers " mostly ex flight engineers " that became pilots when 3 man crew aircrafts were phased out didn't have the minimum number of hours required for upgrade (4000 hours) seemed like they weren't interested.
A few others actually went for the training and did not make... So they became permanent FO's. These guys have 30 plus years of service and are very close to retirement.
Anyways, please before you go around saying things that you do not completely understand, do your homework. We take pride in our airline being multi cultural and friendly and we welcome all people with their various backgrounds and levels of experience without being judgmental.
I hope this clarifies the issue.

Safe travels to all.

It is true. Last year, there were 4 captains in my class. 1 Saudian, 3 foreigners. 2 foreign captain returned home.

I never heard about Saudian who failed Captain training;););)

Airlines hire too many direct foreign captains but only a few survive. How many of 60 have stars on shoulders?

Habibi, You just forgot to mention about number one foreign captains priority to pack theirs belongings after 8-9 month of hard training.;););)

I totally agree with you. As a foreign Captain who has been flying with extremely high Quality and highly experienced Saudi First Officers for the last few years, I find it very surprising that the company only trickles them into command positions. At the same time furiously recruiting Captains from outside the company.

I left Saudi Arabia 11 years ago as a captain, after 27 years. I can vouch Saudi first officers (always exceptions, of course, but not many) being of high quality and well trained (unless things have changed drastically in the intervening years). The emphasis should always be upgrading locals FIRST, and use direct hire captains from outside only on an emergency basis. I think your company is making big mistakes on this issue. Sam

And therefore, I presume Sam that you must be a Saudi national ... :ugh:

Nope he isn't.

Sam, what aircraft did you start and finish on?

Started on L1011, finished in Special Flight.

Hey guyscan anyone share what life is like on B777 in Saudi in terms of rostering and what type of destinations the B777 flies to etc?? Do you manage to get a string of days off to go home every month if so how many can you expect..??
Any info would be most welcome..

Thanks very much...

This is not a commuting contract.... 5 days!

Thanks Mutt, yeah I know its not a commuting roster. Was just trying to gauge what type of flying I can expect on the B777 and what are the rostering practices like in Saudi. ie lots of night turns and what type of regions does the 777 fly to.. I did look at their site but seems to alot of change of equipment on routes??

777 flies to most continents within the route structure, so it goes from 1.25 hour Riyadh trips to 16.5 hr trips to LAX. But there is no guarantee that it will stay on any medium haul European route, it has already lost Manchester and half of the Paris flights to the 787.

Gone are the days when Flight Operations management dictated which aircraft flew which route based on their desire to frequently visit that destination for personal reasons.

Sounds like abit of a disorganized operation?? Maybe I am wrong.. Maybe might be abit silly of me looking to jump out of the frying pan(EK) into the fire(SV)?? Sounds like the 777 does turns along with ULRs like we do here in EK.. Just trying to think what would be better in Saudi over the HUGE MESS we have here in EK apart from a little more money?? How many hours on average do you get rostered a month and are the rosters constructed nicely ie enough time to rest between trips??

Jetkopite, 777 is a nice fleet here. Money is good. Nice mix of med haul , long haul and domestic. Enough of Time off between flights. I have compared Saudia rosters with EK. It's definitely much better than EK. Any flight more than 8hrs is augmented, unlike EK. Just that you won't find Jeddah great & the airline on the whole is not as organized and advanced as EK. Otherwise it is a people oriented company. 5 BDO is guaranteed with one acm travel a month. Use this place to make money and go home on your days off.

What made you think that I left ,Mutt. I'm alive and kicking, doing my line training.:ok: Will fly with you soon. :8

It was 7oodaz who left.

Apologies, got you mixed up with another 777 newbie.

(Original message deleted to avoid creating further confusion :\:\:\)

hey morning Aloha sir,would appreciate some information about the screening process in Saudi Airlines,what to refer in written,pilot aptitude test,interview & sims....

I suggest you start with changing your PP name first:O:O

Beware of false promises
 

Refund of screening can take up to a year (if they give it to you !) you will be paid a good salary doing training but it will be similar to try and get a type rating on the space shuttle. You will have to learn all by memory (including the notes). The training can last up to 9 months (of stress). (A senior A380 Captain has failed the training after many months of training!!).

In the contract that you will sign they promise a lot of things but they will not keep many of them. They are supposed to give you a villa but there are people with family still living in a hotel after a year. They just made of the contract scrap paper, they unilaterally decided to remove the yearly 3% bonus and to commence paying with the gregorian calendar (that will be at least 8000 $ less a year, much more over a 3 year contract period).

They are by contract supposed to give you 30 days holiday in two tranches but they don't , they give you 30 in one go depending on seniority, so at the beginning you will get it when they assign you any time of the year.

Forget commuting you cannot choose your five days off as this is done on a bid system and with low seniority at the beginning you will get what they give you.

They just hiked the visa fee so you will pay a lot of money to bring family over.

So the advise is look elswere if you have other choices.

Ksa is not an easy place to live !!