Saying your Squawk code.
 

Hey boys and girls, I don't know where this got started but saying your squawk code when changing frequency's is NOT required!!! Neither is saying what position you are at or going to!!!
From the Middle East to most places in Europe you are under radar coverage. The controller knows your code, where you're at and where you are direct to. So lets just stick with what is required.
Call sign and altitude.
Cheers.

Correct, unless you are entering Iraqi or Indian airspace.

Oh well non standard ICAO radio pretty much rules in the middle east.

What to do?

Often get asked our squawk code when checking in with a new station. Especially in Cairo FIR, which is radar controlled. Often in Riyadh FIR which is radar controlled, and even Bahrain FIR when its really busy. So one doesn't need to mention it when checking in, but just because its a radar environment, doesn't mean the controller might not require it at some stage.

I get asked for a wind check occasionally too, it doesn't mean I tell every controller the wind.
If they want the squawk code they can ask for it. I flew from the UK to AUH today thru Iraq and Bahrain and didn't say or was never asked my code once.

Checking in with the UAE, you better stick to callsign, and FL, or passing and cleared level.
Although recently they also get busy with the" one one thousand, eleven thousand" thing, which I never got straight.:sad:

It's technical, but between certain units we are required to identify you, and other units we are not. eg between UAE and Bahrain, no need for ident. Between Bahrain and Kuwait, ident required. And it is enforced by the 'higher ups'.
Ideally, pilots would know when to include the squawk with check in. However, it's not reasonable to expect that as the rules of wherefors and whys are pretty stupid. So, Togalk, if guys want to say their squawk at every change, let them. It actually helps us when busy because we don't have to go back and ask for the ident or 'say squawk'.

If you are bored and want to know why: The agreement between Bahrain and Kuwait does not require radar link sharing, it is just a 'nice to have' so it is not guaranteed. Just because it is functioning 99.9% of the time doesnt matter. Kuwait may turn off their radar at any time without telling anyone else, and Bahrain can only see inbound traffic from Jeddah/Riyadh via the Kuwait link. However, the overlapping covering of each others radars in UAE and Bahrain means permanent and constant radar handoffs.

One thought, could it come from the large stream of Latin American pilots that came to the M.E over the past +/-2 years? (not meant negative, just a different way of operating in that region compared to the M.E.)

Ferris it's not a big deal here yet, but in Europe, it adds to congestion on the radio.

Yes, Varmint, is adds to the congestion.
How many flights do you have flying over Europe at any given moment?
And how often do any ATC controllers over Europe ask for your squawk code when checking in with them? Almost never.

How many flights do it? Only the Middle East and Indian carriers do it!! Thats why I started this post in the first place.

Jeppesen Air Traffic Management 4.11.3 Radiotelphony Procedures for Air-Ground Voice Communication Channel Changeover

When so prescribed by the appropriate ATS authority, the initial call to an ATC unit after a change of air-ground voice communication shall contain the following elements:
a. designation of station being called;
b. call sign;
c. level, including passing and cleared levels if not maintaining the cleared level;
d. speed, if assigned by ATC.

Like i said earlier I get asked for a wind check OCCASIONALLY so does it mean I should just decide on my own to tell every controller the wind? Its NOT required DONT say it!!!

The guys here have a hard enough time just doing basic radio airmanship. Like waiting a few seconds after switching frequencies before talking, or saying your passing and cleared flight levels. Lets not confuse them any more.

CR is correct, adding your own little thing like saying "The" Emirates, or "THE" Etihad or saying your squawk just adds to the congestion.

And, is it necessary to give callsign on every transmission? Establish comms, yes. Two way established, not necessary. When handed over after a long period of two way, is it necessary again ? My CAP 21 well worn & after 38 years. I thought I knew it all but got a right old chewing out on yesterday's Line Check ! ATC told me " Continue now with.....on......." I kept saying, for example, 'Frankfurt on ......, cheers mate, have a good'n". Oh and finally, Checker admonished me for continually saying "Roger, wilco". He told me that "Roger " means, I understand & will comply. "Wilco" means I will comply. So, I was saying, in effect, " I understand & will comply, I will comply", followed by a unruly "Cheers mate, have a good'n". Oh dear. Nearly grounded for R/T refresher Training. Think the flying went ok though !

Problem is, each and every country (and, to an extent, unit) has their own rules - which, in certain parts of the world are a) written by cretins and b) enforced, to the letter, by the same cretins (and their minions). Little leeway exists. It's nothing to do with being picky!

That makes a long story short. It's all about adhering to the rules guys! I don't have to say this, do I?:suspect:


Seriously?!! A check captain said this??:ugh:

Roger: I have received your message..ONLY received it!
Wilco: I have understood your message and will comply with it!

Now your Checker is the one who should be grounded for R/T!

I have just left the ME and know that many controllers ask you to confirm your squawk ( not UAE I hasten to add ) . When you are tired it is just easier to say it . Perhaps the various ATCs could agree on this procedure ?

"Say Squark and verify level" whilst wobbling one's head............every bleeping freq change


But if you want peeps to stop clogging up the airwaves can we PLEASE stop the Salaams, Giddays, Morning, Checkin' in, etc etc etc and any other polite HOO HA.

At least a squark code has some point!

Coat , hat , door!

I did ask the very same questions directly to ATC controller the other day. Answer: "It is not required but it helps..." so why not?

Why not? Cuz it's not required and it adds to the congestion. That's why not.

If you are all so concerned by these minor RT points or inaccuracies I suggest you get a hobby or a stiff drink!!

Who cares - you are making the job harder than it is!! (possibly less enjoyable if you are a check airman and this is the ****e you debrief about)

Saying G'day, Morning, evenings salams whatever is great.

If you are more worried about RT procedures because some pilots say the squark to eliminate certain FIR stations asking it in the next call, get a life a I say. Clogging up the frequency? I think not, your aircraft will not stop flying if you cannot make a call to the appropriate state at a boundary crossing due to congestion!!! They'll get too you eventually.

Is this what flying has come down too? Get a life and enjoy aviation for what we started out to to, fly, and enjoy the craft we work hard at!!

I know the Aussie's and Kiwi's are pedantic about RT but at the end of the day with so many nationalities flying around the middle east does it really matter if squark is stated....

so next time Bahrain asks me for my squawk because I didn't give it to them on first contact - I'll refuse and say TOGALK told me not too because I'm clogging the freq :ugh:

As someone said earlier this would depend on where it is being done. Every five minutes over Europe with Maastricht handovers is probably not the place. On the other hand what might help the next controller is to know what short-cut/direct routing a previous controller has put us on. This is hardly ever mentioned on the handover but amounts to a reclearance from the original flight plan. Aircraft are often heard over Europe being asked where they are tracking to but I don't ever recollect being asked for my squawk.

Why do people insist on requesting the Flight Level when asking for ATC clearance away from homebase? Very few Ground Delivery units around the network want to know what it might be - although as we know Dubai does. Why? It's just luck if we get the level we want and Bahrain etc don't seem to know what level we might have requested anyway, so apparently the message is not being passed along either. It just blocks the Delivery frequency with unnecessary verbage. If other ATC units don't want it why does Dubai? And when will Dubai get PDC/DCL?

And then there's Dubai Approach inbound...